well the way i see it thats gotta be a tuning issue because plenty of other 4 cylinder cars have way WAY lighter assemblies than we do and dont have stalling issues.

also... if thats the case and its just our engine design or something you could always use a steel flywheel and a stock or HO crank pulley versus their aluminum counterparts to add some weight back in.



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.

I believe AJ was having a problem with stalling after he installed everything also. No idea what he ended up doing.




PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

well the LD9 in stock form... at least all of mine have had a stumbling issue coming up to like stop lights etc and its definitely worse with a manual car. ive heard of plenty of others having the same issue too so who know what it is lol

i just dont see how making engine components lightweight would make an engine stall, honestly. but then again im a layman haha someone much smarter than me could probably explain it...



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.

-Z Yaaaa- wrote:i just dont see how making engine components lightweight would make an engine stall, honestly.

objects in motion stay in motion unless an external, opposing force acts upon it

lighter objects have less mass = they have less momentum (mass * velocity). more momentum = harder to stop.

an equivalent external force will act upon a light object (less m) more effectively (ie, will make it stop faster) than it will than on heavier objects (greater m) moving at the same speed (v).



- Interior FAQ -
J-Body of Michigan -

^^^ an old man was telling something about this also yet it was about the crank pulley. He was talking about when shifting into the next gear.... anyone add to this. I forget how to say it.

The old man was kinda wrong. It is "easier" to shift with more rotational mass spinning.

People "used to" believe that the more rotational mass you had spinning, when shifting, would translate into maintaining higher RPMS and less speed and power loss while shifting.

Lighter is always better when racing. More rotational mass makes it is easier to drive in a manual, but it isn't as faster.



Raptor explained it correctly.






Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:27 PM

PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

Thats what I was getting at! Lol

So would this effect a manual or auto more?
I think the stumbling at a idle has to do with the tps and iac...
Brad you think this crank of yours is gonna last?

http://www.ffwdconnection.com/butchercrank.shtml

yes the know the crank is going to last. and again as i have explained 50 times in this thread...

its because plenty of racers here in iowa are running them (and have been for years) in stock cars for many laps for entire seasons beating the absolute piss out of them each and every night.



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.

It may have been quoted in this thread before but Eagle B18 cranks are shipping weight 35lbs, good for 700+ hp and god knows how many RPM's. I know it's a different motor but iirc its got a nearly identical rod length/ stroke ratio, 1.58:1. If the seller ever responds I plan on running a 9-10lbs lighter crank in my built motor.


PSN ID: Phatchance249

well that is more than likely a forged crank. with ours being cast it makes them weaker. however.... cryotreating makes up for a lot of the difference so it'll be overkill if you cryo like im gonna do.



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.

I know it's weaker, the point of mentioning it was to show light weight cranks can be streetable, that one was recommended for anything from street to race aplications. Since I'll be lucky to get 200whp strength is not my concern, the ability to run it on the street as my DD is the only concern I have.


PSN ID: Phatchance249

Brad: trying to get the most out if these in a automatic transmission like your saying... what about the flexplate?? How much can these even handle? Their real light and seem they cant take much.

huh? its a steel plate thats only function is to allow the starter to actually start the engine.
what does that have to do with anything?



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.

Brad the engine and trans rotating assemblies are both bolted to the flexplate, it and the bolts connected to it feel the power before the ground.

Jeremy people use stock flexplates on 600hp v8s and they really aren't that much beefier than those in our engine.

Yeah Brad, lol. Cool so my build should be solid.
Brad whats the going price for your machinest to gut the crank and balance the lighter rods, pistons, pulley, and flexplate out?

ive given you the number twice. call him.



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.

The only stumbling issue my car ever had was with the SPEC flywheel it would sometimes stall when I'm using reverse. When I was done using the reverse gear, push the clutch in, grab 1st and it would die.


PSN ID: Phatchance249

-Z Yaaaa- wrote:well that is more than likely a forged crank. with ours being cast it makes them weaker. however.... cryotreating makes up for a lot of the difference so it'll be overkill if you cryo like im gonna do.

brad's answer for everything... cryotreat.

ever look into how cryotreating effects TOUGHNESS?

lets make the crank so hard it'll shatter like glass.... there has to be some amount of elasticity in there or else its going to crack and break.


also, the auto probably revs up so slow not because of the rotational mass of the bottom end, but more like the giant round thing filled with FLUID called the torque converter


furthermore, if lighter is always better, why have a counterweight at all? just chop the whole damn thing off.

lol


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs

Boosted2point4 wrote:i would like to know how strong the crank is tho.... what is the weak link in the 2.4???? thats what i really want to know....

I have a 2.4 LD9 (2000 year model) and a 2.2 LN2 (early version) apart in my garage. The cranks are about the same. LD9 piston is 90mm and the LN2 is 89mm. The pistons are similar in that they are both cast and about the same thicknesses, but the rods are forged and bigger in the 2.2.

Right now the machine shop has a rod and piston from each engine to check if the 2.4 piston (flat top) can be fitted to the 2.2 rod. There is .066 difference in the wrist pin. The LD9 is larger. They are experimenting before I spend any money on anything. When they get back to me, I'll post the answer.

dennis

DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:

-Z Yaaaa- wrote:well that is more than likely a forged crank. with ours being cast it makes them weaker. however.... cryotreating makes up for a lot of the difference so it'll be overkill if you cryo like im gonna do.

brad's answer for everything... cryotreat.

ever look into how cryotreating effects TOUGHNESS?

lets make the crank so hard it'll shatter like glass.... there has to be some amount of elasticity in there or else its going to crack and break.


also, the auto probably revs up so slow not because of the rotational mass of the bottom end, but more like the giant round thing filled with FLUID called the torque converter


furthermore, if lighter is always better, why have a counterweight at all? just chop the whole damn thing off.

lol come on pj. you've been on the warpath for me lately for some reason. how come?

you obviously have never looked into the actual process. go ask an actual cryotreater what it actually does to the metal, sir. it does not effect the "hardness" it makes it stronger and it changes the molecular grain structure to do so. think of it like defragmenting a hard drive.

call 300below.com they will tell you the same thing.

and LOL yes i know about the converter the damn things are heavy bastards. i wish they made something lighter.



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.

They do, it's called a flywheel.


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs

Bazzing-ga


PSN ID: Phatchance249