i know the 2.4 has more power blah blah blah,

i want to know how hard is the 2.4 to work on? How well it takes to mods(h/e/i and cams)

Also how reliable is the 2.4 engine?

The reason I ask is becuase i know how to work on the 2.2-2200, but I am debating a 2.4 swap, and am curious as to if i will be always working and fixing on the 2.4. Where as the 2200 is pretty reliable and can withstand some beating.

i dont think the 2.4 is bad. its not any worse than any other engine to work on. easy oil change. some say the number 3 bearing goes out and the water goes bad a lot. but you keep in mind on any engine bearings go out. water pumps go bad



Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!

how well does the 2.4 take abuse? and what are common problems on the engine? I have heard about many gm engine blow head gaskets, (knock on wood) I have yet to blow a head gasket.

It is a big deal to change the water pump on a 2.4 isnt it?

it takes abuse as good as any other i think. jsut go to keep up with the maintence
head gaskets blowing are common on the old 2.3 quad 4.
to have a shop change a water pump, they would charge like $600. its not the pump thats expensive, its the labor



Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!

Are you serious? Why would you even think about going with a 2200 over a 2.4? The 2200 was put on the top 10 list for the worst engine ever made!!! I read in that same magazine that it was one of the most underpowered most unreliable engines ever. I found the article online and here is what it said -----> "CHEVY 2.2L I-4

Recently replaced by the all-new Ecotec 2.2, this pre-Ecotec inliner was a disaster. Lacking in power, unreliable, and hungry for head gaskets, the anemic four was offered in many GM front-drivers (like the Beretta and Cavalier), and the popular line of Chevy S-10/GMC S-15 pickups. Press reviews at the time recommended against backing these engines with automatic transmissions, especially in the pickups. With pathetic power and unreliable durability, what could be worse? A series of steel freeze plugs were also known to corrode, providing a messy time bomb that could go off at almost any mileage reading past 50,000. It's no wonder GM used absolutely no engineering or design from this engine when developing the Ecotec. We think GM should offer Ecotec upgrades to all owners of these pathetic mills, but alas, the designs have so much variance between them, swaps are no easy task. Too bad."

That article, if true, goes way outta proportion, the 2200 is the base engine in millions of fleet cars, its mass produced because of its reliablity, sure when its an auto 2200 it lacks lots of power, but with $300 dollars worth of mods it can be running with stock z24's. The 2200 is a good engine, cheap and reliable.

i dont know much about the 2.2 but i do have a 2.4 and on the abuse end, i have put my car through hell and back and push it to the limit alot and it works fine for having 130k on it. i have replaced things that go out after a long time being that my car is a 96 but as far as any motor problems, none, but my tranny did go out this weekend. that has been the only major thing and i have a done alot or performance to my car and i am bout to go boost so we will see how ling it last after that.

you wanna see an underpowered engine, check out the 2.5l "4-Tec" GM made. i have one in my 89 Buick Century. 96hp at the crank! but it takes abuse like no other. 220k miles (about 75k miles worth of abuse) and it still runs like new.




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That article was from hot rod magazine which is a very well known magazine and i wouldnt doubt that it is tru. $300 worth of mods equals a 2.4 liter . you cant buy much perforemance with $300 unless you are one of those people who believe you can run 10 1/4 with an ebay intake!

The 2200 is slow, but it is hardly unreliable.

yea i believe that article does go a little overboard with the reliabilty thing because my best friends mom has the 2200 and it has 150,000miles on it with no major problems but why would you mod the 2200 if he could have a 2.4.

I've got 140,000 miles on my 2200 engine and it's fine. ::knock wood:: The older 2.2 (pre 98) had the head gasket problem. The only thing I've heard about for the 2200 is the valve chatter, and timing chains getting sloppy. (I think mine has that problem).

That article is WAY off. Probably written by a SBC enthusiast or a Honda enthusiast.


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Well, i personally had a bad opinion of the 2200 BEFORE i bought my cavy, abnd since ive owned the car, i have found that if you keep an eye on the water level and temp the engine will live forever, one thing is for sure, the 2.2/220 DOES NOT LIKE TO GET HOT.

Once it does it blows the head gasket and usually cracks the head. But ive have given my 2200 lots of abuse and it just keeps coming back for more, hell sometimes i think the harder i beat on it the better it runs.

With the aftermarket slowly coming around with speed parts for the 2.2/2200 i dont think the swap to a 2.4 is worth the expense or hassle. You can make a 2200 just as fast as a 2.4 and i firmly believe the 2200 is more reliable and much easier and cheaper to work on.


Thats just my $.02 worth.


Mike

1992 GMC Sonoma GT #492. Oh, Its just a stock V6!

1999 Cavalier Coupe, daily driver, 2200/M5. Mods and pics are in my registry.

Fully built turbo 2200 in progress, should be installed very soon. Will post details as they happen.
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HotRodV6 wrote:Well, i personally had a bad opinion of the 2200 BEFORE i bought my cavy, abnd since ive owned the car, i have found that if you keep an eye on the water level and temp the engine will live forever, one thing is for sure, the 2.2/220 DOES NOT LIKE TO GET HOT.

Once it does it blows the head gasket and usually cracks the head. But ive have given my 2200 lots of abuse and it just keeps coming back for more, hell sometimes i think the harder i beat on it the better it runs.

With the aftermarket slowly coming around with speed parts for the 2.2/2200 i dont think the swap to a 2.4 is worth the expense or hassle. You can make a 2200 just as fast as a 2.4 and i firmly believe the 2200 is more reliable and much easier and cheaper to work on.


Thats just my $.02 worth.

i hav eyet had the experience to work on the 2.4, but i know the 2200 has got to be easier to work on(reading through the Haynes).

I have already converted my 97 car to a 99 2200. It is all i could get at the time, now i am having second thoughts.

The big question is:

Should I put the money into modding the 2200. I know I can make it fast. Or Instead of spending the money on the 2200, buy a salvaged 2.4 liter car and do the swap.

How much faster is the 2.4 than a i/e/h 2200? say both are 5 speeds

A stock 2.4 is high 15s, an ieh 2.2 is low 16s. 5 spd of course.

You have to ask yourself, how fast do you want to go. Having 15s as a goal for a 2.2, n/a, is an excercise in wasting money. You will definitely have to do headwork along with other supporting mods, by which point you will have spent too much money. Why too much? Because this cash could have been used to swap in a 2.4 engine, and you would have a stock (i.e. relatively reliable) setup. Keep in mind, we are talking about your goal being 15s.

However, once you set your sights on 14s and better, you might as well stick with your pushrods. The cost for an engine swap would be better used in strengthening up your engine. Whether you are going the 2.2 or 2.4 route, once you dip into the 13s, you will buy some good internals, unless you get woodies from buying new engines. The 2.2 guys will have to pay for the stronger parts, and the swapped 2.4 guys will have to pay for the new engine + stronger parts. I'll leave which one is cheaper as an excercise for the reader.





__________________________________________

Quote:

Originally posted by MSD
I have an 03 5-speed Cavy, and when I race.. I shift at 6300-6500. That method (coupled with the fact that the guy probably couldn't drive for @!#$) allowed me to keep up with/have a slight lead on an 04 Mustang GT.

vtech power wrote:A stock 2.4 is high 15s, an ieh 2.2 is low 16s. 5 spd of course.

You have to ask yourself, how fast do you want to go. Having 15s as a goal for a 2.2, n/a, is an excercise in wasting money. You will definitely have to do headwork along with other supporting mods, by which point you will have spent too much money. Why too much? Because this cash could have been used to swap in a 2.4 engine, and you would have a stock (i.e. relatively reliable) setup. Keep in mind, we are talking about your goal being 15s.

However, once you set your sights on 14s and better, you might as well stick with your pushrods. The cost for an engine swap would be better used in strengthening up your engine. Whether you are going the 2.2 or 2.4 route, once you dip into the 13s, you will buy some good internals, unless you get woodies from buying new engines. The 2.2 guys will have to pay for the stronger parts, and the swapped 2.4 guys will have to pay for the new engine + stronger parts. I'll leave which one is cheaper as an excercise for the reader.

I thought the 2.2OHV was high 16's/Low 17's ... and the 2.4DOHC was Mid 15's (Both in 5spd.)

Personally I would say buy a 2.4L with low miles from a junk yard for about $750 (thats what I was finding them for) BEFORE installing bring to a machine shop:
1) Upgrade all berrings to Clevite 77's.
2) Depending on Funds do what you please (Pistons, Rods, Cams, etc)
4) Federal Mougal Gaskets
3) Have a NICE water pump installed
Now depending on the shop that will run anywhere from $1000-$1500

$1750-2250 to me is a great price for a Strong engine ready to handle Nitrous/Turbo

Its all up to you and what you have to spend, I guess you can take that $2250 and invest in a Turbo kit, but its still a 2.2OHV.

I say run with what you got... everyone just gives up on the OHV and I know it has some serious potential that not a lot of people bother to unlock...

also, keep in mind that since the OHV is the bastard engine of the Jbody family, their desirability is zero, making them easy to find, and usually VERY cheap...

so if you do hurt something, you can buy a new motor for $300

theres alot to be said for pushrod motors, all you guys are so hung up on Hp numbers, does anyone realize that the main motivating factor in your et is torque down low?

Sure drag cars make 8000 hp but hav eyou ever seen the torque numbers? same with big rigs, all torque 500 hp engines dont sound so impressive but if you look at the flip side they rev to about 4000 rpm max and make all their power low with torque numbers around 1500 lb ft, most fast v-8s have this going for them as well, and pushrod motors have more mass which helps torque out alot.

Over head cams rev free because of lack of mass, but they have lower torque to back up those high numbers, most 2200s also are very reliable, the old 97 blocks were horrid for head gaskets, which is why gm redesigned the water passages and routed everything reverse to cool the engine more effiecently and keep your engine happy, and yes keep them cool they run great, i bought my 98 cavy with 79,000 miles on it, it now sits at 102,997 miles and the only problem i've had was a wire that rubbed to a short in the wire loom for the temp sensor, and alittle alternator whine but no voltage problems so i dont really count that, i searched around alot for parts and found a vast market of parts for the 2200s you just have to search, they make cams, pistons, rods, bearings, gaskets, turbo kits, nitrous kits, high flow heads, roller rockers, stainless valves, pushrods, i even found a site that sold cranks.


J~

*yeah those big rigs are deisel, completely diferent things man...

I piss pound my 2.2l OHV everyday, has a blownheadgasket, motor mounts are shot, Im sure the head is cracked, coolant looks, swelling radiator hoses, loud ticking noises from the valve. Torque Converter lock out doesnt work. and My car is still running strong as balls!



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I beat the piss out of my 96 2.2. I never had a problem until the accident. It runs strong still but the head is cracked and the head gasket is bad. But i can buy however many more motors i need for $300. I thought about the 2.4 swap but just thinking of all the problems my buddy had with his 2.4(5 motors in 6 months, and he beat on it less than me) Im gonna stick with the 2.2. I'm not worried about being extremely fast. And the water pump on the 2.4 is a bastard to change. well i guess im used to my good'ol 2.2 At least as F'd up as it is it still drives just overheats wicked bad.



Not now, but someday!

how could you blow 5 motor in 6 month

Unless your stupid and/or very unlucky. There are people on here that run boost on stock motor and everything is working fine. Do your friend put some oil in it?




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Fast Fosgate wrote:That article, if true, goes way outta proportion, the 2200 is the base engine in millions of fleet cars, its mass produced because of its reliablity, sure when its an auto 2200 it lacks lots of power, but with $300 dollars worth of mods it can be running with stock z24's. The 2200 is a good engine, cheap and reliable.

300 dollars? are you crazy, thats a 50 hp difference, what could you buy for 300 dollars to gain 50 hp, please let me in on the cheap secret turbo setup

300 bux for replacement 2.2? Where can I find one? High mileage, no mileage, what are we talkin here? I have 150k on mine, and have invested MUCH much money on bolt-ons, suspension, etc...hell, if I could get a stock replacement engine, I could run the 35 or 50 shot I wanted...got my friends who could even drop it in for me. anyone who knows, email me at soulhorse715@yahoo.com. Thanks guys!

sorry if i stole the thread for a sec.




...don't hate!.. respect people that have talent, even if it is in something you don't like or understand.

in every manner the 2.4 is either equal or better save price.. like someone said no one wants a 2.2 so they are cheap. also the 2.4 has a slew of performance parts found in family with the 2.3 quad. all depends on what you want out of the car.

BUT 2.2 + 50 shot = 2.4 1/4 mile wise anyway

the 2.4 is crazy reliable as is the 2.2 so no worries. just dont be an idiot.



Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..

its all comes down to a few things, and this is why the 2.4 is superior.

the head flows more air. its a 16 valve motor, and the 2200 isnt going to be able to compete with its small ports and 8 valves.

the 2.4 also has a higher redline, allowing more revs, and potential for more hp, and ability to take more advantage of gearing.

the 2.4 is of course a larger displacement motor.

both could be modded, but these things will remain the same, leaving the 2.4 always be in charge.


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