DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:Hypsy (TRU TurboSport Cav) wrote:Hey PJ....me and Atomic are going to start making a new IM in the very near future. Let me know if you want in.
depends how it looks, and if it has these features:
-I'd want bosses for an extra set of injectors (by then I'll need them)
-I also want a provision on the head flange to hook up the PCV system to a catch can. The manifold I'm getting for the car for now has that with a check valve already integrated. I DON'T want the hole between #2 and #3 blocked.
-75mm throttle body minimum.
an extra bonus would be velocity stacks in front of the runners, like the AMS VSR intake manifold.
I've been doing a lot of research about PCV systems and how they work, and what they're for. Blocking them off isn't a smart idea.. also, a single catch can isn't good enough, and most turbocharged cars need two catch cans.
PCV systems have 2 paths for venting, and the eco is no different. The first path is from the valve cover to the intake stream just in front of the throttle body.
The second path is from the head port (inbetween #2 and #3 cylinders) into the intake manifold.
I think this being blocked off by the first hahn port fueler manifold I had on the skwirl (when it was still n/a) managed to screw the rings and start causing some major blow-by. Boost pressures OR high RPM can cause damage to rings without proper ventilation of the crankcase, and I was revving up to 8100 with the hahn manifold.
I have a pretty neat, clean, and inexpensive way of running a dual catch can setup on the skwirl to keep the intake tract clean, and the engine running properly (the skwirl used to have lots of oil on the intake runners going into the combustion chamber.. a result from the PCV system not working properly, so its one of my main concerns this time around).
Oil causes detonation.. and could have been a contributing factor to when I blew my #3 ringland (even though I think the LE5 intake manifold, not tuning enough, and turning off my kR helped quite a bit too)
but in other news; I decided against cheaping out on seats. I'm going to throw Corbeau A4 seats and 5 pt harnesses in the car.
All very good information. remember though, you need to increase the size of the ports to relieve crankcase pressure on boosted engines. (look at all the high HP honda's) they run 4-5 -12an fittings welded to the valve cover to relieve pressure. Hell a local shop around here has a 1000+whp 4g63 in a 93 Rx7 chassis, that has 4 -12 AN fittings going to a catch can with 4 big breathers and when they are on the dyno you can still watch pressure come out of the top of the breathers..
This is the main reason why I did this
.. the nice thing about this set-up is, I can add more relief later when I need to very easily by adding new fittings to the catch can and valve cover
^^ they also talk about welding a fitting onto the valve cover in the gm book so This is definitely on my to-do list since I'm going to need the relief.
plus, I'm getting kinda tired of the black valve cover (since my whole firewall is black) I was thinking about going chrome next
ewww i don't know you anymore... lol
i think metallic blue and black in one of those "oil on water" style anodizing jobs would look tits...
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
hahn's sunfire has some massive welded on fittings on their cover, i remember because i was wondering why they needed such big lines.
so whats this about needing TWO catch cans, pj? more boost needs more cans? i definitely would want one on a turbo car of mine, blow by and spewing oil all over a clean engine makes me cringe. and to see that happen on my engine would put my 6 feet under.
i guess i should do some reading on PCV's and turbos.. where'd you go to get the best info?
failing to prepare is preparing to fail.
Quote:
where'd you go to get the best info?
I troll a vast number of other forums, I get a lot of good information from those who have been doing it successfully a lot longer than we have.
I got a lot of all motor info from honda forums, and a lot of boosted information from supras and evos.
believe it or not, hondas have PCV problems when spinning lots of rpm.
think about it, the faster the bottom end is moving, the more its going to be pushing air out of the way in there, thus its going to need a lot more ventilation or else you're going to still get a build up of crankcase pressure and blow-by.
on the twin catch can thing; the evo guys were still getting oil in the works until they figured out that both paths need catch cans.
I'm still investigating the ecotec and how its' PCV system functions, and how its set up.. but from what I can gather at the moment, the 6 rectangular holes in the valve cover of the eco is for the PCV system. The valve cover has the entire roof dedicated to the ventilation of these 6 ports (every valve cover has 6 ports, yet the L61 only has 5 mates on the head surface (the LSJ has 6)). The nipple on the valve cover is the outlet for these, and provides ventilation.
The ports go straight through the head, with the exception of the one inbetween the #2 and #3 cylinders on the intake side. This port connects straight to the small hole inbetween the intake ports, and thus connects the vent system to the intake manifold, and provides vacuum.
The ports on the bottom of the head continue to connect into the block directly above the balance shaft bores from what I can see. So it seems the vent system on the eco is pretty substantial.
This explains that when I had the original hahn racecraft manifold on my car (which blocks the small port inbetween #2 and #3 from a source of vacuum) it was forcing all of the vent system through my valve cover breather, and dumping oil everywhere. It was a pretty substantial leak, and the lack of a vacuum source probably cause a significant amount of crankcase pressure, and COULD have compromised my rings. One thing is for certain, the car was slower and while the design of the manifold was probably the ultimate culprit (I mean lets face it, it was made for a boosted car not an all motor one) I think the PCV system not functioning correctly played into it as well.
I took the video down, but the skwirl's dyno runs with the piss-poor numbers, you can see a ton of smoke billowing out of the valve cover breather on WOT (oil vapor). Sort of illustrates how much vapor comes out of there.
For the twin catch can thing, we have two sources that need vacuum. You COULD simplify it to one by having the nipple on the valve cover increased to -12AN (as per gm build book recommendations) and just block off the PCV vent inbetween the #2 and #3 intake runners, thus forcing all the vent to go through the -12AN (probably provide more than adequate ventilation) but you need to run it to a catch can and then a vacuum source. For an all motor car, I'd suggest the intake manifold, and for a boosted car it'd have to be in a tube pre turbo. This eliminates the need for a check valve, and also for the turbo car, you get proper ventilation all the time. For a PCV system with a checkvalve in a turbo car, under WOT that valve closes and bye bye PCV.. sort of eliminates the purpose don't you think?
you COULD run the -12 to atmosphere, but again for a car seeing regular or semi-regular street duty, a vacuum source helps the system to function better. By putting the source into a tube BEFORE the turbo, you eliminate any chance of accidentally boosting your crankcase and causing all sorts of problems. for an all motor car, connecting to the manifold (or a vacuum manifold) would suffice since there is VERY little if any positive pressure (highly built n/a cars DO generate pressure above atmospheric believe it or not.
So how many miles/years were on the gravanas? It's a lot of money to spend on something that turns so quickly to useless crap. Hopefully the STD's work out for ya!
So PJ you're saying run the port on the valve cover to a catch can, and then to the intake pipe of the turbo?
After reading this thread and chris's thread (sweetness) I realized how essential a PCV system is, before I never really cared and just vented it to atmosphere when I was boosted.
Good luck PJ!!!
(also I called to tell you the trip went well, the car is here!)
LE61T PTE6262 Powered 
im glad some people are finally doing something about this, i havent got far enough to have to really mess with anything but ive trolled like pj and have seen other platforms mess with the system and always wondered why you never hear of j's doin it.
oldskool:
the gravs were a few years old, and I'm not sure what caused them to get damaged. Its most likely the design of our front strut mounts and the way the skwirl was aligned. The front driver side was the one that would constantly adjust its camber all by itself. I figure the STD coilovers will solve my problems (pillowball front mounts) but are still double ride height adjustable like the gravs.
QBE:
good news man you'll be back in a j in no time
Cobalt guys have been seeing that, just using a oil cap breather and leaving the stock "pcv" alone, just letting the breather to atmosphere do its thing works just fine. most of the 300+whp guys run the oil cap breather. I personally thought it looked tacky, and wanted to be able to catch the oil coming out, hence the reason why I did it how GM suggests, except i used a -10 an fitting instead.i'll probably add another one once I go TVS
not a huge update, but after a lot of mocking up, I decided on where to mount the fuel pump finally. I used a 1.5" angle of steel 1/4" thick and welded 1/4" thick flat stock off of it making "legs". I then drilled and tapped 1/4-28 mounting holes and welded the assembly to the angle that supports the front of the fuel cell
from the interior looking towards the rear
from underneath passenger side looking towards the cell/pump
as you can see, the pump is protected by the car, yet still low enough to have great flow from the drop sump
best of both worlds FTW
the only thing is now I won't be able to do a dual feed (twin -8AN to Y block) and instead, chose to bore out one of the feeds on the drop sump of the cell to -10AN and use a single large feed line.
simple and much more cost-effective.
so I've finally removed the heat shield for the stock muffler (the ugly thing seen hanging in the above pictures) and I got my new hood pins so i can finally finish that F-up on my part (measure twice cut once)
the other thing I'm working on is getting a custom manual steering rack made by unisteer. I'm working on a possible GP (the feeler thread is in this forum)
the way I figure it is, the cost of braided lines and fittings, plus a pump, plus a remote reservoir, plus finding a place to mount the damn reservoir, and all the other headaches with keeping the PS system, I'd much rather just eliminate it altogether with a TRUE manual rack conversion, that way effort to steer isn't insane and still get a simplified system.
if anyone wants in on it, please post in that thread with any questions or comments. I'll be contacting unisteer tomorrow.
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:the other thing I'm working on is getting a custom manual steering rack made by unisteer. I'm working on a possible GP (the feeler thread is in this forum)
ohh hellz yeah!!!!
failing to prepare is preparing to fail.
so today I made a mounting bracket for the brake distribution block.
Its pretty sweet, bolts right to the rear transmission mount. I used 1/4" thick 2" wide flat stock and tapped a hole for 1/2-13 thread. A big bolt with a washer and lock washer goes through the hole in the top of the rear trans mount, and threads into the tongue. I then cut a peice of 2" wide 1/4" thick flat stock to mount the dist. block to, squared it up and welded them together.
It locates the dist. block directly below the master cylinder. The hardlines will be straight and simple, and the lines going from the dist. block to the calipers will be pretty much hidden. Nice and clean... and the only thing left to do with the brakes (again) is to bend up my new hardlines and flare the ends.
since I finished this bracket, the major fabrication is DONE.
Thats it, all done. I am now finally ready to get the skwirl towed home so I can wrap up the wiring, hoses, and misc. lines, and get it ready for the test phase!
a tow is gonna set me back a LOT of money since its so far from my house, but it'll be worth it since my car has been sitting in work since the end of March. The peace of mind will be more than worth it.
Tomorrow is the homecoming. Pictures of the car safe and sound coming soon
About time PJ and it hasnt been since March cause you were still driving it when I put the new motor in Satch in Mid april
Satch Timeline Progress Thread
JGM T-SHIRTS!!!!
In Loving Memory of Phil Martin December 14 2005
Alexis: Dustin, you're ghey, lol. I am better. I have tits, and tits rule all.
this picture is dated april 13th 2008
so maybe I exaggerated a little
bah im going to bed lol
Lemme know when you get it to the house.
Satch Timeline Progress Thread
JGM T-SHIRTS!!!!
In Loving Memory of Phil Martin December 14 2005
Alexis: Dustin, you're ghey, lol. I am better. I have tits, and tits rule all.
I like this little woodland creature that is called the Skwirl.
did the skwirl make it home safe?
updates?
Lanman31337 -F = fatties = do not want. A little chunk in the junk is ok though.
i'm gonna be getting it towed via AAA in a week or so.
I'm starting up my final plan for the electrical as well. I've got a list of all the gauge and colors I need for the wiring, now I need connectors, and to do a final mount of the relay box. I want to wait to do this until its in my garage though because I know if I sit and stare at the car for a lil while I can come up with some good ideas as to how to wire it up (if I can simplify any further).
I also need to order a connector for my coils, and order the fuel pump controller for my A1000.
its very, very close.. its all down to brake hardlines, fuel lines, and electrical work (until I can finally start the engine).
Just ordered a 50' roll of red 16AWG wire, a 50' roll of black 16AWG wire, 15 foot lengths of 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", and 3/4" black wire loom, an MSD 4 prong weather tight connector (for the coil interface blocks), and heat shrink butt connectors.
I still need to order 10AWG and 12AWG wire for the big wires coming out of the relay box, and I may need 14AWG wire for the headlight, wiper, and the MSD harnesses I need to extend, but my major concern is getting the relay box mounted and wired back into the car.
I figure starting with that would be easiest since its simply connect A to A, B to B, C to C, etc.
getting all the electrical to work again will be the easiest place to start. Then I'll have lights, horn, blinkers, etc..
after that, I'll worry about integrating the stand alone into whatever is left (I eliminated a lot of useless wiring), and making the new harness for the engine.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:49 PM
so pj the ports in the head go straight into the crankcasing to relieve pressure then the pressure goes to the valve cover port where the tube is at which is helping pull the pressure out quicker rather than just letting it vent out. so even on a n/a j a catch can would be wise to put between the intake and valve cover to keep tansfered oil fron the crankcasing out of the intake manifold and the cylinders.
just to bring this back up-to-date
wiring is waiting for me at home, I however am stuck in work at the moment.
I just received an intake manifold I bought from a fellow member. It came with a 75mm LS1 throttle body. I have it all installed on the skwirl now, I just need to fabricate my own throttle cable bracket. the one I got I COULD use but it angles the cable up and I don't like that very much, so I'm making my own. Plus it doesn't hold the cable at the proper distance and makes the gas pedal feel like crap.
I've also test fitted the cold pipe and how it will hook around the battery and everything is going according to plan
So wiring/ throttle cable bracket fabrication is next. I've also signed up for AAA and when I get my membership packet in the mail and my membership is activated I'll be having the skwirl hauled home on a flat bed.
however, once the car is home I doubt I'll be buying parts for it until '09 since Christmas is coming up.
but regardless of this, I should have power back in the skwirl before long since i have most of the wiring supplies I need to do it.
