Hit up the dyno this past weekend, Jersey J body dyno day.
I ran my ole 99 Z24 AUTO...yeeaahhhh
I'm sure the vids will be up soon, and you can see how my car almost "ran away"
Quick specs on the car:
1) Intake and Exhaust cams are 200 @ 375
2) MD Ld9 lightened crank pulley
3) 2.5" magnaflow cat and 2.5" custom catback w/ factory flowing style muffler
4) TTR upper and lower mounts
5) Ebay AEM style intake
NO header, NO ported head, NO hstqc
Temps were good. Low humidity. Dyno machine was running strong.
Factory manifold and factory tb, first go around results
SEE RED LINE:
141 hp, 144 tq
So we're feeling good. Not as big a loss as I personally was expecting.
Next we had to get the HO manifold on there. Reminder so folks know what it looks like.
Shouts to J. Law for the extra help, tools, etc.
Manifold goes on, started up, got the usual bouncing rpm deal, no biggie, just a quick tightening on the bolts, car is happy, and we're good to go.
For this run, we have the HO intake manifold, and HO tb:
Results are.............
SEE BLUE LINE
134 hp, 134 tq!!!!
So there was definately a loss with the manifold.
Now, of course the car sounded meaner and the mani looked sweet under the hood.
But,
For my ride, having it as a bolt on, with no other true internal engine work for flow, the factory set up wins out.
Shouts go out to:.........
Paul N/A "master welder" Madness Tjep. for the paint, sanding job, and catback
K. "seceret cam" Bordeaux for the manifold.
J. "turbo Sundance" Law again for helping get the car ready for the HO dyno
Col. "GXP" Festa for setting the dyno day up.
Crazy Horse for their time and facilities
Jersey J's for holding it down for the domestic GMs.
Mother Nature for holding off on all the snow and rain.
And to all of you who read this post.
All comments welcome
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
Thanks for posting this. I bet the result on a boosted car would show a gain due to the air not having to make a 180degree bend before going into the intake.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
WOW..... But, you have secret cams.. I wanna see a stock motor with stock intake, vs a stock motor with HO intake... I wonder if there will be a difference in numbers then?
*looks at my HO mani* *shakes head*
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
Very usefull to know... anyone done the same with the venom mani?
I could totally believe an NA car posting a loss and a boosted car posting a gain with this manifold.
As said, it still looks 100x better when cleaned up and done right.
Probably a diff in the hp and tq numbers gap.
Since the factory cams, esp the exhaust is so much smaller.
For mine, its like a 1:1 ratio with the cam specs being the same.
Which almost eliminates them as a factor all together.
But I could be wrong in my thinking on that.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
Also,
We all know its on secret the kickassness of those 086 heads.
Talking with the store owner, he could see why those cars would benefit from the mani in general principle
Still, I wanna get back there, or to another dyno and check out the RSM 62mm.
And again with the ported head that needs put on the car.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
Interesting indeed...That graph explains the massive pull I felt in my cav around 3500rpms with the secret cams in there.
M-
Your ported head is sitting in my garage prepped and ready to go. Are you still selling it? Sorry I've been pretty busy lately, I have to get my sh@# together and ship that stuff to you if you are still planning on selling it.
C
-da chinchilla
on another note...was the computer reset after installing the HO manifold? I would think you would want to drive the car a while and put a few hundred miles on it for the computer to readjust before dynoing for true results....no?
-da chinchilla
i can see why there would be a loss.
here is my thing though...
was your car tuned to run the bigger manifold?
you have increased the volume of air flow quite a bit by adding the larger manifold and without a tune to compensate for that, it would make sense for you to loose power.
just like when you install an intake or an exhaust or cams, or just about anything, you change the characteristics of the engine and you need to comepensate for that with a good tune to utilize what changes you have made.
personally i dont think a tune would have made a big improvement if you were tuning only for the manifold. i dont see changes to the tune making up for those losses. do i think the numbers would have been better then they were, ya i do, but still not as good as without it.
i just thought id add my 2 cents... regaurdless its good info to have to prove/disprove this manifold.
1997 RedR - ZedR
i ran pretty much the same 1/4 times with both intakes , but when i switched back to the stock the motor felt better and started getting rubber in 2nd again
RexN: The battery had to come out to get the intake pipe, filter, etc on there.
I mean, it was off the car long enough where things should have been cleared out.
Having said that, the shop was closing down, so I didn't drive around for the computer to relearn.
And I'll need all the stuff back, only because I'll need it for a mock up for something else I have in mind.
I did land another job though, thank goodness.
Whitegoose: There were a couple guys with the HPT I was REALLY hoping to get even a little tune on the car. But no luck.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
I have to admit, this kinda makes me giggle at all the people who have worshipped this manifold for so long...
Mastin, since I don't see A/F ratio on your graph, was it richer/leaner/same between the runs? If your A/F was significantly leaner on the HO run, I could see where maybe tuning would undo or at least make up for the loss, but with such a significant loss, I dare say that even with pretty significant NA mods, this isn't going to be beneficial... With boost, maybe.....
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
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'Nuff said
Its H.O.,
The plenum is the give away.
And actually,
With the welded flange, I didn't have the clearance issue I normally get with these things and my auto.
Issue being, with the HO trottle body.
There is a group of wires/loom around the auto tranny area, just under the brake fluid resovoir, near the brake booster line,
When the tb is bolted up, the lever/arm tends to rub against the wire looms and will sometimes not allow the plate to close.
So I usually have to stack gaskets, or get a flange just for the clearance.
Didn't have this problem this time.
It was close, but everything cleared with the looms and tb lever perfect.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
I notice you have an aluminum 2.4 flange wielded to the HO manifold. I wonder how heat soak plays a role in the difference in horsepower. They say you lose 1 or 2% of your total power for every 10 degree increase. I would be interested to see one dynoed with a phenolic flange.
Nah, no air fuel.
The place was going over time so we just wanted to get the thing run.
So basically however the car runs, thats what it did.
And you figure, the average person won't/can't get a tune anyway so what is, is.
-M
Remember....syringes go in the RED waste basket.
Man Ive been saying this for years.
The H.O. mani is off a motor that produces 30 more hp and reves higher.... it is not matched to the 2.4 at all in near stock form...... look at the difference in the 2.3 H.O. cams lift and duration.........
Thank you for doing this....
"Go Before Show Yo."
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Mastin wrote:
Shouts go out to:.........
Paul N/A "master welder" Madness Tjep. for the paint, sanding job, and catback
K. "seceret cam" Bordeaux for the manifold.
J. "turbo Sundance" Law again for helping get the car ready for the HO dyno
Col. "GXP" Festa for setting the dyno day up.
Crazy Horse for their time and facilities
Jersey J's for holding it down for the domestic GMs.
Mother Nature for holding off on all the snow and rain.
And to all of you who read this post.
All comments welcome
-M
I like that one
anyway
Glad I could lend a hand man, let me know when you plan on coming back this way it was fun.
SATCH PROGRESS THREAD!!!
In Loving Memory of Phil Martin December 14 2005
Alexis: Dustin, you're ghey, lol. I am better. I have tits, and tits rule all.
Whats really wierd is my car had EXACT same dyno numbers as yours Mastin with the HO manifold on my car.... I really would like to see how it does now with a way better AFR.
I have to go with how my car reacted to the HO manifold when had my engine built for the S/C (it was off because it puked all its fluid), but I noticed a huge difference between the stock manifold and the HO manifold (a big part of this may have been related to the TB). I had a ported head, HO cams, 10:1 CR, 2.3 oil pump swap, 4-1 header, and 2.5" exhaust. With the stock manifold and TB the car would fall on its face at 4500 RPM, it ripped hard up to 4500 and then would just stop pulling as if i hit the speed limiter (every gear btw). When i installed my HO manifold (off of a SCX) and 60mm ported 2.3L TB the car pulled all the way to 6000RPM. Now I was running the S/C reflash for this whole time. I rather suspect that the modification to my engine were the reason for the difference, where as a stock motor probably cant benefit from the manifold.
You would have probably had better numbers after the computer had a chance to adjust to the changes. Also if you remove power from the PCM it will have to relearn a fair bit of things before it is running the way the program wants it to.
BTW those look like some decent numbers for an auto.
Thanks Mastin for posting nice good results including numbers. I agree with Scarab, maybe difference could be made up with some tuning, but that is a large loss to makeup.
Whitegoose,
Letting the ECU relearn should not effect results while in PE Mode (on dyno @ WOT)
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Mitsu TD06-20g |3" Downpipe w/ Cutout | 61mm Bored TB |
HP Tuners | Innovate WB02 | Spec Stage 3 | TurboTech Upper | Full Addco Sways | Sportlines & Yellows |
i agree with J, one of the most overblown mani swaps ever, finally proven to be a downgrade.
now all we need is a boost side-by-side comparison to really lay the debate to rest.
good work mastin
MASTIN FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!
now i dont feel so bad for going with my venom.
but guys just think of it this way, sure the HO mani doesnt help on a 2.4, but what happens when you take away the HO mani on a 2.3 and put on a stock 2.4? id be willing to bet that engine would fall on its face and become useless. the manifold was designed for a much higher reving engine with WAY more performance in mind. it doesnt surprise me one bit that iyou car lost power. more air aint always a good thing.
another thing i think needs to be pointed out here, mastin's manifold has an EXACT 2.4 matching flange welded onto it, so there should be zero question on weather or not it matches. IMO its the best way to use the HO mani with a 2.4 head.
and mastin, thanks a lot for doing this... finally somebody did it. you can always hold that up high man, you finally put a myth to bed.
