>Chevrolet - cars
>Pontiac - actually be the performance brand
>Buick - new ideas
>Cadillac- Slowly but surly working, no change except for improvements
>Hummer - no necessary, both the H-1 and H-2 could be special order ides along with the truck versions.
>Saturn - value priced cars, that work, let the cobalt to the boost thang... i thought saturn didnt do the latest fads....?
>GMC - dont drop it, good cars, good ideas, but they need to do the truck thing for gm and be the only one doing the truck thing
>Daewoo - i agree with jammit, sell
>Saab - fund them with money from daewoo lol... they have very nice cars and work
>Subaru - I wouldnt sell them... give the cobalt awd =)
>Suzuki - drop or sell to help saab and to get awd in the cobalt
now there goes the alignment of the branches.... now theres still more to do. Fire people they dont need. The service department at the local chevy is HUGE and theres all kinds of people running around appearing to do nothing. They have girls doing just cashier. Why not let the tech that signed u in and the estimate foot you the bill as well? Atleast i would have gotten a good explination on what got fixed. And When we pulled up 4 salesman came up and helped us park and tried selling us a car. Do they need 4 doing nothing? Thank god they only make commission. Thats just on the local dealership level.... im sure theres fat everywhere.
And as far as being over priced for what u get that may be true. The prices dont need to be changed... I would change the quality. Simply make everything better so that paying a few extra g's wont be a problem. Make people sit in your car and go whoa! Then they will have something to brag about.
Gm should make the toyota prius of the truck world. One thats hybrid and charges itself. But for the sake of trucks and there purpose maybe have a haul mode where it may not necessarly be about saving fuel but getting the job done.
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98' Pontiac Sunfire SE
General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM), the world's largest automaker, has been the global industry sales leader since 1931.Founded in 1908, GM today employs about 324,000 people around the world. It has manufacturing operations in 32 countries and its vehicles are sold in 200 countries. In 2004, GM sold nearly 9 million cars and trucks globally, up 4 percent and the second-highest total in the company's history. GM's global headquarters are at the GM Renaissance Center in Detroit. More information on GM can be found at www.gm.com.
its off the about the cobalt getting ready for the 05 season.....
i just thought it looked like an appropriate paragraph to quote for this topic. They sound all proud and cocky
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98' Pontiac Sunfire SE
^^^and there inlies the whole problem. too much pride.
Weasel is right they need to go down...hard. and either learn from their mistakes or let Toyota buy them. alot of people think that's a bad thing, but toyota is known for effeceincy (sp?) and they would clean house like no other. i'm willing to bet if Toyota bought GM they could turn that company around faster than Mercedes did with Chrysler. of course now Dailmer is messing up DCX as a whole. but the quality of the vehicles are far better now than they were before Mercedes bought them. as for how ugly they are that's not a quality issue.
LOL
after being ripped off by GM for the same warranty & service issues someone else said, i'd personally love to see them fall flat on their smug little faces.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
JAMMIT wrote:^^^and there inlies the whole problem. too much pride.
Weasel is right they need to go down...hard. and either learn from their mistakes or let Toyota buy them. alot of people think that's a bad thing, but toyota is known for effeceincy (sp?) and they would clean house like no other. i'm willing to bet if Toyota bought GM they could turn that company around faster than Mercedes did with Chrysler. of course now Dailmer is messing up DCX as a whole. but the quality of the vehicles are far better now than they were before Mercedes bought them. as for how ugly they are that's not a quality issue.
As I said before, go look up the history of GM/ Toyota's collaboration at a manu. plant in California. When Toyota as allowed to run it under an agreement, efficiency and employee productivity surged. When it was handed back over to GM... well... here we are today. Very good story about how GM failed to learn from Toyota years ago.
~ 98 Cavalier
Don't kill Saturn..
They actually make better cars, and they seem to sell fairly well (there's a ton of Vue's around my area).. It's when I see an Aveo, then the pontiac version of it, the Wave.. Same car, different badge.. Same for most of their trucks, and Mini Vans.. It's crap like that, that's costing them so much money.. And they also have to improve their entry level vehicles.. Entry level vehicle buyers of today are the SUV/truck/sports car buyers of tommorow. If the entry level cars are crap, people will get ticked off and go elsewheres. And sence Japaneese/Korean/etc are making better trucks (then they used to build) people won't need to ever buy domestics for any kind of vehicle..
I hope this made sense.. It's late and I'm stuck at work..
Dark blue 2002 Z24, 2.4 Ltr.
Chrysler has done a good job of trimming the fat.
^^^^oh, i don't doubt that. the cars are getting uglier, but the company is a smooth oiled machine compared to what it was. isn't a shame U.S. auto makers can't get their act together without the help of a foreign investor? Ford is the only one that's trying to, but i think GM can't even admit there IS a problem....and that's their number 1 problem.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
JAMMIT wrote:^^^^oh, i don't doubt that. the cars are getting uglier, but the company is a smooth oiled machine compared to what it was. isn't a shame U.S. auto makers can't get their act together without the help of a foreign investor? Ford is the only one that's trying to, but i think GM can't even admit there IS a problem....and that's their number 1 problem.
??
i think the success of the svt program is why gm brought back the ss
to compete
i think they know something is up
just because they dont show it on the outside
i dont think they want the masses to panic
if they showed weakness that would scare potential buyers away
Quote:
let Toyota buy them. alot of people think that's a bad thing, but toyota is known for effeceincy (sp?) and they would clean house like no other.
I think it would be a bad thing. Toyota would probably make GM cars all rice burners like theirs are, that's not what GM is about. I think GM just needs to look to other manufacturers and copy their plan. They need to cut out the excess like Chrysler did. GM used to be the trendsetters, but now they try to compete with what other companies are already doing (like slapping a crappy SC worth maybe 30hp on a car and calling it an SS to compete with SVT) rather than just making something innovative. They need to spend less money on advertising and use it to clean up their slop.
And I agree with all the others that said they'll never buy another GM vehicle... Every time something has potential, they manage to find a way to make it crap. At least the jacked-up prices of German vehicles give you some quality engineering, and the Japaneese vehicles are highly dependable. Ford brought out the new Mustang, dodge brought out the SRT-4, but what has GM brought? The Cobalt is a joke.
I agree.. With todays standards, the Cobalt is a joke.. Same goes with the G6..
Guy at my work bought a Sunburnt Orange Cobalt.. Dealer slapped a "Cobalt RS" badge on the lower part of the door.. It just screems Cavalier..
Dark blue 2002 Z24, 2.4 Ltr.
I really don't give a @!#$ about GM as far as im concerned. The quality of the cars mostly are lower grade than imports and some other domestic car companies and they don't seem to care. People want us to buy Domestics to keep the economy going but doing that means for us to settle for lower quality cars. I will never buy another Domestic unless they show me something. Toyota, Honda,Lexus, VW, Audi,BMW, Mazda, etc. all make great cars. They make them will overall quality craftmanship and interior builds. These are just a few of the reasons why GM has failed as of the last decade and will continue to fail in changes are not made.
The Silver J......Ridin' Clean....
no econmy = you cant afford to by cars
but w/e i dont care
wont affect me much
ill still get payed
I read this article the other day on MSNBC, and as bad as I hate to say it this guy is right on all aspects, esecially where he mentions that GM need to reduce its name plates and number of models per nameplate of which he used the Buick Lacrosse for an example. Which Gm currentley has three diffrent Models Or trim packages for. And the fact that they need to focus on better Build quality and lower prices on the Models they produce now.
Chevrolet started going down hill when they stopped making the Camaro! They need to bring it back with a retro look. I guess I am asking for to much :o(
adding to this:
when i went shopping for new car last year ,i was looking at gas consumption because gas prices, i was comparing the compact cars in deferents brands ,I was amaze of the deference
gm optra 27mpg city driving, wow ! my grand am v6 dose the same .
gm cavalier 31mpg city driv
most were at that level (kia,hyundai,dodge,mistubishi,mazda,ford...)
best were
sentra 32mpg city
civic 35mpg city
corolla 40mpg city
lease deference was also amazing
cavalier 48month 24000kms per years tax includes =290.55 0 down (Canadian price)
corolla 48month 24000kms per year tax included =280.52 0 down (Canadian price)
better gas mileage and lower lease amount because depreciation being lower on Toyota's then gm's
I say that unless Buick comes out with another grand national (or similiar) and stops making commercials that belong on the oxygen network they should get canned.
yes there is a huge market for trucks but there are what 26 models of colorado's. c'mon that's just making 20 gallons of crap fit into a 10 gallon hat. we don't need hummer because we already have suburban.
the impala, monte carlo, grand prix, g6 are all a couple tubes of JB weld from being the same car.
stop f*cking rebadging, if you put RS (rally sport) on something it damn well better be something i'd take down the colorado cog.
adversite that new saab, a 2 liter turbo, 6sp, and all wheel drive.... people might buy it if they knew about it.
the cobalt has the face of a civic si and the a** of a neon.
make a real performer that can kill everything in the strainghts and corners, and get's 45mpg and they will win.
no, the camaro didn't kill GM, the car actually has been on life support since 1998. they dramatically reduced the production output of the car toward the late 90's. the insurance companies killed the camaro by making them nearly uninsurable to it's key market...young men. it's one thing to pay 3 or 4 hundred a month on a camaro car payment...it's a whole 'nother thing when you tack on a $200+ a month insurance payment as well. then raise the insurance dramatically for every minor door ding or 10mph over ticket you get in it. insurance comanies killed the muscle car plain and simple.
GM put it's self in a financial tail spin for one simple reason....they are stupid idiots. period.
>they do not listen to customer demand.
ok, so supposedly they had a new cavalier design all ready to go in like 2001. but scrapped it because the "customer clinic" hated it. customer clinic? who was this clinic? not J-body enthusiast. when they design a new corvette do they bring in a Geo Metro "clinic" to critiqute the design. no they bring in people who love the car and hear what they want. nobody from any j-body circle was ever approached to assess the next small car platform or help give ideas for what the market wanted. because if they did we wouldn't have the Cobalt, we'd have the Astra direct from Opel...because THAT's the car we want.
>they do not appreciate customers or even loyal customers return business.
Ian Lacey blew his motor, someone on here ratted him out. they almost denied him service. does it matter that every car he owns is GM? no. does it matter that upper level GM muckity-muck reps oogle his car at car shows? no. just that he blew his motor and now he is a peice of @!#$. everyone that owns a GM car has a horror story about GM Goodwrench's shady, rude, lazy, and incompitent service. most everyone on this site alone probally has at least 2 or 3 horror stories about GM service. because it's ok to go into the dealer with a hepped-up Corvette or Z28 with snarling exaust, and rims and everything aftermarket under the sun, and tell them you have an engine knock. they look at it and fix it. you go to that same dealer in a Z24 or Sunfire and have it tricked out just the same as the F & Y bodies....and poof your a drag racer, and your this, and your that. suddenly the engine knock isn't a default, it's you, or something you did or put on your car.
i was once chastised by a service writer for modifing my transmission, and because i modified my transmission my warranty wouldn't cover the snapped clutch cable or whatever broke 9 months after buying it brand new.
what did i do to modify my tranny you ask? i went to Pep Boys, spent $30 on a leather shift knob and put it on my car. a $30 shifter knob from Pep Boys is considered a modified transmission!? NOT on a Camaro or Corvette....but on a j-body apparently it is. and there enlies the problem. the entire way i was treated like a punk kid at 30+ years old by GM service every time i went in for ANY service, is the number one reason i would never buy GM again. and now they lost future business with me, and sadly i'm not the only one that feels this way. but they don't care.
>the build quality and technology is dated and sub standard...unless you spend upwards of $40,000, then you get a car that is at "average" bulid quality and only 5 year old technology.
if you don't spend good money on their higher end (GM and high end in the same sentence is a joke by the way) products then you get warmed over lame product. Aveo?
J-body? Malibu classics? even the Cobalt is a heavily watered down version of the last generation Astra. why not build a good car price it right and put it out there? not dumb down your product line for Americans. i don't get it. the new Malibus are amazing cars in europe, don't remeber the Opel name but the Malibu isn't half the car it's Euro brother is. the same goes for the Cobalt and the Astra. No other international manufactuer "dumbs down" their product line for North America as badly and extreme as General Motors.
>GM doesn't know dick about marketing, or following automotive market demands.
The Cobalt SS comes to the market 6 years after the 'peak' of Sport Compact phenomenon. the Sport Compact market is leveling out now and NOW GM decides to give it a try. and although it's an ok car, Dodge, Ford, Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, and Nissan have had factory tuners in their line-up for a few years now and in some cases are heading into their 2nd generation of those models. the Cobalt is mechanically speaking essentailly just a bigger heavier J-body. nothing on the Cobalt is a night and day engineering change from the the j-body platform. they have similar suspension set-ups, engine and transmission set-ups, although NOT the same car mechanically the Cobalt is nothing more than updated J-body technology...just more of the same. when theatres were packed with both real tuners and ricers to see the fast and the furious. GM laughed and called it a silly trend and continued to push trucks and launch the new Trailblazer and a new Hummer and even a friggin truck roadster.
the market cried economical performance cars, GM pushed trucks. now comes word their about to do the same thing again, and can't understand why they're having money problems.
at $3.00 a gallon gas, the market is again changing, but not good old GM they're going to push....NEW trucks! fantastic idea. i guess giving upwards of $8000 in rebates to sell Tahoes isn't enough for dumbass GM to understand they're pushing the wrong product at the wrong time. but i won't worry, i know that 7 years from now when gas is back to an acceptable price GM will be all over hybirds 7 years too late....of course that will be because Toyota will have bought them by then. Because Toyota they had the slight insight to follow the market and build hybirds, like every auto maker BUT GM will over the next few years.
"Formerly known as Jammit - JBO member since 1998" JBOM | CSS.net
[quote=JAMMIT}
Ian Lacey blew his motor, someone on here ratted him out. they almost denied him service. does it matter that every car he owns is GM? no. does it matter that upper level GM muckity-muck reps oogle his car at car shows? no. just that he blew his motor and now he is a peice of @!#$. everyone that owns a GM car has a horror story about GM Goodwrench's shady, rude, lazy, and incompitent service. most everyone on this site alone probally has at least 2 or 3 horror stories about GM service. because it's ok to go into the dealer with a hepped-up Corvette or Z28 with snarling exaust, and rims and everything aftermarket under the sun, and tell them you have an engine knock. they look at it and fix it. you go to that same dealer in a Z24 or Sunfire and have it tricked out just the same as the F & Y bodies....and poof your a drag racer, and your this, and your that. suddenly the engine knock isn't a default, it's you, or something you did or put on your car.
i was once chastised by a service writer for modifing my transmission, and because i modified my transmission my warranty wouldn't cover the snapped clutch cable or whatever broke 9 months after buying it brand new.
.
GM's service for me was very subpar as well. Since my warranty is over, I will NEVER return to a GM dealer for service, nor will I buy a GM car unless they are giving them away
>> customer clinic? who was this clinic? not J-body enthusiast.
-- enthusiasts are the last people you want to poll when looking at car re-design. The cavaier is for the "hey i need a car but i have no $" market -- hate to say it but it is true. Cavaliers are at the extremely low end of the spectrum -- problem is, Honda and Toyota make cars for the same market that are not only reliable but have STYLING that makes sense. My cavalier, is in essence, a pinto bean on wheels -- but im okay with that.
I would rather have quality build materials and modern styling than a 180HP engine... then again, if I go Japanese I can get both.
~ 98 Cavalier
the best cars GM made simply aren't made anymore. the cars that made our parents loyal GM enthusists aren't going to be at a dealer. when i was a kid, i loved the corvette stingrays, trans ams, ss camaros, z28 camaros, grand nationals, 442's, GTOs, the old Nova (means "no go") i even enjoy seeing restored el camino's ("the road")
i think a huge part is styling, whoever is designing the new lineup should be beaten with a 383 crankshaft. i thought the cavaliers could go out with grace, but no the last two years of it's existance they gave it the ugliest front and back i could have imagined, they need to get some DNA from harley earl, and john delorian, create a baby in a petrie dish and they might have a chance in 20 years.
i just read that whole article, and i agree with pretty much everything the dude said.....GM has came out with some decent quality stuff latley, for example the colorado, malibu, and equinox are all vehicles that stack up well with other cars in their segment......now if they could continue to do this for only a few brands then as the guy in the article said it should give GM a stable base to work with....
i say cut every brand but chevrolet, pontiac, saturn and caddilac......why just these three? well if chevrolet made a well built, bigger car aimed at older buys they would buy it, why have a whole division for it? GMC, its the same damn thing as the chevy trucks, i dont get that, if you want a GM truck buy a chevrolet.....why keep saturn you may ask? I think with their awsome customer service, giving saturn one or two well-built vechicles will make it a very popular nameplate....why keep pontiac? keep giving that nameplate cars like the GTO, and G6.... screw the mini-vans and SUV's and leave that for chevy
really what im saying is if they cut the brands down, and keeps focused on what that brand acctually stands for they would be better off.....Chevrolet should equal nice trucks and budget minded cars, Pontiac= nice sports cars/sporty family sedans, saturn=very well built cars aimed at taking import buyers, caddilac=continue to find better ways to combine luxery and sport and you will sell cars
as far as hummer and saab, i really dont follow them enough, but i dont think neither sells well anyway
GM needs to get their heads out of their rears and stop putting so much money into their trucks. They need to make RWD sedans and coupes to compete with the other companys with. Chrysler is making a killing with the 300C/Magnum.
GM needs to take the ecotec technology (140 hp and 36mpg hwy!) and make a bigger one for all the trucks and SUV's. Think about a small (two ecotecs glued together) 4.4L V8 with 280hp and 300 torque, and even if if only got 18 mpg thats pretty good. The 3800 V6 engine is the only one that gets any respect from car guys for reliability. The ecotec is a step in the right direction though.
The 3100 and 3400 blow intake manifold gaskets. $800 fix and pisses people off.
The 5300 has piston slap and is weak for how big it is. The 4300 V6 gets V8 gas mileage and 4 cyl power.
All the automatic tranny's are smooth, but no drain plug for doing fluid changes and only 4 speed automatics.
The 4200 I6 is a step in the right direction, but needs VVT on all the valves, not just exhaust. And it doesnt feel like 270 hp.
GM would be smart to get themselves some decent technology going in the trucks. And they probably should just drop GMC, since then if all the trucks were sold under the Chevy name, then it would be the Silverado as the best selling truck for 20 years, not the F150. GM should have realized that 15 years ago and made the change.
WOW ~~JAMMIT~~ That was beautifully said...... its like u took all of OUR ideas and thoughts and put it on this thread. Thank you and hopefully a respectable GM guy on top level see's this and takes it in and understand where were coming from, but really its to LATE. imo the young buyer's are the most important ones, its either their gonna be a lifer with gm and continue to buy from them or like the rest of us and go somewhere else because of terrible quality and service. Thanks again
Quote:
if you took it to them and they didnt fix it im sure there is some kind of legal action you can take
Your right their is some kind of legal action but it would take about a year and half of court and lawyers fees that i just can't afford to lose. I look into it alot and the best thing to do is ride this one out and take my losses and be a better consumer next time i purchase a vehicle. Thanks
~*Gilles*~
