slowolej wrote:

Quote:

Well I could do aluminum, then fuse it to the inside of the head, then the stock gasket could be used!

Why not machine a groove in the spacer like in the cover then use a 2nd gasket?

He's looking to have them water-jet cut, although I'd greatly prefer what you suggested if he has access to a CNC mill instead.




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Dave De Stefano wrote:i'm WAY more interested in what we might be able to use for springs...been looking for some, and the comp cams springs would be great...when will you guys know if they will work?

I might be far easier to use the Crane Cams Ford 2 valve V8 springs, but we need to findout if they'll fit the 2200s valve guide boss. Ther would possibly be no machine work or minimal machine work involved and no VC spacer needed using these springs. You'll need the spring seats from a Ford also.

hmmm...so, how would we know? some1 gonna test em? are they a lot?

I'm not sure if the spring seats are the same on the 2200, but the '97 & older 2.2L's spring seat's ID is .590"(this seat fits snugly over the guide boss), which is smaller than the ID of the spring in question(0.765"). When I get the chance, I'll go and measure the valve guide boss, which I know is smaller than 0.590". I doubt GM changed the size of the guide boss between the two models.

If that's the case, then these springs will work just fine on the 2200s.

Thank the shop that did John Benham's motor for finding these, I just went and found them in the catalog.

Summit Racing has the springs for $247.99 for a set of 16. Spit a set with someone else to cut the cost in half, or call and see if they can do a set of eight.

ok, awesome! thanks!

MadJack wrote:I'm not sure if the spring seats are the same on the 2200, but the '97 & older 2.2L's spring seat's ID is .590"(this seat fits snugly over the guide boss), which is smaller than the ID of the spring in question(0.765"). When I get the chance, I'll go and measure the valve guide boss, which I know is smaller than 0.590". I doubt GM changed the size of the guide boss between the two models.

If that's the case, then these springs will work just fine on the 2200s.

Thank the shop that did John Benham's motor for finding these, I just went and found them in the catalog.

Summit Racing has the springs for $247.99 for a set of 16. Spit a set with someone else to cut the cost in half, or call and see if they can do a set of eight.

YEAH i contrbuted!!1!

John Benham wrote:

MadJack wrote:I'm not sure if the spring seats are the same on the 2200, but the '97 & older 2.2L's spring seat's ID is .590"(this seat fits snugly over the guide boss), which is smaller than the ID of the spring in question(0.765"). When I get the chance, I'll go and measure the valve guide boss, which I know is smaller than 0.590". I doubt GM changed the size of the guide boss between the two models.

If that's the case, then these springs will work just fine on the 2200s.

Thank the shop that did John Benham's motor for finding these, I just went and found them in the catalog.

Summit Racing has the springs for $247.99 for a set of 16. Spit a set with someone else to cut the cost in half, or call and see if they can do a set of eight.

YEAH i contrbuted!!1!

your a badass!

John Benham wrote:

MadJack wrote:I'm not sure if the spring seats are the same on the 2200, but the '97 & older 2.2L's spring seat's ID is .590"(this seat fits snugly over the guide boss), which is smaller than the ID of the spring in question(0.765"). When I get the chance, I'll go and measure the valve guide boss, which I know is smaller than 0.590". I doubt GM changed the size of the guide boss between the two models.

If that's the case, then these springs will work just fine on the 2200s.

Thank the shop that did John Benham's motor for finding these, I just went and found them in the catalog.

Summit Racing has the springs for $247.99 for a set of 16. Spit a set with someone else to cut the cost in half, or call and see if they can do a set of eight.

YEAH i contrbuted!!1!

Will those springs i got off you work john? or will i have to go with the ones madjack posted.

Id be interested in a spacer as well.

Ok well machining the groove in it would make the cost go through the roof, as I know from a machining and design backround. You would need to make it identical of the gasket would buldge up and not seal correctly. Also it would have to be like and upside down triangle to hold the retaining tabs in the gasket.

SO_hardcore wrote:

John Benham wrote:

MadJack wrote:I'm not sure if the spring seats are the same on the 2200, but the '97 & older 2.2L's spring seat's ID is .590"(this seat fits snugly over the guide boss), which is smaller than the ID of the spring in question(0.765"). When I get the chance, I'll go and measure the valve guide boss, which I know is smaller than 0.590". I doubt GM changed the size of the guide boss between the two models.

If that's the case, then these springs will work just fine on the 2200s.

Thank the shop that did John Benham's motor for finding these, I just went and found them in the catalog.

Summit Racing has the springs for $247.99 for a set of 16. Spit a set with someone else to cut the cost in half, or call and see if they can do a set of eight.

YEAH i contrbuted!!1!

Will those springs i got off you work john? or will i have to go with the ones madjack posted.

Let me get in touch with the machinist that did my head, and verify.

MadJack wrote:

Jason, if you still have access to that head, could you measure the guides above the spring seat, these springs just might fit without machine work.

Not quite clear on which measurement you're asking for, do you want the clearance between the bottom of the retainer and the top of the valve stem seal (one piece with the seat)? Or something else?

If you want the clearance between retainer and seal, I happen to have a pic....






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Quote:

Ok well machining the groove in it would make the cost go through the roof,

Well, sounds like you have a better idea about this than I have. I checked to see if there's an older version of the engine which uses a flat gasket, but no luck.

Anyone know where the 2.0 OHV build guide is located now? This link is no good:
http://s120197345.onlinehome.us/2literOHVbuildup.pdf

I was wondering if the old, tall, magnesium cover that GM used to sell required a flat gasket.

It might be possible to use anaerobic sealer between the head and spacer, provided they are both aluminum. The different expansion rates of stainless and aluminum would preclude a hard sealer.

-->Slow

slowolej wrote:

Quote:

Ok well machining the groove in it would make the cost go through the roof,

Well, sounds like you have a better idea about this than I have. I checked to see if there's an older version of the engine which uses a flat gasket, but no luck.

Anyone know where the 2.0 OHV build guide is located now? This link is no good:
http://s120197345.onlinehome.us/2literOHVbuildup.pdf

I was wondering if the old, tall, magnesium cover that GM used to sell required a flat gasket.

It might be possible to use anaerobic sealer between the head and spacer, provided they are both aluminum. The different expansion rates of stainless and aluminum would preclude a hard sealer.

-->Slow

it is a different bolt pattern all together, iirc, there is an aftermarket valve cover for pre-98 applications, but will not work on the 2200 due to the different bolt patters.

MadJack wrote:

Dave De Stefano wrote:i'm WAY more interested in what we might be able to use for springs...been looking for some, and the comp cams springs would be great...when will you guys know if they will work?

I might be far easier to use the Crane Cams Ford 2 valve V8 springs, but we need to findout if they'll fit the 2200s valve guide boss. Ther would possibly be no machine work or minimal machine work involved and no VC spacer needed using these springs. You'll need the spring seats from a Ford also.

I'm not sure why I didn't catch this when you brought it up before, but the Ford springs won't work. These were the first option I looked at, and they look good except the spring ID at the seat is smaller than the valve stem seal OD.




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Phil, what software package is that? Did you do the whole motor?




fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster

***BREAKING NEWS*** notec's steps to a brighter American future:
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JerseyJayLN2 (Scarab) wrote:

MadJack wrote:

Jason, if you still have access to that head, could you measure the guides above the spring seat, these springs just might fit without machine work.

Not quite clear on which measurement you're asking for, do you want the clearance between the bottom of the retainer and the top of the valve stem seal (one piece with the seat)? Or something else?

If you want the clearance between retainer and seal, I happen to have a pic....

Thats not quite the measurement I was looking for.

Is that the valve stem seal under the lower point of the calipers? It looks like it is. If so that would let me know not to have more than 0.500" lift at the valve, but the seal's O.D. looks like it might be too big for the Ford springs.

What I need is the outside diameter of the boss. That would be under the valve stem seal. On the 2.2L I have, the Bosses O.D. is 0.584", but the spring seat flares out to hold the spring in place. Getting the combination of valve stem seals, valve spring seats and the Ford springs, can get this to work. Any good cylinder head machine shop should be able to match up the parts to make them work. This isn't an uncommon job at a performance cylinder head machine shop. With machining the guide boss you don't run the risk of breaking into the water jacket and ruining the head.

It will work, but once again, looks like we're stuck having to do some machine work to get some decent springs in this head. Although not cheap, this seems to be the most feasible option yet. Still less expensive than custom length valves, push rods and a VC spacer, plus the cost of the springs.

John Benham wrote:There is an aftermarket valve cover for pre-98 applications...

Where did you see that?


Go beyond the "bolt-on".

Nickelin Dimer wrote:

John Benham wrote:There is an aftermarket valve cover for pre-98 applications...

Where did you see that?

Moroso valve cover for 2.2L engnes

The 2200 is a different bolt pattern?? Well, that's news to me. Hmm... I guess that gasket is quite a bit different, too. Guess I can't use a 98+ spacer then.

I've seen the aftermarket cover for the older engines. Seems like a lot of money. I've thought about taking two OEM covers, cutting the flange off one and the center out of the other, then having the two welded together. Function over form works for me.


-->Slow

Jack, I know I measured the boss diameter and I know I have it written down in a notebook thats SOMEWHERE in this house in a box of stuff I never unpacked from the move.... I'll try and track it down.

Of interest to the maximum lift at the valve though, is that with +0.100" longer valves for the 1.7" installed height, that increases to .600" max lift if the springs used can support it.




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i made one for my 2200 out of one peace of aluminum my i made it an inch high and my 1.6 rockers fit awsome

Phil nice solidworks!


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Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

Phil any updates? maybe pricing?

(BUMP)

I just ask for a quote and he told me 85 shipped, and 1-2 week lead time.