LD9 Cams list - Page 2 - Performance Forum

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Re: LD9 Cams list
Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:30 PM
Beau wrote:

Does anyone know what the Integra Type-R's Vtec cam profiles are with the high rpm lobe set? Just so I can compare.

Honestly guys these cams are the best things you can do for your 2.4. But I cannot believe I'm seeing such incredible duration. 260s @ .50! : O
Whats the idle RPM set at with those things 1400 rpm? :}


Intake 11.5mm 240* @ 1mm / .452" 240* @ .039
Exhaust 10.5mm 235*@1mm / .413" 235* @ .039


_________________________________________________________________
EFFICIENCY DETECTIVE
Fast cars. I respect them ALL. Brand elitism is for fanbois and benchracers

daily: 99 civic Si
deceased: 95 cavy '00 LD9 auto swap (vandalized)

Re: LD9 Cams list
Monday, January 14, 2008 1:02 PM
sounds like my LG0 cams i have siting somewere.

intake .452/233
ext .433/232

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Re: LD9 Cams list
Friday, April 08, 2011 9:27 PM
I know this post is old but think this question would fit in here and be good info if any on has it.

Does anyone know what the valve over lap is like for these cams. To simplify the "secret cam swap" and how they interact with turbocharging.

here are some quick sketches of SB350 chevy turbo and NA cams
Thanks

Re: LD9 Cams list
Saturday, April 09, 2011 7:03 AM
this is as best i can find....


Re: LD9 Cams list
Saturday, April 09, 2011 8:44 AM
According to desktop dyno's cam manager HO cams have 31 degrees of overlap and W41s have 35 degrees.



Re: LD9 Cams list
Sunday, April 10, 2011 1:39 PM
At what point would the stock ECM need recalibrated? I've had a set of 200* @.050 .375" lift cams for years now, and it hasn't idled right since, runs like a bat out of hell from 3k+ though.



Re: LD9 Cams list
Sunday, April 10, 2011 2:31 PM
Thanks guys, thats not to shabby.

Ender, Really all that would happen is that it may change the vacuum which could put you in a different area of you fuel map at idle, an area that may have not got a lot of tuning attention from GM during their map development. Could be a litte lean, these cars dont like lean idle. What is you AFR?
Re: LD9 Cams list
Sunday, April 10, 2011 2:35 PM
Ender_Wiggin wrote:

At what point would the stock ECM need recalibrated?


stock.
Re: LD9 Cams list
Sunday, April 10, 2011 2:40 PM
No idea on AFR, if anything I think I'm running more rich than lean. Using a step colder plugs, (RapidFire 12's) vs the stock 41-942's. Gapped at factory .060". Didn't seem to make any difference with the stock plugs, and it feels like the car actually runs better with the RapidFires. I'd like to try some sort of Iridium's, best I could find to our stocks was a 41-110 used in LS Series engines. Since I'm no longer using stock Coils/Pack Housing, the difference in plug length doesn't matter. The reach looks identical for the 2, but I don't know what the heat range is. It doesn't always idle like crap either, but seems worse when it's warmer out.



Re: LD9 Cams list
Sunday, April 10, 2011 5:25 PM
Cams that small shouldn't affect idle too much. Might give it a little bit of lope but nothing extreme. And any cam will appereciate a tune.



Re: LD9 Cams list
Sunday, April 10, 2011 6:37 PM
I figured as such, kind of wondering what the problem could be then.




Re: LD9 Cams list
Sunday, April 10, 2011 10:58 PM
Jamie S wrote:

Thanks guys, thats not to shabby.

Ender, Really all that would happen is that it may change the vacuum which could put you in a different area of you fuel map at idle, an area that may have not got a lot of tuning attention from GM during their map development. Could be a litte lean, these cars dont like lean idle. What is you AFR?


a cam with more overlap and more duration and less idle vac with not idle lean, they will idle richer. In order to get a large cam to idle well tuning will have to be done to VE tables, and add in some base timing advance.


_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
Re: LD9 Cams list
Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:40 AM
Re: LD9 Cams list
Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:47 PM
Justin Inc

Not necessarily will it idle rich or lean due to just the cam. The cam changes the amount of air flow/ breathing ability through the engine at any given condition. Depending on the lobe overlap, if this decreases or increases the vacuum in the engine at that condition, it will change the MAP sensor value, directly affecting the VE/fuel map hence my comment about potentially running lean. A crappy idle which is not smelling rich or belching black smoke is most likely a lean idle. If that particular bin in the map did not have good smoothing characteristics applied to it from GM, the car very well could run lean or rich depending in what bin it falls in (up or down on a typical VE map) and the value in that bin primarily. Cams will directly affect the input values to the fuel control algorithm on a speed density system (map sensor). The output value (in simple terms, the number in that bin which gets calculated into the algorithm) determines how lean or rich the engine will run.

Not trying to sound like a jerk. Just want to clear any questions up.
Re: LD9 Cams list
Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:07 PM
I forgot to add something.

I have developed maps on my car using Megasquirt ECU running 18PSI daily driven no whimpy turbo either. I typically never see a poor running condition unless the AFR is 10.5 or lower under load. I can run as low as 11:1 AFR at idle not causing a crappy idle. On the other hand even a 15:1 AFR at idle will cause a stumble. I run my idle settings around 12.5 to 13:1 mostly because I am running 1000cc injectors at about 1msec duration, cant go much lower

I doubt the cams pushed the AFR below 10:1.

Ender,
Is it always acting up when it is warm or hit and mis?
Re: LD9 Cams list
Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:09 PM
Jamie S wrote:

Justin Inc

Not necessarily will it idle rich or lean due to just the cam. The cam changes the amount of air flow/ breathing ability through the engine at any given condition. Depending on the lobe overlap, if this decreases or increases the vacuum in the engine at that condition, it will change the MAP sensor value, directly affecting the VE/fuel map hence my comment about potentially running lean. A crappy idle which is not smelling rich or belching black smoke is most likely a lean idle. If that particular bin in the map did not have good smoothing characteristics applied to it from GM, the car very well could run lean or rich depending in what bin it falls in (up or down on a typical VE map) and the value in that bin primarily. Cams will directly affect the input values to the fuel control algorithm on a speed density system (map sensor). The output value (in simple terms, the number in that bin which gets calculated into the algorithm) determines how lean or rich the engine will run.

Not trying to sound like a jerk. Just want to clear any questions up.


Jamie S wrote:

I forgot to add something.

I have developed maps on my car using Megasquirt ECU running 18PSI daily driven no whimpy turbo either. I typically never see a poor running condition unless the AFR is 10.5 or lower under load. I can run as low as 11:1 AFR at idle not causing a crappy idle. On the other hand even a 15:1 AFR at idle will cause a stumble. I run my idle settings around 12.5 to 13:1 mostly because I am running 1000cc injectors at about 1msec duration, cant go much lower

I doubt the cams pushed the AFR below 10:1.

Ender,
Is it always acting up when it is warm or hit and mis?


Really? I had no clue what putting a cam into an engine actually does. Nice to know that it increases air flow.

In reality and not trying to be a dick here, but any cam that has more overlap and duration that will lower idle vac is going to make it is going to make it idle richer under 90% of circumstances unless you tune it. Having a cam with more overlap than factory is a key contributor to this, and is probably one of the major reasons that tuning idle can be such a pain in the ass.

I'll explain why

Cam overlap is the period of time, measured in crankshaft degrees, in which both the intake and exhaust valves are open. At low RPM, this allows some of the fresh intake charge (i.e. unburned fuel and air) to leave the combustion chamber via the exhaust. It can cause a car to smell like fuel when idling, depending on how much overlap there is.

Now, keep in mind that there is an oxygen sensor that measures the amount of oxygen present in the exhaust stream. When it detects the unburned intake charge from the high-overlap cam, it tells the ECM that there is a lean condition (assuming closed loop is enabled). The ECU then changes to compensate for this "phantom lean condition." As it does this it is essentially dumping extra, unneeded fuel into the engine because the ECM thinks it's needed and pretty soon your car will smell like a gas station AND it'll cause all sorts of unusual characteristics at idle.

Now i'm not talking about going from say a stock ld9 cam to a set of secret cams here, i'm talking about going from stock ld9 cams to say a HO or even W41 or bigger.

I'm not meaning rich to the point of belching black smoke, etc (even though that can be the case on large cams). Just because on your vehicle 10:1 afr is the point where you notice things, doesnt mean another engine will see poor symptoms at say 12:1afr, remember AFR is a number and only one of the few key contributing factors here. Remember, no two engines are the same, one may like something, the other may not. So this is a long overdrawn explination that VE is not everything and larger cams most of the time like more base timing advance.

Ender:

Ditch the 'fancy gimmick' plugs, go to a set of NGK/Delco Copper plugs, gap them @ .045 and get a tune done. You are not gaining anything by fancy plugs trust me. I've spent countless hours of dyno time messing around with plugs, wire, ect trying to get an edge on the competition by picking up a hp or two any way i could, and i've never seen a fancy plug make more power than a regular copper plug, and i have seen 'fancy' plugs lose power! Also, not sure what your mod list is, by why the colder plugs? are they needed?


_______________________
** Flat Broke Racing Inc.**
Re: LD9 Cams list
Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:08 AM
Jamie S wrote:

I forgot to add something.

I have developed maps on my car using Megasquirt ECU running 18PSI daily driven no whimpy turbo either. I typically never see a poor running condition unless the AFR is 10.5 or lower under load. I can run as low as 11:1 AFR at idle not causing a crappy idle. On the other hand even a 15:1 AFR at idle will cause a stumble. I run my idle settings around 12.5 to 13:1 mostly because I am running 1000cc injectors at about 1msec duration, cant go much lower

I doubt the cams pushed the AFR below 10:1.

Ender,
Is it always acting up when it is warm or hit and mis?

Hit or miss atm, but it's pretty typical once the RPM's go down after startup (the semi warm-up). Some days worse than others in how bad it is (typically temp related).



Re: LD9 Cams list
Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:13 AM
Justin_Inc wrote:

Jamie S wrote:

Justin Inc

Not necessarily will it idle rich or lean due to just the cam. The cam changes the amount of air flow/ breathing ability through the engine at any given condition. Depending on the lobe overlap, if this decreases or increases the vacuum in the engine at that condition, it will change the MAP sensor value, directly affecting the VE/fuel map hence my comment about potentially running lean. A crappy idle which is not smelling rich or belching black smoke is most likely a lean idle. If that particular bin in the map did not have good smoothing characteristics applied to it from GM, the car very well could run lean or rich depending in what bin it falls in (up or down on a typical VE map) and the value in that bin primarily. Cams will directly affect the input values to the fuel control algorithm on a speed density system (map sensor). The output value (in simple terms, the number in that bin which gets calculated into the algorithm) determines how lean or rich the engine will run.

Not trying to sound like a jerk. Just want to clear any questions up.


Jamie S wrote:

I forgot to add something.

I have developed maps on my car using Megasquirt ECU running 18PSI daily driven no whimpy turbo either. I typically never see a poor running condition unless the AFR is 10.5 or lower under load. I can run as low as 11:1 AFR at idle not causing a crappy idle. On the other hand even a 15:1 AFR at idle will cause a stumble. I run my idle settings around 12.5 to 13:1 mostly because I am running 1000cc injectors at about 1msec duration, cant go much lower

I doubt the cams pushed the AFR below 10:1.

Ender,
Is it always acting up when it is warm or hit and mis?


Really? I had no clue what putting a cam into an engine actually does. Nice to know that it increases air flow.

In reality and not trying to be a dick here, but any cam that has more overlap and duration that will lower idle vac is going to make it is going to make it idle richer under 90% of circumstances unless you tune it. Having a cam with more overlap than factory is a key contributor to this, and is probably one of the major reasons that tuning idle can be such a pain in the ass.

I'll explain why

Cam overlap is the period of time, measured in crankshaft degrees, in which both the intake and exhaust valves are open. At low RPM, this allows some of the fresh intake charge (i.e. unburned fuel and air) to leave the combustion chamber via the exhaust. It can cause a car to smell like fuel when idling, depending on how much overlap there is.

Now, keep in mind that there is an oxygen sensor that measures the amount of oxygen present in the exhaust stream. When it detects the unburned intake charge from the high-overlap cam, it tells the ECM that there is a lean condition (assuming closed loop is enabled). The ECU then changes to compensate for this "phantom lean condition." As it does this it is essentially dumping extra, unneeded fuel into the engine because the ECM thinks it's needed and pretty soon your car will smell like a gas station AND it'll cause all sorts of unusual characteristics at idle.

Now i'm not talking about going from say a stock ld9 cam to a set of secret cams here, i'm talking about going from stock ld9 cams to say a HO or even W41 or bigger.

I'm not meaning rich to the point of belching black smoke, etc (even though that can be the case on large cams). Just because on your vehicle 10:1 afr is the point where you notice things, doesnt mean another engine will see poor symptoms at say 12:1afr, remember AFR is a number and only one of the few key contributing factors here. Remember, no two engines are the same, one may like something, the other may not. So this is a long overdrawn explination that VE is not everything and larger cams most of the time like more base timing advance.

Ender:

Ditch the 'fancy gimmick' plugs, go to a set of NGK/Delco Copper plugs, gap them @ .045 and get a tune done. You are not gaining anything by fancy plugs trust me. I've spent countless hours of dyno time messing around with plugs, wire, ect trying to get an edge on the competition by picking up a hp or two any way i could, and i've never seen a fancy plug make more power than a regular copper plug, and i have seen 'fancy' plugs lose power! Also, not sure what your mod list is, by why the colder plugs? are they needed?

Idea on the "colder" plugs was just another AC Delco that it called for in Platinum. The stock ones did the same thing. Was trying to smooth idle by hoping to burn more fuel off, but that apparently isn't going to work. These cams have been in the car for over 5 years now, and it's been an on and off problem. I haven't gotten it tuned for 2 reasons, one was that I couldn't afford the $650 for HP Tuners, and the other was finding someone in my area who could actually do it. As for my Mod's list, it's on my profile.



Re: LD9 Cams list
Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:21 AM
Justin Inc
I never said you were wrong. I was just putting 2 important things together, one of which you left out which could be misleading to others. I am well aware of what 02 sensors do. Not quite sure if you caught it in my earlier reply. Building and Tuning “megasquirt “ yeah I know what every sensor on the engine does and engine theory and fundamentals. I have read countless books and papers on internal combustion theory and fundamentals. It is my Job, and so is dyno research and development for over a decade. I agree with you in many ways in you statements.

Tuning idle on a performance car, yeah can be a pain in the ass. Open loop is much easier. The response on the EGO sensor can be to slow at idle and cause a lot of “hunting” when in closed loop. This is in many cases what happens on stock ECM when making quite extensive modifications, cams, injectors engine machining….. Again reiterating my comment on map development and how anything you to the engine is an input to the ecm. The ecm will only respond how it is told to by the engine sensors and the tune.

I agree with you, it is ideal to have a tune performed on Ender’s car and spark plugs do nothing for hp. certainly on a N/A car. Forced induction is another story, this is when heat range plays a big role in detonation.

Enough on the back and forth argument because there is a lot of theory involved and people can always argue theory. Facts Justin Inc, I never said you were wrong, just elaborating and sharing experience which is the point of these forums, to help! it seems every one on here takes things to the point of arguing that is why i always say "not being a jerk", just adding esperience.

Back to basic trouble shooting,
Ender, If you don’t have a wide band EGO, start your car and let it idle till it is about a quarter way warm. Pull the plugs out and check if they are all black (rich), even the electrode and smell a little like fuel. This is the warm up enrichment portion of your ecm program it should be a little rich. They should be on the dark side. If they are light/white that is lean (lean idle can be a little choppy).
Then, put them back in and start the car and let it idle till it is all the way warm and repeat the steps above. The plug should be brownish color, potentially a little lighter for an ideal fuel mixture when warm. If the plug is super white, that is lean, the engine will stumble. Car may need a tune. Good luck keep us posted.
Re: LD9 Cams list
Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:16 PM
Well, the previous plugged when pulled out looked normal, after about a year or so of being in the car. If anything, the outside (non electrode) is black, but the middle is a light brownish color, and looks good according to the charts I have. Stock plugs were the same way.



Re: LD9 Cams list
Friday, February 01, 2019 4:49 AM
Anyone know the specs on 87-88 cams, with the steel lined lifter bores?






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