2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999 - General Forum

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2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Wednesday, August 01, 2012 8:08 PM
Have a 2000 cav z24 donor car. Pulling the engine and putting it in my 1999.
Donor engine is runs real nice car was in a wreck - so body buggered, but drivetrain good condition.

I assume the computer should be OK - no prom changes needed, etc. I think they did little to change the drivetrain between the years.

I intend to pull the engine from the top. am looking for tips from some others who have done it, Some basic steps/tips are appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Wednesday, August 01, 2012 9:26 PM
you will need to run the 1999 computer in the 1999 car... you will also need to add an EGR, and you will need to drill out the knock sensor port on the block for the 1999 knock sensor

Or

You can run the 2000 PCM in the 1999, and you will need to rewire the 1999 back to the taillights with the 2000 wiring (adding in the BCM, and swapping over the cluster and the gastank and fuel lines)...

Crossing the 2000 line is a bit of a pain.



Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:19 AM
I hope the donor car was free... if not, you shoulda done your homework. >.<
Hope it works out for ya!




________________________________________.
Still not low enough for a signature.

Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:50 AM
99 J-bodies never had EGR. NO Js did in 99. N-bodies and others are a different story.
Kyle your making this way to hard.


Take the 00 block, and bolt it into the 99. It will fit perfect, and everything will bolt up like stock.


You will need to use the front O2 sensor from the 99, and I think one other sensor from the 99, but do not remember off hand which one. I believe EVERY other sensor is plug-n-play. The injectors are even the same. The tunes between the 99 and 00 are so close from the factory that the motor will not know the difference. I have copied the tables over into my 99 from a 00 tune, and I couldn't tell ANY difference at all.










Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:52 AM


Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Thursday, August 02, 2012 10:50 AM
-MD- Enforcer wrote:

99 J-bodies never had EGR. NO Js did in 99. N-bodies and others are a different story.
Kyle your making this way to hard.


Take the 00 block, and bolt it into the 99. It will fit perfect, and everything will bolt up like stock.


You will need to use the front O2 sensor from the 99, and I think one other sensor from the 99, but do not remember off hand which one. I believe EVERY other sensor is plug-n-play. The injectors are even the same. The tunes between the 99 and 00 are so close from the factory that the motor will not know the difference. I have copied the tables over into my 99 from a 00 tune, and I couldn't tell ANY difference at all.
what about the knock sensor... it was my understanding that the pre-2000 LD9s used the bigger knock while the 00+ used the smaller knock... Or is the 2000 line actually the 1999 line and its been misreferenced over time?



Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Thursday, August 02, 2012 10:59 AM
I know both my 99s have the 00-02 style knock sensor.

The problem / confusion is 99 j-bodies have the smaller knock sensor, and N-bodies and others may or may not in 99.







Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Thursday, August 02, 2012 7:23 PM
Yes I checked it out - the engine setup (my 99 has no egr) is identical... Only concern I had was the computer and it sounds like its good to go.

Not quite clear on this knock sensor though. Sounds like I am OK. Not sure where that bugger is on these little 4 cylinders.

I do want to use the instrument cluster - (think) that will work. Previous owner killed a bunch of the LED lights on the back of the my old one (think he had a grounding problem and fixed it the easy way. No check engine light - lol.
I just put in voltmeter and oil pressure gauges and I have a scanner to read any MIL codes. would be good to have the cluster working as it should though.

I noticed the 2000 came with a FOB (mine didn't have one - dunno if I could have this one could be reprogrammed to work on mine or not...)

I am pulling if from the top - any pointers on that? I talked to a mechanic on this (he drops the whole front end, says best way - but then again he has a hoist. That to me is the hard way for a someone with only a cherrypicker.

Thanks for the replies guys.
Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:03 PM
this i am certain of... 1999s did not have a BCM, where as 2000+ do... the 2000+ cluster will not work correctly in the 99... 99 and older the mileage is stored in the cluster, whereas in 2000 the milage is stored in the BCM. I believe the same applies to the key fob...

Easy way to check for this is to plug up the 2000 Cluster in the 1999... if it says "ERROR" where the mileage is supposed to be, it will not work correctly in the 1999.

The knock sensor is located on the backside of the block near cyl 4. Look for either 2 or 3 wires... you want to make sure both sensors has the same amount of wires on it...

Here are some pics of how my motor went in... make sure you pull the crank pully off before you pull the motor, this will help you with clearance.







Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Thursday, August 02, 2012 9:10 PM


Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Friday, August 03, 2012 6:30 PM
why to people alway sbring up a BCM when doin a swap its a BODY CONTROL MODUAL in 99 they didn;t have them so taking an 00 engine and installing it in to a 99 doesn't matter the car wont look for what it doesn't have and the BCM doesn't run engine components thats the PCMs job and thats called the POWER CONTROL MODUAL. in an 00+ j if one is missing the car wont work but thats only for cars equiped with such a thing

engien swaps are simple stop making them harder then they need to be



JBO since July 30, 2001
Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Friday, August 03, 2012 8:40 PM
NOTa2_4 wrote:

why to people alway sbring up a BCM when doin a swap its a BODY CONTROL MODUAL in 99 they didn;t have them so taking an 00 engine and installing it in to a 99 doesn't matter the car wont look for what it doesn't have and the BCM doesn't run engine components thats the PCMs job and thats called the POWER CONTROL MODUAL. in an 00+ j if one is missing the car wont work but thats only for cars equiped with such a thing

engien swaps are simple stop making them harder then they need to be


Pappyl wrote:

I do want to use the instrument cluster - (think) that will work. Previous owner killed a bunch of the LED lights on the back of the my old one (think he had a grounding problem and fixed it the easy way. No check engine light - lol.
I just put in voltmeter and oil pressure gauges and I have a scanner to read any MIL codes. would be good to have the cluster working as it should though.

I noticed the 2000 came with a FOB (mine didn't have one - dunno if I could have this one could be reprogrammed to work on mine or not...)

Hmm i see need to discuss the BCM...

so either Reading > you ... or ... possibly 2000+ clusters and 2000+ keyfobs aren't ran by the BCM...... and that's just silly...


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, August 03, 2012 8:43 PM


Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Sunday, August 05, 2012 1:04 PM
i just put a salvage motor in my 98 z24 yesterday and i noticed the knock sensor was different than the one that was on the original block, will the car still run if i dont plug the knock sensor in? also if it wont is there any way to make it work?

Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Sunday, August 05, 2012 3:15 PM
you really don't want to run without a knock sensor. It will run without it, but the point of a knock sensor is to detect knock, and then retard ignition timing to prevent the motor from blowing up.

To run the smaller knock sensor in a 98 block, you would need to get a heli-coil... however, some of us have a theory that this method causes the sensor to report knock that isn't there, (e.g. Ghost Knock)...

i wonder if the only correction is to weld up the port and re drill and tap. or to plug the hole and find another spot to relocate the knock sensor..



Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Saturday, August 18, 2012 12:05 PM
my comment was made because the BCM has nothing to do wil putting a 2000 engine into a 99 absoultly NOTHING

the cluster and key fobs are BODY items those are run by the BCM but the engine is run by the PCM.

kyle your info above thats it false is what causes confusion in these kinda swaps



JBO since July 30, 2001
Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Saturday, August 18, 2012 9:30 PM
NOTa2_4 wrote:

my comment was made because the BCM has nothing to do wil putting a 2000 engine into a 99 absoultly NOTHING

the cluster and key fobs are BODY items those are run by the BCM but the engine is run by the PCM.

kyle your info above thats it false is what causes confusion in these kinda swaps
So you're telling me, to run a 2000+ PCM in a pre 2000 (or 1999 in a pre 1999) car, you can drop in the PCM, engine wiring, and engine sensors pertaining to that PCM, and everything will work without any modifications to the dash wiring (E.G: the cluster will work correctly) ???



Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Tuesday, August 21, 2012 12:59 PM
99s are 00+ are different animals with 99s not having BCMs.

I know my 99 PCM with a 00-02 tune...the cluster will not work correctly.





Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Friday, August 24, 2012 4:01 PM
No kyle thats not what i'm sayign i'm saying a 2000 engine can and will run in a 99 car with a 99 PCM

99s use a serial data and uart data system and 00 plus is all serial data

2 totally different data streams

but how does a 99 pcm know the engines out of an 00 IT DOESN'T NOR DOES IT CARE now if it was a 2000 engine in a 98 this topic would be different

curious if the OPhas started on this yet



JBO since July 30, 2001
Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Wednesday, August 29, 2012 8:24 PM
Ok so, pulled 2 engines (old and donor)
O2 sensor is different on donor - will switch back to old as soon as I get a good O2 socket.
Donor lower crank pulley seal shows signs of leaking oil. Going to get new seal.
Donor engine belt tensioner looks loose, switched to old one.
Otherwise everything looks same.

So, here's a breakdown of how I pulled the engine, just in case anyone else needs to do it.

Basically can do the job with 10mm, 13mm, 15mm, 18mm sockets
- drove car up on ramps, blocked tires. Note: used jacks and jackstands before, but find these more dangerous as I've had a car shift sideways before when on jack stands. Good quality ramps nice and stable. For those who have a hoist - am jealous.

- removed hood
- disconnected battery
- removed hood latch from front cross-assembly, disconnected airbag sensor, and removed cross-assembly (tight, but it pulls up and out)
- disconnected condensor bolts lower and upper, and AC lines (note: very little gas in system), and pulled our condenser.
- disconnected lower rad hose/drained coolant
- disconnected rad upper hoses, fan connector, tranny lines. Note: BOTH cars, the lower tranny line busted (rusted) when trying to disconnect.
- disconnected intake plenum, cable cover, cables.
- disconnected fuel lines at fuel rail, disconnected fuel rail and injector wires, and return line. Pulled lines to side.
- disconnected intake, vacuum and sensor wires. Pulled whole intake and throttle body up and out. Note: lower wiring lines connected underneath intake.
- rotated belt tensioner, took off belt
- disconnected alternator/wiring, knock sensor
- disconnected starter and ground wiring (note: good to take pictures here so you know what connects to starter post and what goes to ground bolts on block)
- Disconnected AC compressor and lines, and pulled out lines including evaporator - taped off evap/lines note: 2 bolts underneath for compressor - also disconnected and labelled tranny wire and pulled back to front.
- Disconnected O2 sensors, crank sensor plugs
- Disconnected rad hose, temp sensor coupler, heater line. Disconnected rear line running to coolant bottle, rear heater line (a pain - can wait until raising engine)
- Disconnected power steering pump and pulled to side.
- Loosened right wheel, jacked up right side and pulled off wheel. Disconnected/removed plastic shrouds exposing PCM and lower crank pulley and lower engine stabilizer. Disconnected stabilizer. (Can at this time use air gun to undo crank bolt and pull pulley - or not)
- Put wheel back on and dropped back on ramp
- Removed top bolts from upper engine mount (so can rock engine)
- Went underneath and swore, many many times. Undid tranny bolts/inspection cover. Undid the 3 exhaust coupler bolts. Note: my good car had 13mm bolts - which I snapped off. The donor have 15mm - which I was able to undo. Used long extensions and flex sockets. THIS WAS THE BIGGEST PITA JOB OF ALL.
- Dropped car off ramps, hooked engine up to cherry picker with my fancy engine leveler.
- Put a small jack under the tranny with board and jacked up a bit.
- Disconnected remaining upper bolts on tranny. Note: there is one 18mm bolt hidden under the exhaust manifold easy to miss.
- Once all undone, wiggled the engine, played with the cherry picker and the tranny jack until she broke away from the tranny, left about an inch between, Put in a lever and rotated the flext plate to undo the 3 bolts to the torque converter via the access at the starter hole.
- Then slowly jacked her up and out, watching for hanging wires, hitting the firewall, etc, etc.
- Once engine was out, bolted up the upper mount again, took a chain and bolted to the tranny tailstock on RH side, wrapped around and up to the upper mount and bolted down. This allowed me to push the car out of the garage and push the other one in...

Have not put back in yet....
- First issue will be getting the torque converter holes to line up. Should be fun.

Couple other notes...
- There's a plastic channel for the main wiring harness on the left under the rad - which has an exposed hole (which I am going to tape this up - bad area I think for wiring degradation problems.
- Under the rad - lots of rust.
- Will need to put on new trany lines to rad.
Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Thursday, August 30, 2012 5:02 PM
when i build engine harnesses you wouldn't believe how much crap comes out of that plastic thing i always get a pile of sand
tranny lines are nothing better safe then sorry

as for the torque converter its easy just have someone help you 1 line them up underniether the other rotates the the engine to line up the bolts



JBO since July 30, 2001
Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Friday, August 31, 2012 7:52 PM
Right now my biggest problem is getting the O2 sensor off in one piece from the old engine to the new one without wrecking it.
I don't have an oxy acetlyne torch and I already sprayed it with penetrating oil.
I used a special socket but it simply rotated and buggered the threads a bit . Not strong enough to hold. If I can get a socket to hold, I'll get her to move. I have another type to try, hopefully it works. I'll use my propane torch to heat the manifold, shock the threads with a tap of a hammer on a wrench then try this new socket.

I'll pull apart that plastic channel and get the dirt out of it- good point.

I noticed the old car had a bad rust/battery issue - and it leaked all over the wiring underneath. I think that anyone who has an older cav that gets winter and salt should take out the battery and remove that tray and check underneath for any wiring problems. Not a good design. They used plastic everywhere else, why not the tray? Asshole company cutting corners when they should'nt. I can say this because I've earned it with too many GMs owned to list.

note: Best car I ever owned was my 86 cutlass supreme. Frame rotted out - but still ran strong after 20 years of steady running. In that time towed it just once when the carb needle valve stuck open. Carb rebuild fixed that.
Re: 2.4 Engine Swap: 2000 to 1999
Friday, August 31, 2012 7:57 PM
I'll be parting out the donor 2000 cav soon.
Good tranny, interior parts, etc. I may keep the struts and bearings. Dunno yet.
If anyone is near London Ont and is looking for something - let me know.
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