Alot of threadin' & postin' has been goin'-on over what should one do to improve upon the ol' vulnerable anvil of J-car engines, the LN2. So just to clear-up some of the space, and help those who've got the itch to do it, let's hear from any & all of you serious about buildin'-up the ol' Double-deuce as to what you've done, what for & why you did it, or just what you're considering doin'.
Now, just to nudge the ball, here's my story:
I have two (Yes, count 'em... two) GM S-trucks that are powered by D-D's, and from the moment I bought the first fuel milage has benn the primary concern. A lil' more power be nice too, but since the reason for the reason is a limited budget (LIke: None!) I'll settle for just getting further along for now. So, this is what I'm gonna do:
1.6 Roller-rocker conversion: More lift with a short cam = more low-end torque, which means less tip-in needed just to get it rollin'.
Header: The better you can get the spent gases out, the less diluted the incoming charge will be, requiring less fuel to be part of it to make it lightable.
Exhaust: Nothin' crazy here, just a system sized just large enough to match Mr. Vizard's rule of CFM@"X"in of drop to be double of what the engine's peak HP will be. And quiet!
Inlet tract: A K&N with a well-fabbed FAI (Fresh-Air Intake) system to collect oncoming air as the truck moves down the road to help feed the engine all the cooler air it may ever want to breathe. I've done that before & it paid-off well, so I'll do it again.
Ignition: MSD DIS-2 system. Ran a 6A box on a larger engine with TBI once, got a 20% increase in mileage from it alone. And since the older of the two gets 24.5avg, you can imagine how this will help me!
After all that, maybe (If the moeny's there) I'll get the 'ware to optimize the tuning, just to see how far I can go & stay reliable. 30mpg is my goal, and I may just reach it.
Okay guys, I've done mine... Now let's hear about yours.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
I no longer have my LN2, but I've toyed with the following build just for fun -
Stock bottom end
Agressively ported head w/ over sized valves and 1.6:1 rocker conversion
Custom cam grind for turbo application (higher lift, less overlap) - I'd have to consult an expert on this one
Something like the RDFabs turbo manifold w/ a GT3076R mounted to it
HPT
60lb injectors
couple hours of dyno tuning
This would yield about 250-300whp. I believe this turbo is ultimately good for ~400bhp of flow. Back in the day when the JTuners kit was available, that was my first choice because of the sexy manifold and its nice to see its been somewhat reproduced. And with folks like Jazer and ImPhat pushing this bottom end, it'd be nice to see what the real limit is.
Like everyone says - if it wasn't for the restrictive top end of this engine, it would be great for boost on this platform. Its simple, relatively low compression and has a stout bottom end.
That's a pretty nice build you've got there, oldskool. Anyone else? I know you're out there, so speak-up!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Well, I've been recovering financially from moving out and having two huge housewarming parties, so I haven't actually DONE anything but think and theorize and plot, but here's what I'd ultimately like to do to the LN2 just to see what its capable of;
-Hand-ported head (probably going to do this myself, not to save money so much as to gain experience and mostly because I'm the only person who I trust to handle anything on my car), using my cut-up head as a template for what to, and not to do.
-Replace valve guides with bronze
-K-Motion K700 springs with 2.2 valves, shimmed for proper installed height.
-Titanium keepers, new locks
-1mm Oversized on intake and exhaust valves
-Deshroud valves if and where possible
-Polish combustion chamber
-Possibly try grooving the quench pad (Look up Somender Singh as suggested to me by Notec... not really a lot of concrete data but since i'm doing the porting myself and a used LN2 head is $50, I might be willing to give it a shot)
-Proform 1.6 ratio rockers
-Custom Cam and pushrods
-10.5 to 11.5:1 compression through forged pistons and decking of either head or block or both
-Eagle rods
-Possible increasing of rod bearing clearances to cope with higher than stock rpm (looking for a 7200 rpm shift point, 7500 rpm limiter), only if necessary, will discuss with qualified persons...
-Full balancing of internals (probably will have to default this work to a worthy machine shop)
-Lightening/knife-edging of the crank
-Crank Scraper
-Not running any accesories except for alternator- water pump will be electric, converting to manual steering rack and A/C is for wussies.
-4:1 header
-Full 2.5" exhaust with v-banded cat for easy removal at the track.
-Custom intake manifold with larger than stock plenum (not too much), and shorter runners, all depends on cam selection. POSSIBLY ITB's but not until I have more information.
-Standalone
-This would require going from the HM282 to either a Quad4 gearset or an F23 swap from a third gen cav, as the Z's current gearing is just too tall for a high-revving NA setup.
This is the goal that I someday hope to build- slowly slowly going at it acquiring parts and info whenever possible. I don't have a deadline, and I'm done trying to build a car to a timeslip or a dyno sheet. I just want something decently quick and the rest of the car will be built for handling. Its meant to be a fun car, not the fastest thing on 4 wheels but something thats more fun to drive than my Landship Buick beater. I must confess that I would hope for at least 190whp and a 14.0 or faster in the 1/4 N/A , but if not then its all good.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
ITB's sound insane at WOT.
I miss my Sunfire, I want it back!
MMMM, HIDs
You will be missed.
Current engine build (*still need gasket set and pushrods):
Ross 2200 pistons ("dome" is raised a LOT... no more ringland worries)
Eagle rods
Crane 206/313 cam
hybrid lifters
Clevite tri-metals
balanced
ARP head/main studs
Mantapart pullies (small crank & big alternator = very little alternator production)
removed A/C, power steering
Cometic gasket
bone stock 2200 head (we'll see just how much of a restriction this really is)
RDFabs manifold (when it gets here)
looking to max out my T3/T04E on E85 (~30psi)
Megasquirt 1 v3.0
programmable DIS-2
car is gutted, suspension is good
*need 3.33 diff
-> 9.5-10:1 + lots of boost... should be fun
Second engine (already have most of these parts too, lol):
Venolia 2200 pistons
Eagle rods
Clevite tri-metals
*need to lighten crank... a lot
*need to have cam reground (SR-228/338)
solid hybrid lifters
*need another ARP set
*need crank-scraper
2.2L head (need to port still, including grooving)
1.6 Proforms
130# springs
titanium valves (need to be cut down a little)
titanium locks/retainers (need to be turned down a little)
bronze guides (missing one of them somehow)
RKSport crank pulley
Saturn injectors (finally completed my set)
*need another megasquirt
junkyard manifold, T3 60 trim @ ~15-20psi on E85
I might have to put this in an S10 so that I actually have some gearing selections.
11 speaker JL Audio stereo setup for sale:
http://www.j-body.org/classifieds/audio/52021/
Not to sound like a noob, but what does the grooving do?
I miss my Sunfire, I want it back!
MMMM, HIDs
You will be missed.
both sound nice....
I went with a more straight up approach.
Weisco Pistons
Eagle rods
Crane Cam
(wish I would have done hybrid lifters)
Chromoly pushrods
Crane Gold rockers
Crane LS-1 valve springs
Oversized valves
Proffessionally ported head
Ported intake mani
Ported TB
RSM crank pulley
Aluminum Flywheel
Cometic Gasket (N/A one)
ARP studs throughout
Currently rocking the J-tuners Mani, waiting for RD to get me mine as well
GT3071R @ 20 psi
RC injectors
MSD programmable DIS-2
All kinds of other lil goodies, and adding the M98 pump when I put the RD mani and DP on.
OHV... can i have one?
lol
i wish i had money to build my 2200...
I'm selling mine and don't have all the parts in but I've got:
a t25 saab turbo
port/polished head
2.25 stainless cat-back exhaust
2.25 i/o cat
fender CAI
pacesetter 4-1 header (the turbo isn't on the car)
B&M short throw
CF DualForce clutch
It's not particularly fast but it's really pleasant to drive (which is saying something in comparison to stock).
If anyone is looking for a stock tb, p/p head, or t25 turbo ask.
Head (undecked and not pressure checked) - $300
t25 - $100
Tb - $35
_________________________
John Benham wrote:both sound nice....
I went with a more straight up approach.
Weisco Pistons
Eagle rods
Crane Cam
(wish I would have done hybrid lifters)
Chromoly pushrods
Crane Gold rockers
Crane LS-1 valve springs
Oversized valves
Proffessionally ported head
Ported intake mani
Ported TB
RSM crank pulley
Aluminum Flywheel
Cometic Gasket (N/A one)
ARP studs throughout
Currently rocking the J-tuners Mani, waiting for RD to get me mine as well
GT3071R @ 20 psi
RC injectors
MSD programmable DIS-2
All kinds of other lil goodies, and adding the M98 pump when I put the RD mani and DP on.
Where do you think the GT3071R@20psi will put you, especially through a ported head? 300WHP? more? Also, how are you tuning, hpt?
With everything I have currently, on a good tune, I should be over 325, closer to 350.
I am tuning with a combination of the HPT and the MSD DIS 2
So it is fully OBD II compliant.
BTW, the turbo is being piped through a large FMIC.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, September 19, 2008 10:46 AM
^I hope you do make it, John. Alot of us are just waiting to see an LN2 that can slap a DOHCer in the face, especially one that can crank-out 350whp!
Hey Notec: If you do decide to drop that second engine in a dime, look for from the '00-'03 model-years built after Dec.-'99 with the 5th VIN-character being a #5. These are factory Flex-fuel trucks that come with a full fuel system ready to handle E85 so you don't need to worry about changing lines or anything.
Man... There are quite a few responses here, but we haven't heard from everybody that runs one, so lets hear from you guys too! C'mon MadJack, Bob, and all you others... Let's try to make this thread so full of build-up ideas that it becomes a sticky! And we all know how much one of those would be nice here, to prevent all the unneccessary threads that pop-up a lil' too often from newbies with questions on how to build theirs. It'd be the great LN2 build guideline, and we'd all have a part of it. Whadaya say?
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
i will chime in when i pull my race motor with the shaved crank apart next week i will be sure to include pics
The Evil J wrote:Not to sound like a noob, but what does the grooving do?
www.somender-singh.com start reading lol. I'm a bit skeptical of it myself but like I said, when a head only costs $50 its worth giving it a shot.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
This thread is great guys it is bringing so much info together to straighten my questions out. I will keep reading this.
The proper way of using the word seen. It is not I seen it that would be I saw it. He has seen the car is the right way to use the word. English class is Cool. By the way thats my sig
mine currently has:
Junkyard header
Junkyard exaust with an Apexi N1 can with the baffle no cat 2.25 pipe
Junkyard torque damper
chopped off shifter
Junk yard cold air intake (A TRUE CIA) filter is located in front of the windshield washer tank
and 1 other electrical mod that i shall not discuss what it is due to its controversy so dont even ask me about it if you know what i am talking about
i am currently thinking about weather i should turbo my 2.2OHV because i got an old mazda with a turbo just need to make yet another header or shove a 3400sfi in there with a getrag tranny. I also have a concept for independent rear suspension
my car is currently sitting on blocks because it got no spark and i cant find the problem for the life of me i changed the coils,module,plugs,and wires and i dont know where to go next.
Ryan Fifield wrote:
my car is currently sitting on blocks because it got no spark and i cant find the problem for the life of me i changed the coils,module,plugs,and wires and i dont know where to go next.
Maybe you should undo this?
Ryan Fifield wrote: 1 other electrical mod that i shall not discuss what it is due to its controversy so dont even ask me about it if you know what i am talking about
i did that but to no avail it has nothing to do with the ignition anyways, i think i might put the air bags back in it and see what that does but im pretty sure my PCM is shot thanks anyways
air bags wont bother the spark but the computer cluster key and tumbler all have to be coded
I have gone through a few heads and blocks learning a few things the hard way, so, here is what I have now, and why i've done the things i did to it.
I should mention my eventual goals is to run a T3/t04e 46 trim .48 a/r turbo in the car and reach 300+ hp with the old ln2.
Patriot performance cylinder head. This was to overcome the poor air flow in the stock head. For other reasons I had with the rocker roller threads pull out, I cryotreated the cylinder head as insurance against that, and to just make it super strong. check out 300below.com for info on that process.
I put the 1mm oversized valves in it to increase airflow. Those are also cryotreated.
Eagle H-bear rods for strength. With wiseco custom pistons, also for strength against a bad tune when getting the car to run and tuned right.
Top feed conversion to my 95-97 metal intake manifold. Primary reason for this was to be able to change fuel injectors to larger injectors which would be required when running a turbo.
the comp cam 1.6 rocker rollers. These clear the valve cover, and were a good price from a fellow member. These increase valve lift to let more air in the engine. My pushrods are stronger chromemoly hardened ones to stand up to higher revs. Along that line, i also have the lt-7 hybrid lifter conversion to stand up to higher revs. valve springs are j-body performance stiffer springs, with stronger retainers and locks.
Header, intake and exhaust to just let more air flow through the engine.
Taylor series spark plug wires to replace the bad stock ones i had. This was mostly to reduce the resistance that I had in the stock wires.
In the near future, I plan to get the MegaSquirt 2 pcb 3.0. I'll tune my now N/A engine with it, then once i'm familiar with megasquirt, i'll get the turbo, and install that starting at 7psi, moving up to around 15 psi.
This is good! This is very good! Now if some of the more "Heavy" buiders would chime-in (Okay Bob, we'll wait for you!) this will real be something!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
we need to find a company to make some lightweight n/a connecting rods an i beam, those eagles are just way to heavy for the lack of cylinder pressure a non boosted motor produces, if we could get a forged rod and 100 +- grams or so lighter would be rockin
Well my setup consists of
* t3/t4 60-1trim turbo 48/70
* innovative turbo wastegate
* proform 1.6 roller rockers
* HO tb
* 750cc injectors
* dsm bov
* ebay manifold
* ebay intercooler
* autometer ultra-lite boost and air/fuel gauges
* aem uego wideband
* 12.2 afr
* LT1-afpr
* msd ignition coils
* msd inline pump
* alky injection
* wiseco 9.0-1 compression pistons
* Cometec boost head gasket
* bored .20 over
* eagle rods
* mild ported head
* 5 angle valve job
* ss valves
* fully balanced and blueprinted block and rotating assembly
* 17psi
* hp tuners(tuned by me)
DRIVE HARD OR DONT DRIVE AT ALL!!!
