z yaaaa wrote:
themarin8r wrote:isnt this like the 23048957349th J you have modded and then sold?
themarin8r wrote:this guy is a joke, he has ripped people off and has done total hack jobs before, hence why i am not even close to the only one being a dick to him in that thread
so your butt hurt that he ripped OTHER people off, and not you? so that gives you the right to slam him down. mmmm k....
Didn't seem to stop anyone from going after Whitboy...
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Yes, noob, the search button is for you...
Wow, this thread is getting sad....
The only thing funnier is that it is over some "basic" engine that most people could give two @!#$s about.....
Let me give some of you some perspective on the 2200.
It was chosen for the J because it's cheap, reliable and tough. You guys might be the 1% of J owners who care about speed, well guess what? You're outnumbered.
You're the very few who are just barely smart enough to understand how an engine works, but not quite bright enough to figure out that a J might not be the best car to go fast in.
The 2200 is an economy motor, and the J is an economy car. Read that sentence again. Both are designed to get you from point A to point B reliably and with minimal expense. The 2200 does this job beautifully.
I've got two 2200's, one turned 10 years old, and the other is 6 years old. Both have six digits on the odometer. The only maintainence these engines have demanded is a water pump for the 2002 and an O2 sensor for its older brother. You see an accessory-driven water pump as a negative because for some reason, you think a car should be able to run just fine with a snapped belt. When you have to change the water pump, you might appreciate how easy it is to get to, and how cheap it is.
The only other failure was a fan relay that caused the engine to overheat. I don't consider this an engine fault. The coolant temp hit 265 degrees before I could pull over. Nothing cracked or broke, I replaced the relay and all is well again.
The 2200 isn't for drag strip glory, it's a workhorse that lets you take care of all the BS in your life without adding to it. Do you have any idea what VW, Ford, Dodge, Jag or Benz owners would do for this kind of reliability? When your car is on jackstands or in the shop, you have zero horsepower. Sure, my J's only have 115 horsepower, but that power has been available every single day since they rolled out of the factory. They burn zero oil, still put down over 40mpg highway and start on the first crank in the dead of winter.
2002 Cavalier 2200 5spd
Solid Snake wrote:Let me give some of you some perspective on the 2200.
It was chosen for the J because it's cheap, reliable and tough. You guys might be the 1% of J owners who care about speed, well guess what? You're outnumbered.
I wasn't racing this car
Quote:
You're the very few who are just barely smart enough to understand how an engine works, but not quite bright enough to figure out that a J might not be the best car to go fast in.
barely smart enough to know how an engine works? HAHAHA
btw... i wasn't racing this car...
Quote:
The 2200 is an economy motor, and the J is an economy car. Read that sentence again. Both are designed to get you from point A to point B reliably and with minimal expense. The 2200 does this job beautifully.
I beg to differ. this one was nothing but regular everyday road use and it couldn't hold its water for that worth a damn.
Quote:
I've got two 2200's, one turned 10 years old, and the other is 6 years old. Both have six digits on the odometer. The only maintainence these engines have demanded is a water pump for the 2002 and an O2 sensor for its older brother. You see an accessory-driven water pump as a negative because for some reason, you think a car should be able to run just fine with a snapped belt. When you have to change the water pump, you might appreciate how easy it is to get to, and how cheap it is.
I'd prefer to not have to change a water pump.. never had a problem on any of my ecos
and its more along the lines of an emergency convenience... if an eco loses the belt, no need to worry because the water pump is driven by the secondary timing chain. just like the 2.4.. its water pump is driven off the timing chain.
Quote:
The only other failure was a fan relay that caused the engine to overheat. I don't consider this an engine fault. The coolant temp hit 265 degrees before I could pull over. Nothing cracked or broke, I replaced the relay and all is well again.
when are you turds going to read.. a car should NEVER overheat when in motion.. fan relay or not.. am I the only one that understands the concept of a radiator?? maybe a 2200 needs the fan running during driving, maybe thats normal for them??
Quote:
The 2200 isn't for drag strip glory, it's a workhorse that lets you take care of all the BS in your life without adding to it. Do you have any idea what VW, Ford, Dodge, Jag or Benz owners would do for this kind of reliability? When your car is on jackstands or in the shop, you have zero horsepower. Sure, my J's only have 115 horsepower, but that power has been available every single day since they rolled out of the factory. They burn zero oil, still put down over 40mpg highway and start on the first crank in the dead of winter.
wtf are you talking about every 2200 i've dealt with has had nothing but problems.. reliability my ass... 115hp my ASS try 90 at the wheel if you're LUCKY.
FYI the 2200 powered jbody (my 98 sunfire sedan 5 speed) is SOLD. My silver car (the one in the signature, that has an ecotec btw) is currently still getting the chassis totally re-done, and getting a fresh engine.
Am I supposed to feel insignificant because your 90hp turds work all the time meanwhile the skwirl, a car I was pushing and actually having fun with, ended up breaking? a car that I raced in nj, drove 1000miles to race at a track in milwaukee, then drove 1000miles back all in a single weekend? The eco never missed a beat and still ran some half way decent times..
when I cracked a ringland and still drove it for a month afterwards? that engine saw more hell than any 2200 could have ever had nightmares about. and the eco ate it up until one fateful day.. and accomplishing more than any 2200 with a ported head could have DREAMED about.
look here you turd, I wasn't racing the ohv POS. It was a DAILY DRIVER.. that hey! failed at daily driving. here's my perspective; you're old porsche is an old porsche. I think they're ugly and you should have bought a new one, but I guess you're too poor. But hey, everybody gets an opinion right?
my opinion is: 2200s SUCK. THEY SUCK at everything. Period.
Thats my opinion, hence why this is a RANT thread.
I barely know how an engine works huh? who the f are you anyway..? the description of your 928 is like reading a kids book... you think people never heard of a dogleg gearbox before? ever heard of the mazda 787b? they used porsche transmissions way back when.. a 240hp V8 OMG i'm scared
before you type your hasty response do it in a PM please.. I'm tired of assh0les like you bringing back this thread
LET IT DIE. 2200 SUCK.
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:Quote:
You're the very few who are just barely smart enough to understand how an engine works, but not quite bright enough to figure out that a J might not be the best car to go fast in.
barely smart enough to know how an engine works? HAHAHA
99.99% of people on this board do not truly understand how an engine works, including many with fast cars...
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:I'd prefer to not have to change a water pump.. never had a problem on any of my ecos
Your ECOs aren't as old, I don't think that can be stressed enough.
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:and its more along the lines of an emergency convenience... if an eco loses the belt, no need to worry because the water pump is driven by the secondary timing chain. just like the 2.4.. its water pump is driven off the timing chain.
So, you'd prefer a multiple belt system then? I HATE multiple belts, serpentine FTW. When the day comes that you DO have to change an ECO waterpump (eventually everything wears out, and it is definitely a wear part), I'm going to be expecting a rant thread about why GM it retarded for making it so hard to get to
Quote:
The only other failure was a fan relay that caused the engine to overheat. I don't consider this an engine fault. The coolant temp hit 265 degrees before I could pull over. Nothing cracked or broke, I replaced the relay and all is well again.
when are you turds going to read.. a car should NEVER overheat when in motion.. fan relay or not.. am I the only one that understands the concept of a radiator??Not true actually, think of everything involved, not just the fact that there is a radiator present.
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:wtf are you talking about every 2200 i've dealt with has had nothing but problems.. reliability my ass... 115hp my ASS try 90 at the wheel if you're LUCKY.
1) As pointed out, you've had bad luck, but you have been the exception, not the rule.
2) Never did he say whp, and seeing as we're talking about the engine and not the drivetrain, bhp makes more sense anyway. Here you're just trying to be an ass.
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:when I cracked a ringland and still drove it for a month afterwards? that engine saw more hell than any 2200 could have ever had nightmares about.
You didn't know mine, obviously. I also cracked a ringland and drove for a month (HARD) until the headgasket finally went. Ringland only cracked under a week or so at 9psi on a stock fuel system, that's a whole lot of "thank you mam, may I have another?"
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:I'm tired of assh0les like you bringing back this thread
LET IT DIE.
I'm tired of
you bringing it back
If you want it to die, stop posting
11 speaker JL Audio stereo setup for sale:
http://www.j-body.org/classifieds/audio/52021/
Dude, you're the one ragging on the 2200 because of its "90HP". If you're not racing it, why should you care? It moves the car just fine.
Where do you get these 2200's that are nothing but problems? If you pick up cars that others leave for dead, don't be surprised when they don't run right.
Quote:
when are you turds going to read.. a car should NEVER overheat when in motion.. fan relay or not.. am I the only one that understands the concept of a radiator?? maybe a 2200 needs the fan running during driving, maybe thats normal for them??
Who said I wasn't stuck in city traffic? Because I was. Who knows how long that relay was dead before I noticed it? You might not need a fan running, but a spinning water pump might be a good idea.
Quote:
Am I supposed to feel insignificant because your 90hp turds work all the time meanwhile the skwirl, a car I was pushing and actually having fun with, ended up breaking? a car that I raced in nj, drove 1000miles to race at a track in milwaukee, then drove 1000miles back all in a single weekend? The eco never missed a beat and still ran some half way decent times..
Then save your pennies and buy an Eco, but don't beat up on the 2200 because you resurrected a few 2200s in unknown condition and they gave you trouble.
You think I care what you think about my Porsche? Not everyone wears their car like a prick extension. That car has been running strong before you were even a stain on your mommy's mattress. I find it hilarious that someone who can't even afford to maintain a 2200 is telling me to buy a new Porsche. By the way, Porsche didn't make the 928's transmission, maybe I should have put that in the kid's book for you.
As I and others can vouch for, 2200s when properly maintained are rock solid. I don't know the condition of the motors you had, or where you got them, but I'm betting it has a lot to do with your difficulties with them. 2200's got a lot of people to work this morning, and when mine stops doing that, I'll be sure to let you know.
2002 Cavalier 2200 5spd
LET IT DIE ALREADY
Pj hates the motor, others do too, and some dont
now we all need to get over it
2200s SUCK. Now lock this thing up!
I love reliability thus why I love my 2200. Plus, I rather like how it took maybe half an hour to change my water pump...
PJ's ignorant of 2200's as a whole and the 2200 ROCKS. NOW lock it up
2200 BLOWS why do you think people do eco swaps? WOOT
JBOK.org / J-Bodies of Kentucky
Ben (DirtyJ) wrote:2200 BLOWS why do you think people do eco swaps? WOOT
Because people feed them the "2200 blows" line, this has been pointed out before
11 speaker JL Audio stereo setup for sale:
http://www.j-body.org/classifieds/audio/52021/
Ben (DirtyJ) wrote:2200 BLOWS why do you think people do eco swaps? WOOT
Because nobody takes the time to use it's potential, they just always switch over to the eco beacuse they want results now. I on the other hand don't really care if my engine is junk, it's a cavalier. I use my car to get from one place to another and as soon as it is beyond repair, I go out and buy a new car, or get a new car and keep the cavalier as a winter car. I'd rather spend my money on a MUCH nicer car than making a "go fast" cavalier. And please, don't bring up the debate on how much money you could throw into a cavalier and spank a viper. It is the MOST retarted debate that has ever existed.
-dan
All I'm hearing from 2200 guys is that, oh, this motor is so reliable and no one uses its potential.
Theres a reason no one uses its potential.. its GARBAGE.
As for reliability, great, theres a million other motors out there that are just as reliable. Gas mileage? my 35mpg is fine if someone can't afford that they shouldn't be on the roads.
People do eco swaps because the eco > 2200.. all day long.
If you like j-bodies and thats what you are into, then it is perfectly logical to do an eco swap because the motor is superior to the 2200 and the swap is usually pretty cost effective. If you just like its get to point A and B reliability and don't care for anything else performance wise, then I don't know why you are on this site.
LOCK?
JBOK.org / J-Bodies of Kentucky
I've owned both motors. 120k miles on the 2200 problem free - not a dime into the engine or trans except for oil changes. It got 35mpg when i beat the hell outta i, and 42mpg on a full highway trip. However with full bolt-ons (I/H/E/TB/Mounts), it would barely hang with a stock eco. Not that I have an eco, I can say that for 50k miles so far its been just as reliable. It gets 35 mpg mixed driving. Now with I/H/E/TB it will wipe the floor with any n/a 2200. With the LE5 mani swap, comp stage1 and HPT it should be a mid 14-sec car.
That's just the way it is - the eco is a superior design. If you want to hang on the "reliability" arguement, my bro was a tech for a GM dealer and said that the only eco's hes had to service had over 200k miles (timing chain), or were subject to abuse (cracked oil pans - no oil ect).
So if you have a 2200 - mod it and enjoy it. That is what its all about. But realize that it's on a significant generational/technological gap with the eco, and dollar for dollar, it will yield less.
