LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction! - Page 3 - Performance Forum

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Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:52 PM
hehe. if you think this is impressive.... just wait for my engine build thread in a couple months.

what have i been doing for a year? gearing up for some serious engine building.



I must confess... I feel like a monster!

Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:20 PM
Hey Z Yaaa.......what about light rods and pistons too, like stock, or titanium. And can't you get pistons made from ceramics?

forged rods and pistons are HEAVY! when compared to stock or lightwieght options.



Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:40 PM
actually... our forged pistons options are lighter than stock. forged vs cast.

now our eagle rods.. i do believe they are heavier than stock but that is a sacrifice i am willing to take due to our stock rods equaling crap.

with the gutted crank the rotating assembly is going to be extremely light. and couple that in with the 2.3 oil pump swap's removal of the balance shafts, um yeah... tons of weight lost.



I must confess... I feel like a monster!
Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Friday, October 23, 2009 1:11 AM
Good mod for a dirt - oval stock car or all out drag car but no good on the street.

For a street machine, at most, I'd just get an alum. flywheel... Much cheaper and you retain the reliability.

Once you get into a 5-600HP J-body, you want the extra inertia on the street to help you takeoff.... reason being is that the clutches that handle 5-600HP are usually sintered iron or ceramic. They behave much like an on/off switch and with all the rotating mass removed, it will get difficult to drive.

This mod ranks very low in the "$$ vs HP" department and for 97% of people that cash can be spent in other areas.


11.92 @ 122.69 MPH Rotrex Blower / Intercooled / Water-Meth / 100% Daily Driver / 381 WHP


Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Friday, October 23, 2009 4:36 AM
Completely forgot about the streetability issues. Less rotating mass means a much more pronounced 2.4 stall issue.



Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Friday, October 23, 2009 5:25 AM
the car this is going into is a slow revving automatic. i am fairly confident it is going to work out, between talking to the guy (that has actually build several engines with this same exact style crank and has seen first hand what the engines do) and driving my car i think this crank is going to help out a bunch.

im going to be the guinea pig. if its a fast falling engine and stalls all the time wont be fun but i can deal with it. i could care less if it doesn't work out, ive got enough stuff to build two more engines AFTER this one.

and in reality, this motor will be my 'spare'. im just doing a lot of the things in this engine for testing, if all works out, great, if not... i'll know what not to do in the next couple engines.

and really, if we didn't have people willing to try new things we are never going to get anywhere. this is just an idea i have had for a long time that i have wanted to implement.



I must confess... I feel like a monster!
Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Friday, October 23, 2009 6:44 AM
Brad call him up and ask him to weigh both cranks!

Taking say 4 pounds of mass off of a flywheel can have a more noticeable effect then from the crankshaft because you removed it further from the center line of rotation. That means centrifigual force plays into this.

Since he is doing it on a lathe with is much more precise than going at it with a grinder. He could take off as little or as much weight as you want.

To me this seems like a better idea then going to a lightweight flywheel. I have personaaly seen 3 of Paul Tjepkes Fidanza/Spec flywheels break. Thus why I am still rocking a stock flywheel.

I wanted to add that this guy is as legit as they come. I will vouch for him. Machine work has been his lifelong trade and he has got to be in his upper 50's if that tells you something. He is retired. He does not do this for the money as he said most everything he makes he just puts into his shop. His shop is his man cave. It is where he hangs out and where he enjoys being. This is what he does for fun and as a hobby. He has everything you would expect to see in any auto machine shop. He showed us the crank balancing machine and was eager to throw a crank he had done on it to show us. He explained in detail what each one of the readings meant and so much more that my head was about to burst with info. He takes great pride in the work he does. This is nothing new to him he has been doing HO cams, 2.3 oil pump swaps (with ideas noone has ever brought up on here), adjustable cam gears, reenforced mains caps, lightened cranks ect, ect, for 6+ years now. He has also started venturing into ecotecs. What he does is tried and ture in the abusive nature of racing.



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Friday, October 23, 2009 2:41 PM
as for a stalling issue....

RAISE the idle?!

Just make shure the guy has the flywheel, pistions, wristpins, rods, and crank pulley when it get ballanced.


Looks good though!

Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Friday, October 23, 2009 3:11 PM
Have him cut the rod journals a little wider so you can stuff 2.3 titanium rods in it for a little more leverage...






"The FACTS are always subject to CHANGE once the TRUTH is applied"
"In the entire history of man the only stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked"
Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Friday, October 23, 2009 3:22 PM
Then you would really have to get custom pistions to make up for the shorter rod length.

Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Friday, October 23, 2009 3:26 PM
Can he cross drill the crank for more oiling?




FU Tuning




Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Friday, October 23, 2009 8:46 PM
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:

Then you would really have to get custom pistions to make up for the shorter rod length.

Chris

.u mean Longer rods?



Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Saturday, October 24, 2009 10:40 PM
every piston we get is 'custom' order anyways. not really a big deal until wiseco tells us you can't move the pin much if at all on their slugs (scott already went down this road awhile ago).

and gary, u serious? that works? finding a set of those jet rods is like trying to find a second 250whp all motor LD9. you just dont. but dear god that sounds awesome. i am fairly certain this guy could do it.

john-i can ask. and he did say less material cut could be negotiated.



I must confess... I feel like a monster!
Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Monday, October 26, 2009 8:53 AM
YA YA.... Shorter stroke....

Atleast ya knew what i ment!

Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Monday, November 02, 2009 6:57 PM
Where is this machine shop located in WI??
Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Monday, November 02, 2009 7:11 PM
its not location in WI. its located in iowa, near cedar rapids.



I must confess... I feel like a monster!
Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Monday, November 02, 2009 8:03 PM
oh ok thanks
Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Tuesday, November 03, 2009 5:18 AM
Waukesha WI, 53189

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Tuesday, November 03, 2009 6:37 PM
If we wieghed our pistons and rods wouldnt we want our counter balances to be close to that weight or a bit more? Just to keep everything somewhat balanced? And not to cause to much vibration on the bearings and such? I like the idea of making ou crank lighter and faster revs, but I think if anyones on a budget like I am you wouldnt want to experiment too much at the cost of destroying and rebuilding the engine over and over. I just think that everytime the piston hits tdc or bdc at high rps that if you take too much weight off the crank it might cause some vibration issues and kill the main bearings. I'm probably wrong and I hope I am but it seems like it could be a costly experiment. Brad let me know how much your taking off your crank.
Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Tuesday, November 03, 2009 6:42 PM
Yeah, it's not something for everyone. You are much further ahead getting light wheels, a better turbo, better tires, ect. There isn't much to be gained here at all. (and there's alot to be lost, mostly money and reliability...)


11.92 @ 122.69 MPH Rotrex Blower / Intercooled / Water-Meth / 100% Daily Driver / 381 WHP


Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Tuesday, November 03, 2009 6:53 PM
^^^ coming from a guy that i see does not have an LD9 i find it hard to take what you say to heart because well.. quite frankly you have never done it.

the guy that does this crank work, HAS. several times.

his knowledge on the subject > you're knowledge on the subject

jay-its fine if you dont want to do it, it just saves you that much money. plus you have boost to look forward to. this is more of an N/A thing but i could care less. i AM going to find out of this is worth it or not. i dont care how many 'experts' come in here and tell me its worthless. its going to be done, period.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, November 03, 2009 7:04 PM


I must confess... I feel like a monster!

Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Tuesday, November 03, 2009 7:14 PM
I'm not saying its worthless to try. I'd like to still do it to a point but I dont think I want to take as much weight off the cb's. I think it would be worth it but theres gotta be a sweetspot with the cb weightloss not to cause vibration. I honestly do think its worth the money Ive heard good stuff and bad stuff about doing this. its just that theres a lot of experimentation for us ld9 guys to do untill we find the right amount of weight to shave off. Brad your gonna be the crankshaft pioneer here.
Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Tuesday, November 03, 2009 7:17 PM
actually im not. according to what i have heard the highest whp recorded for an ld9 had this kind of crank work done so....



I must confess... I feel like a monster!
Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:06 PM
z yaaaa wrote:

^^^ coming from a guy that i see does not have an LD9 i find it hard to take what you say to heart because well.. quite frankly you have never done it.


I've never done alot of things, the difference between me and you is that I don't have to try things to figure out that they don't work.

Not trying to @!#$ on your parade here buddy, but "the crank work guy" uses his motors for stock car racing AND he has free access to a lathe to cut these things.

Just pretend for a second you could have a back to back dyno run with the crank work then one without. BEST case scenario what do you think you're looking at for a gain ?

Answer : 3.234 HP @ 9000 RPM OMG SICK GAIN !!!

Now, factor the cost $ and the lost reliability, does this still seem worth it for a street car?








Answer to said question is 3.234 HP @ 9000 RPM


11.92 @ 122.69 MPH Rotrex Blower / Intercooled / Water-Meth / 100% Daily Driver / 381 WHP


Re: LD9 Cranks: Knife Edging and Weight Reduction!
Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:23 AM
yep. and you know why? because of people like you who say it shouldn't be done or it isnt worth a damn.

thanks for the motivation!


*edit* i cant be done with this...

you just said yourself that he runs these cranks in STOCK CARS. what do you think a stock car is? a go kart? a car that revs to 2000 rpm and gets good gas mileage? no. its a car that gets beaten the absolute PISS out of over and over again. putting this crank in a street car is going to be like a freaking walk in the park for this thing.

so again, i re-iterate... you telling me that it is not worth it or sacrifices reliability really just goes in one ear and right out there other. why? because of the fact that the guy that has actually been doing these for years (not you) has told me there is no reliability issue and the cars run VERY strong after doing this.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:28 AM


I must confess... I feel like a monster!
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