Does anybody know the best place to buy injectors for a 95 ln2.
And would it be better to find a set that fit in the intake, or just bore out the intake and attach a modified rail and top feed. Also, are the 95 peak and hold or saturated. I'm working on a SC project, and not sure if the stockies can take the supercharger very well.
Top feed is easiest.
I haven't yet found side feed injectors that I'm sure are reasonably sized. I'm using 52 #/hr TBI units with the pressure turned down and different injector drivers. I have a part number for some injectors which were for sale on Ebay. They carried the evil V---- brand name, but they were listed as 360cc units according to the sticker on the box, and that's more than 10% larger than the stock specs for the 95. Look 'em up for a 96 Beretta / Corsica. Maybe you can get confirmation from the supplier on the flow rating and pressure.
The other place to look is if you can find specs for injectors used in South America. With the high alcohol content they may use injectors capable of flowing more fuel.
-->Slow
Can you get me a part number and give me an idea how to integrate this into the 6285 6395 pcm's.
Im thinking of swapping to a 6395 pcm because it has a ln2 mt 4cyl 0D mask, and my buddies over at thirdgen.org have the 0d fully mapped almost.
RC Injectors I believe can do something with the stockers. Per their web site they have side-feed injectors, but this is the only car I've ever owned with side feeds so I honestly don't know if they're the same design as other side feeds.
But the top-feed conversion is pretty straight-forward. There are a few posts about this. Apparently the angle of the injector ports is the same as the 2200 and by boring the ports and installing new O-rings you can make the 2200 rail and injectors fit, but you'll need a spacer to let the TB pulley rotate to WOT.
I don't have a part number. he injectors are from a 91 - 94 Saturn SOHC 1.9L TBI engine. They were only available from Saturn and the cost was somewhere around $190 per injector. I fished mine out of junkyard cars.
If your ecm supports peak and hold injectors, you may be able to modify
these instructions. The resistance for the TBI injectors is about 1.2 Ohms each. You'll need that when calculating the sense resistor values.
In the past RC hasn't been able to do anything with the Cavvy side feeds. They may have a catalog with flow numbers which would allow you to locate something close to 30#/hr replacement injectors.
I really, really recommend the top feed conversion.
-->Slow
i have been fighting with this issue for quite awhile now myself and after buying a 2200 manifold and trying to come up with an adapter plate, trying to find other sidefed injectors, calling and talking to RC, and just about every other option i have decided to do the top feed. it will by far be the easiest way.
http://www.helpelijah.com
I have a set of 42#/hr top feed injectors donated to the project. Is it simply boring out the 2200 rail or do you have to bore out the head as well.
I dont mind boring out the injection ports, as i've got all kinds of tools to do it, and as for fuel rail, i'll most likely develop something that i dont have to upgrade the TB to make it work.
Does anyone have pictures of a top feed conversion? Maybe the work that needs to change?
Here's a couple of pics of a top feed conversion by Emry. He blew the motor under boost and sold the car.
These are without the plenum spacer needed for throttle clearance. Something I need to get back to work on.
Quote:
He blew the motor under boost and sold the car.
Was this posted??? Where?? I seem to miss all sorts of news.
Very sad day for Emry.
-->Slow
slowolej wrote:Quote:
He blew the motor under boost and sold the car.
Was this posted??? Where?? I seem to miss all sorts of news. Very sad day for Emry.
-->Slow
It was a while ago. I remember seeing it here but I don't know if he ever posted on JBOI or not. Too bad, I wanted to drive down and check out the conversion. I was wanting to do the same thing.
You know, I've pretty much given up on doing anyhting else with my car but my friends keep pushing me to go through with the turbo setup I was planning. The other night we got to talking about different things, one of which being the top feed conversion. Rather than finding someone to machine a spacer out of aluminum, what do you guys think of making one out of plastic? Not cheap plastic but something strong like a polycarbonate or something of that nature. It'd cut the cost down considerably and a composite would absorb less heat too.
You could do that or you could use a dense wood. It's not uncommon to see wood carb spacers.
I checked out some web site that someone here had a link to and they had Edelbrock spacers listed for the Cavalier, and come to think of it they were wood. I wasn't sure about using wood - the whole flammable soak up moisture thing kind of made me wonder.
what about the phenolic stuff the guys are using for their 2.3HO manifold conversions?
Ok i see the pictures, it seems simple enough. As for the Fuel rail, cant one just use fuel lines that are sealed to the injectors and then meet up 4 2 1 style, the fpr could be placed inline with a cheap ebay one.
Just a thought, or do i have to make a fuel rail, i hate stock components.
Madjack says :
Quote:
you could use a dense wood. It's not uncommon to see wood carb spacers.
and In2Johnny replies :
Quote:
I wasn't sure about using wood - the whole flammable soak up moisture thing kind of made me wonder.
I've been thinking about this. Wood's been around forever, and it does work for carb spacers. For EFI I'd probably coat it with bunches of urethane sealer. But I never have liked it.
But I wonder about "engineered wood." They sell it at hardware stores to replace wood in decks and porches. It's some type of recycled plastic, works in all weathers, UV resistant, good for half a million years (maybe less). It's available in pieces 1" thick and 6" wide and supposedly can be handled and worked just like wood. I think 2 tests are in order. Testing to see if it dissolves or softens in gasoline, and testing to see if it softens considerably when heated.
CSmyth:
Quote:
i hate stock components.
So why are you messing with a stock intake manifold??? Design something which works with your new supercharger and has the locations for injectors built in. If you really need to replace the rail, you can buy unmachined fuel rail stock. Holley used to sell it, edelbrock might. I've even seen pieces on Ebay.
-->Slow
Well its not so much as hating stock, more as the custom look you get when you CNC a part, and even better is the WOW thats pimp where'd you buy it response.
I was thinking of some easy way to run the injection without having to do much modifying, but i may still throw the m90 on a custom mani, complete with injectors.
When it gets here, i'll take some measurements.
As far as injectors go i know i need to keep them angled, my question would then be does runner length matter with the SC?
ln2johnny wrote: I wasn't sure about using wood - the whole flammable soak up moisture thing kind of made me wonder.
slowolej wrote: I've been thinking about this. Wood's been around forever, and it does work for carb spacers. For EFI I'd probably coat it with bunches of urethane sealer.
Remember the plenum is upstream from the fuel injectors, it won't have contact with any fuel.
slowolej wrote: But I wonder about "engineered wood." They sell it at hardware stores to replace wood in decks and porches. It's some type of recycled plastic, works in all weathers, UV resistant, good for half a million years (maybe less). It's available in pieces 1" thick and 6" wide and supposedly can be handled and worked just like wood. I think 2 tests are in order. Testing to see if it dissolves or softens in gasoline, and testing to see if it softens considerably when heated.
Not to be confused with particle board though!
Most of that stuff I've seen is the same plastic as soda bottles, which don't hold up to heat very well. It would be worth a try, but I think I'm going to stick to wood myself.
Wood has good insulating properties and on our applications, it won't get fuel soaked, unless you run a wet shot nitrous system, then I'd coat it with urethane. Making one out of wood, I'd make it a bit larger around the perimeter, like VTLoki made his aluminum spacer, for added rigidity.
This got me to work! I had to run down to the local Ace Hardware and pickup some wood. Cut it down and did some drawing work and used a coping saw to rough it in. Then the mosquitos came out. This is how far I got:
Of course there's more work to do, but it's a start. It's just a peice of pressure treated 1"X4", with the gasket centered up and traced onto it and cut. Be sure to make sure the gasket isn't curved inward towards the center, otherwise it won't line up.
BTW, I'm not a wood-craftsman, just using some
old tools that were given to me.
How will the wood take to the pressures of boost.
Thats my concern. I'd make an entire mani out of wood if it could take it.
those are top fed injectors i believe according to the picture.
they wouldn't fit without boring out the bungs.
http://www.helpelijah.com
Sean,
Have you been keeping up with the topic, it has shifted to top feeds. That's not the problem, the problem is are they the same kind as the stock pcm can utilize without ballast resistors.
I'm thinking on the 95 these match the spec's but im not sure hence the post here.
I want something i wont have to add hardware to in order to make them function, as in plug in replacement for the pcm, i do realize i will have to plumb and run a new fuel rail, fpr, probably a what 1:8 1:12.
The spacer won't be in direct contact with gasiline, no. But it does have to deal with vapors from the crankcase, some vaporized fuel, and possibly EGR. And if the application has boost that's only one more factor to contend with. I'm not against wood, only working out the considerations.
One thing I learned yesterday about pressure treated wood is that it's treated with a copper based solution (might explain the green color). I know this because the bag of coated steel screws I purchased had a warning label saying they shouldn't be used in pressure treated wood with aluminum roofing (common practice is to use coated steel screws and aluminum roofing) due to galvanic action through the dissimilar metals. The end result will be corrosion and eventual failure of the screws. Now... I don't know if they're talking about failure in 50 years, or 5 years, or 1 year. I only thought it worth noting. And now I see that you're using PT wood, so I thought I'd pass it along.
Back on topic:
The 95 uses saturated injectors.
-->Slow
