Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads - Performance Forum

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Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Monday, November 22, 2010 10:05 PM
Since I have had a "strong" interest in these wheels even after being sold out, I have decided to make another run, This is an INTEREST thread only, I will run a GP again based on the interest here within.

First what does this "External Crank Trigger Wheel" do..

Ecotec Family - It allows anyone with an L61 Equipped car to run any variant of the eco bottom end. LSJ, LE5 are most common. I am currently running an LE61T (LE5 bottom end, L61 Head and a Turbo) Ryan Oldskool is running a NA Version of the same motor. It will ALSO allow you to run the LAP (2.2 vvt) and LNF (2.0T) bottom ends, both considerably more expensive. (more so on my opinion of the rarity.) These bottom ends will all support 400 crank hp. LSJ and LNF obviously more. LE5 has been tested to 400 whp, longevity, we don't know (but there are several youtube videos of mid 300 whp LE5's that are daily driven). I will push mine to 375. What this means is that using the STOCK J Body ecu (eco) you can use these motors, otherwise you'd need a standalone. These are an AFFORDABLE ALTERNATIVE to building a motor. LE5 Motors can be found for $500 with less then 20k miles, LSJ is more. Seeing as most of us don't have power goals exceeding the reliability of these motors you can do this swap for about $1000 (including cams)(parts off your LE5 can be sold on css.net) And seeing as you're taking a motor out if it's in good shape, well that could also be sold.

Quad Family - from what I have gathered this allows you to run the stroker bottom end. Hotbug or ZsZ can confirm. I'd need a solid count on these seeing as the bolt for the pulley is slightly larger.

Here is a working video taken from my car.



Ryan Oldskool and Myself are here if anyone has any questions.

Pricing is $75 (unless I get an overwhelming committment in the GP, last one I ran had 12)


On another note seeing as how there has been a huge breakthrough in using the 2.4 harness and ecu with 2.2 ohv coils conversion on an eco allowing you to run a 2.4 sc tune this could be an AWESOME combination.





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Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Monday, November 22, 2010 10:11 PM
Hopefully this is a good place to summarize this, but here is the bare minimum you need to run an LE5 bottom end (w/o the external oil cooler):

-Jbody L61 oil pan (usable off your current L61)
-Jbody L61 thermostat housing (usable off your current L61)
-NEW crank pulley bolt (torque to yield)
-Jbody L61 upper mount bracket (slightly modified to fit, you will see when you go to install it a small channel must be ground no biggie)
-LE5 head gasket (or any ecotec head gasket that has at least an 89mm bore) Options i've found are OEM MLS, Cometic MLS, and SCE copper
-NEW head bolts (also torque to yield) OR head studs
-about an 18" length of the braided CKP sensor wire - easy score at most junkyards
-a simple L-bracket to mount the sensor on the bottom-aft timing cover bolt
-At least one NEW cam gear bolt (torque to yield) unless you know how to time the engine w/o breaking one loose. I generally found that breaking one loose is the easiest way.
-LE5 timing chain tensioner - I'm not sure if this is universal, but it was a little different than my L61 tensioner, and since the actual tensioner arm comes from the LE5 I used the corresponding tensioner.
-Tuning is highly recommended
-30 lb/hr or greater injectors are highly recommended if tuning


*assuming you have an L61 head/components/valve cover

If you guys come across anything else in your adventures, let me know








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Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Monday, November 22, 2010 10:19 PM
Just remember Quad4/TC guys... 18mm bolt hole... needs to be about an inch longer too...posting pics to show you why. Only on stock HO pulley will you be affected, AFAIK.

A spacer would be a nice thing as well.

All will be revealed tomorrow to show you the reasons.





Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Monday, November 22, 2010 10:46 PM
what do you mean an inch longer? lol...



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Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Monday, November 22, 2010 11:15 PM
Put me down for one.

Are you on stock head or built with cams and stuff??
Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Monday, November 22, 2010 11:33 PM
Slightly ported head with stage 3 cams



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Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Monday, November 22, 2010 11:56 PM
1. Vic 28





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Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:51 AM
apparently the stock twin cam pulleys are larger than the eco's ? and for guys with "SC's using the smaller crank pulley is unwanted. that and the center bolt size difference i believe was the issue we had last time.
the trigger marks are the same....but we had a problem putting it on a twin cam with sc .



Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:46 AM
Scott the stock eco pulley is at least 1/4 bigger then the trigger wheel, the stock pulley size does not matter, it matters how you mount the sensor. I can fix the bolt hole easily.



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Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Tuesday, November 23, 2010 7:26 AM
To be sure, I went out and measured my two pullies with the timing ring...

The lightweight aluminum version from mdz24cavalier is fine, bolt wise, and if you put the stock washer under the timing wheel you get a rough 3/16" space off the pulley.

The stock HO pulley, with the dampener, using the stock washer in the pulley's stock recess, you still need a 3/8" spacer. this pulley also pushed the stock bolt out 5/8" (sorry, 1" was pulled from a visual guess).







When I get to that point, I'll see how it goes mounting the HO pulley with the stock bolt. I have access to longer bolts and spacers, so I'm fine with my setup.







Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Tuesday, November 23, 2010 7:39 AM
Thank you, I have about 1/2 inch space like you do but we did not use a washer, we tq'd my bolt down and my wheel did not flex at all.



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Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:05 AM
So this is just the wheel right? No sensor itself?

Second question where would one get the sensor from?

Ill be down dependent on when the payment is need and such.



Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:25 AM
Does this only go on one way or what? How do you align the sensor ring to the crank to have it be acurate?



Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:55 AM
Darkstars wrote:

Does this only go on one way or what? How do you align the sensor ring to the crank to have it be acurate?


Right now there is no easy way of making a key way for it. Ryan can explain it, but once cylinder 1 is at TDC you align the sensor with the one notch (iirc it's the one of the two at the reset notch). Oldskool has done this numerous times and knows it by heart, I have only watched him. Him and I are both reachable if someone needs help in mounting this. I will have ryan write something up after work. Thank you.


TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:

So this is just the wheel right? No sensor itself?

Second question where would one get the sensor from?

Ill be down dependent on when the payment is need and such.


No, no sensor, you can use one from like autozone, it is just a basic L61 crank sensor. Nothing more. Payment can be sent once the GP is up, or anytime during said GP.





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Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:03 AM
hotbug1776 wrote:

To be sure, I went out and measured my two pullies with the timing ring...

The lightweight aluminum version from mdz24cavalier is fine, bolt wise, and if you put the stock washer under the timing wheel you get a rough 3/16" space off the pulley.

The stock HO pulley, with the dampener, using the stock washer in the pulley's stock recess, you still need a 3/8" spacer. this pulley also pushed the stock bolt out 5/8" (sorry, 1" was pulled from a visual guess).







When I get to that point, I'll see how it goes mounting the HO pulley with the stock bolt. I have access to longer bolts and spacers, so I'm fine with my setup.


the Ho and a stock LD9 pulley will have the same problem. Mine is fatter in that area for strength...





Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Wednesday, November 24, 2010 6:14 PM
Thinking about it more I guess you wouldn't want it keyed to the pulley unless it came with a sensor and bracket otherwise sensor position is huge.



Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Wednesday, November 24, 2010 6:47 PM
Sub'ed for now. I'm still not entirely sure when or if I'll do this swap. It might be sooner rather than later if my street dyno is actually close to being right.


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Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Thursday, November 25, 2010 12:48 PM
Im SOOO tempted! I have all the L61 parts sitting in my garage.



Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Thursday, November 25, 2010 12:52 PM
do it and you'll hit 14's mmm M62 on an Le5 is good for mid to high 200's on 12 psi



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Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Thursday, November 25, 2010 12:54 PM
ecotecpower wrote:

Im SOOO tempted! I have all the L61 parts sitting in my garage.


since your not selling it



Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Thursday, November 25, 2010 6:51 PM
how much would it me to ship to canada? L4P 2T8. would work nice with my current setup and alot cheaper and easier then building a L61 bottom end. im going to have to read up more about this swap but forsure interested.







Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Thursday, November 25, 2010 7:03 PM
Price includes shipping.

Come on guys keep the list going



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Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Thursday, November 25, 2010 7:10 PM
what's with the hate for the l61 bottom end. is it that big of a deal?



Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Thursday, November 25, 2010 7:11 PM
Piss off Phil. Haha. Put me down for one



Re: Round 2: External 6+1 Crank Trigger Wheels, Ecotecs and Quads
Thursday, November 25, 2010 7:23 PM
blucavvy wrote:

what's with the hate for the l61 bottom end. is it that big of a deal?


This is an affordable alternative to building an L61. It could cost upwards of $2000 to do that. This swap can handle 400, properly tuned and is 1/4 of the cost, plus the added displacement is nice. I spool up 1500 rpms sooner



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