2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List - Page 4 - Performance Forum

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Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Monday, June 05, 2006 6:09 PM
Alright, first off, I'm not trying to come off like a jack-ass...well, not up to here. After this sentence, welllll....
NUTCASE . wrote:first off I have modded several cars that have gone 12's and faster.
whoop-dee-friggin-doo...All I have to say about this is those must have been very easy builds...like stripping down a Fararri 360 to gain that .1s (I don't know what that car runs stock, so don't go look it up to try and "prove me wrong", that was mearly a bit of sarcasm).
NUTCASE . wrote:changing out a stock roller rocker for an aftermarket one of the same ratio will not make you ANY FASTER. this has been tried time and time again both on the engine dyno, chassis dyno and on the track. the most improvement I have ever heard of by swiching out a stock roller rocker for a aftermarket of the same ratio was less than 2 hp. and thats on an engine dyno.
Well, this would be good and all, except that the 1.6 is a higher ratio than the 2200 stock. I know you will try and argue this, but as I'll note later, you're wrong. Also, you are apparently stupid, or ignorant, because ANY reduction in friction or reciprocating mass WILL result in a power increase...it's physics, deal with it. Will it be enough to be observed on a relatively low resolution and vulnerable dyno run? Probably not, but that doesn't mean it's not there. Power is power, speed is speed, there is no 'relative' when engine building. 2hp NA is nothing to smuck at, especially when you're trying to squeeze every ounce. You think .1s is't a big deal either? How about 1s? 1min? Where do YOU draw the line? (hint: I don't care).
NUTCASE . wrote:as far as someone making them specifically for our motors notice I said "I wish" I did not say someone MUST or HAS TO or I WOULD NOT REST IN PEACE UNTIL......so there is no breaching of reality here. almost all of my projects have involved pirating some part from a different car or motor for better preformance at one time or the other so don't tell me "whats the problem"
Well, you haven't been around here long enough to have gone through the weekly, rediculous, "I wish"es. We get them on a regular basis, and from what you had said up to that point, I assumed you didn't have a clue.
NUTCASE . wrote:and as for you 1.54rr's on the 2200 motors here ya go
http://www.ny-jbodies.org/library/engine/2200/2200.htm look about halfway down where it talks about VALVE SYSTEM
Congratulations, now to burst your bubble, the sun used to revolve around the Earth...
I'm familiar with that page (I acutally have pretty much everything on that and the 2.2L page memorized). Yeah, that's right, whether you believe it or not, it's wrong. Karo(?) had them measured, and they were 1.54:1. Was it just a fluke? maybe, but we all know what kind of 'quality' development GM put into our economy boxes, they started screwing us after the first year of production, junky parts are guarenteed in our world. Now, just so you learn not to take eveything to heart, check out the 2200 cam swap page on the ny-jbodies site...guess what, it's complete .
NUTCASE . wrote:the 1.54's were on the 97 and earlier 2.2's
Now, I've never measured them, but it's accepted around here that the pre-98 2.2L rockers are 1.5. ]Check it out., your beloved ny-jbodies even agrees with me.
NUTCASE . wrote:I don't mind arguing and having to look up stuff I havent seen in forever to prove my point but, and I can take some sarcasm too, but I think you are getting a bit insulting on a subject for which you are WRONG
If I was wrong, then congratulations. But, unfortunately for yourself, I was not in error. If you want to continue trying to blow smoke up our asses, go ahead, but you're just living up to your name.
NUTCASE . wrote:and by the way, for the ls1 rockers, I even said it would take fabbing, and I said "don't take this for gospel" becouse I wasant sure and I wanted to get that out in the open.
so busting me on that and not just saying "your wrong dude" was kind of retarded
Well, I'll tell you what, you go right ahead and reinvent the wheel. But, if you would read around here some, you would see why you're looking more and more retarded with every post. Mostly because you would see how close the rocker fulcrum comes to the side of the neighboring spring. If you want to go ahead and modify (grind away) at the bearing, have fun. I'll laugh as you go throw your $$$ down the drain, and then as you destroy your valvetrain.
Here, try this before you bother replying next time.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 4:44 PM
Quote:

whoop-dee-friggin-doo...All I have to say about this is those must have been very easy builds...like stripping down a Fararri 360 to gain that .1s (I don't know what that car runs stock, so don't go look it up to try and "prove me wrong", that was mearly a bit of sarcasm).


do you have any idea what it takes to take a car from 15's to 14's to 12's. or even what it takes to make a high 11 car go low 11? you tend to learn a few things on the way, like what works and what doesn't. and btw, I only stripped down 2 of my cars so I know exactly how far gutting your interior gets you and that its usually not worth it(for your stripped ferrari comment)


Quote:

Also, you are apparently stupid, or ignorant, because ANY reduction in friction or reciprocating mass WILL result in a power increase...it's physics, deal with it. Will it be enough to be observed on a relatively low resolution and vulnerable dyno run? Probably not, but that doesn't mean it's not there. Power is power, speed is speed, there is no 'relative' when engine building. 2hp NA is nothing to smuck at, especially when you're trying to squeeze every ounce. You think .1s is't a big deal either? How about 1s? 1min? Where do YOU draw the line? (hint: I don't care).


yes, ANY reduction will make you a LITTLE faster. do you have any ide what 1hp at the flywheel translates to at the wheeles? hardly .005sec and if your headwind goes up just a little you will still go slower anyways. you rag on me but do YOU even know what it takes to take .2sec off a car??? a hell fo alot more than 1fwhp.

Quote:

Well, you haven't been around here long enough to have gone through the weekly, rediculous, "I wish"es. We get them on a regular basis


whenever you hear someone say "I wish" or " I would like it if" do you go off on the same tangem? I think someone is a little sensative and should go to the doctor to get the sand knocked out of there v****a. now if you want to keep this escalating by throwing these insults back and forth I will just start ignoring you

if I got bad info on that nyjbodies page then so be it. you don't have to sit there and do the baby namecalling thing and try to piss me off. I have better things to do in my life that sit here and play bitch games with you. I can talk about cars all day and I actuall like to find out when I am wrong and get my own facts straight but I am not even going to listen to you anymore if you are going to try and talk s**t to me.



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when you beat someone in a civic people wine and make excuses
when you beat someone in a cavalier they pull over and check under thier hoods
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 5:56 PM
Hey! last time I checked this thread was about mighty LN2 rocker arms.

Don't make me take off my belt!!!!






Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 6:02 PM
NUTCASE . wrote:do you have any idea what it takes to take a car from 15's to 14's to 12's. or even what it takes to make a high 11 car go low 11? you tend to learn a few things on the way, like what works and what doesn't. and btw, I only stripped down 2 of my cars so I know exactly how far gutting your interior gets you and that its usually not worth it(for your stripped ferrari comment)
Wow, even after I directly stated that as sarcasm, you still took it all literally. Congrats. Unfortunately I've never had a car long enough to experience that, and there is no replacement for a little expendable $$$ (which I've never really had, hence the baller $300 turbo setup). If you'd like to elaborate on your builds, feel free, everyone here likes hearing about some tricky ish.
NUTCASE . wrote:changing out a stock roller rocker for an aftermarket one of the same ratio will not make you ANY FASTER.
NUTCASE . wrote:yes, ANY reduction will make you a LITTLE faster. do you have any ide what 1hp at the flywheel translates to at the wheeles? hardly .005sec and if your headwind goes up just a little you will still go slower anyways. you rag on me but do YOU even know what it takes to take .2sec off a car??? a hell fo alot more than 1fwhp.
I don't think it's hard to see why what you say may be a little confusing. (Does this seem to parallel the famous VE thread to anyone? ). IMO (and I'm pretty sure just about everyone would agree), every little bit helps, especially if you're shooting for 12s in an NA LN2 powered Cavalier. Oh yeah, that little headwind will make a difference aftermarket rockers or not (once again, sarcasm present), so maybe going with that 5 or 6 degrees more duration was rediculous as well, or that 2 degrees of extra timing, or switching out a compressor housing to gain 5% more efficiency. Maybe that extra half hour of time on the dyno tuning for that extra 5hp and 2 mpg was a waste...where are you going to draw the line? If you want people to understand, you have to be more literal, and throwing more variables at the situation adds nothing to your argument. Oh yeah, it takes 40 .005s to take off .2s
NUTCASE . wrote:whenever you hear someone say "I wish" or " I would like it if" do you go off on the same tangem? I think someone is a little sensative and should go to the doctor to get the sand knocked out of there v****a. now if you want to keep this escalating by throwing these insults back and forth I will just start ignoring you
like I said already, I only brought that up because your post had already been overflowing with ignorance. It's called c-o-m-p-r-h-e-n-s-i-o-n...try it.
NUTCASE . wrote:if I got bad info on that nyjbodies page then so be it. you don't have to sit there and do the baby namecalling thing and try to piss me off. I have better things to do in my life that sit here and play bitch games with you. I can talk about cars all day and I actuall like to find out when I am wrong and get my own facts straight but I am not even going to listen to you anymore if you are going to try and talk s**t to me.
In case you didn't realize it, the only reason I "went off" is because you flat out said I was wrong, without doing adequate research. You're a noob in this particualr field, it's expected that you won't do the proper research before saying something stupid, but when you say someone else is incorrect in the process, you're asking for it.
Now, you can just apologize and we'll stop ruining another of MadJack's excellent OHV threads



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:18 PM






Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:45 PM
Actually, I think this is more of a kinda section lol.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Wednesday, June 07, 2006 5:59 AM
Somebody need some Xanex and a nap.



Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Wednesday, June 07, 2006 6:14 PM
you're right, I'd more expect this kind of bickering from the eco's, not OHV's



Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Thursday, June 08, 2006 8:36 AM
for you Techies here's a good article about Valvetrain Geometry: From Theory To Application.

This is the type of reading I've been doing for years, any wonder I've learned so much!





Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Friday, June 09, 2006 8:49 PM
Finally got a chance to read that link ^^^. Definately a must-read for anyone building their own valvetrain.

Also, I snapped some pics of the 2.2L guideplates on the 2200 head (clicky-clicky):




The holes aren't both centered exactly at the same time (might have something to do with the length of the valves being different and canted), but the bend is exact, and it almost looks like they were planning on using these guideplates on the 2200s.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Friday, June 09, 2006 9:19 PM
Both heads are very similar in design(including the canted valves), thats why the plates are so close to fitting. Like i said, thats why HotRod V6 needed to cut and reweld the guide plates. Not much of a difference, but enough to cause problems if you don't.






Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Tuesday, June 13, 2006 4:28 AM
I thought I'd add this infor here. It's related to info being discussed in another thread, but it's rocker info.

Since the narrow body Crane rockers are similar to rockers used in the 60 deg V6 family, and since there seems to be an issue with some narrow body rockers not being narrow enough in the right places, I happened to measure a set of factory roller fulcrum rockers (1.5 ratio) from a 60 deg V6 today. The distance across the fulcrum on these rockers is 1.330." Madjack and I both posted dimensions for Crane trunions in another thread, but it seems to have disappeared.

-->Slow
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Friday, June 30, 2006 12:40 PM
hey i was thinking and reading some other posts and the such. someone talked about using springs that were to strong and wanted to rip valves right out of the head. also that using strong springs makes the engine work harder.

so here is my question. could i use regular springs for my exhaust ports and some stronger springs for my intake valves so that way i have the engine only doing half the extra effort. not sure if that would make it idle funny or something.

so i am thinking oem springs for exhaust and ls6 springs if they won't try and rip my valves out for the intake for my high boosting.


http://www.helpelijah.com
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:09 PM
Remember, with a turbo sitting on your exhaust manifold, you have pressure on the exhaust side as well, often more than on the intake side (why reversion occurs with valve overlap at lower rpm). The power loss from higher spring rates won't be noticed on a boosted engine, so don't look at it from that perspective.
ALL springs try to rip valves out of the head, it's up to the valves and seats to make sure they don't



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:56 AM
stsperformance.com make a stamped set you just slap them in an forget it.......$200.00 +$20.00 ship....they are 4 a s-10 2200 but should work fine a 2200 is a 2200...????
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:23 AM
Those stamped rockers are not roller fulcrum and while they may be more ratio accurate than stock, most people would prefer the roller fulcrum because they impart less friction and therefore less heat to the engine and oil system. Can you run them? Certainly, but for the $50 extra, considering you'll already be in there anyway, the roller fulcrums are probably worth it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:25 AM



Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:37 AM
Those sre the same as any other stamped roller tip rocker arms, they would just be packaging them with the studs (like the Crane or ARP) to convert from the metric base to the english tiop threads. Going to a stamped steel roller tip on a 2200, won't net you anything, infact you might end up losing power. The stamped rocker arms use the higher friction pivot ball fulcrum, where as the stock rockers on the 2200 are roller fulcrums, the tip does very little to prevent friction.

For about the same cost, you can get the Summit, Jeg's or Proform aluminum rocker arms for a V8 and the ARP studs. Get enough of the studs to do two 4 cyl motors and split the cost with another (or sell) the remaining 8 rockers and studs and you'll save even more.






Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:22 PM
If u had a 2.2 with a stock cam and bottom end and changed to the 1.6 self align rocker and no guide plate and a mild P&P what kind of HP gains would you have? Like 30 to 40 hp or more? I want to do this to my 2.2 but I was wondering what kind of power gains this set up would have with a stock bottom end?
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Monday, May 19, 2008 2:11 AM
It would depend on the port job and more importantly on the tuning. Impossible to say really. PJ made 115 whp with a ported head and all the bolt ons, that ported head also had the JBP valve springs which could very well have been binding also... And that was with the stock cam and rockers, and no tuning (before HPT was available).




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:21 PM
hey i am gonna buy this head and i was wondering what kinda rockers would i use for these specifications because i have no clue about this department


Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:32 PM
Uh, what head would that be you're buying? Does it come with specs for max valve lift (opening) before coil-bind for the springs installed? This would help, as without it we can't tell you anything.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Friday, September 05, 2008 12:19 AM
Well thats the only specs i have i only have pictures so i am not to sure i can ask him
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Friday, September 05, 2008 5:53 AM
um what you just posted a pic of is specs for a camshaft not a head. If you didn't know
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Friday, September 05, 2008 11:43 AM
The max valve lift is 501 he said
Re: 2.2/2200 OHV Rocker Arm List
Friday, September 05, 2008 2:56 PM
Jack, Notec, I don't like you both, making me spend money, lol.


but at the same time, you guys are my heros! thank you both, this has helped me out alot going over this thread a few times, now I know which rockers I'll be getting for my ln2 build.



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