2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE! - Page 2 - Performance Forum

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Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Saturday, December 03, 2011 4:12 AM
^^ With the number of Ecos I have see with pulled liners, broken timing chains, broken timing gears, and/or rods hanging out of the block your arguement is invalid.

I stick with what I know and trust, so Q4/LD9 it is for me. My 98 is at 147K, and the engine in my 02 is around 220K, no rods hanging out on either.




Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Saturday, December 03, 2011 5:51 AM
an engine with 195,000 miles is NOT going to make the same power it made when it was fresh... I dont' care what engine it is.

so saying an eco swap is a 10hp loss despite it having 190,000 miles less is complete idiocy.


you 2.4 guys crack me up sometimes.





Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Saturday, December 03, 2011 6:22 PM
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:

an engine with 195,000 miles is NOT going to make the same power it made when it was fresh... I dont' care what engine it is.

so saying an eco swap is a 10hp loss despite it having 190,000 miles less is complete idiocy.


you 2.4 guys crack me up sometimes.

i fail to see your argument...

lets put a generic example here...

car came with 2.4... car has 190k on it, car was not maintained, oil wasn't changed often enough, rod bearings spun....

You're telling me its idiocy to rebuild/replace the LD9 vs buying an eco, eco trans, a bunch of @!#$ like the pcm, rad, wiring, etc etc, and dropping that it????

Really?


---My argument was simply this... brand new vs brand new... keeping the motor you have vs swapping between the two is the best bang for your buck... the motors are comparable, and can be pushed around to the same point... and parts are easily available...

even a 190k 2.4 is cheaper to rebuild, and build up, than a a stock eco swap + parts... the only reason why the O.P.'s argument is valid, is because he already owned the eco and it was just sitting, and its built... so in his case, it was worth the headache to do the swap... 9 times out of 10 its never worth the case to switch from either motor to the other...


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, December 03, 2011 7:13 PM


Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Monday, December 26, 2011 8:32 AM
To anyone with the TG LSD insert...did your car still roll easily with this in place?



Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Wednesday, April 04, 2012 7:23 PM
Onto today's happenings..."We" worked on wiring up the engine...again. He basically told me, "I wired the first one in two hours only to find out it was the wrong one, so this one is all you. Do what you can figure out and when you get stuck let me know". Three hours later, the engine is wired up except for 4 things...

1. There is a red connector that goes somewhere towards the firewall on the driver's side (2 port male connector)

2. The upper o2 sensor (4 port male connector) has no where to go. They look the same between the 2.4 LD9 and Ecotec. Both are the 4 port male connector.

3. An orange male connector. Looks a lot like the fan connector, but its on the same wires as all of the A/C stuff.

4. There's a little tube thingy (vacuum line?) coming in from the firewall. It had a connector on the auto harness, but not on the manual version. What is this for?



Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Wednesday, April 04, 2012 7:33 PM
Vacuum line is for the HVAC controls.

Can't tell you the rest w/o pics of the connectors. What's the harness out of?


SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '80 Chevette Quad 4 Swap

TeamGREENPerformance LSD Inserts
Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Wednesday, April 04, 2012 7:51 PM
2005 Sunfire with a manual trans. The harness out of the '02 w/ auto trans had the vacuum line connection on it, but this one doesn't. the "red" connector is actually red plastic. It's the only one on the entire harness that isn't grey.



Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Wednesday, April 04, 2012 7:55 PM

^Orange connector on same part at two for the A/C which was pulled.


^Upper o2 sensor wire



Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:46 AM
Red is evap I believe (just stripped down a 02 LS Sport harness a couple weeks ago, think that's what it was)
Second plug into the back of the Alt?
Third is post cat O2 sensor.


SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '80 Chevette Quad 4 Swap

TeamGREENPerformance LSD Inserts
Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Thursday, April 05, 2012 6:35 PM
Awesome...thanks Brian. I'll double check during my junk yard run tomorrow.



Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Friday, April 06, 2012 11:21 AM
as far as those wirs go...red i agree is evap or purge valve system....not sure what the eco has but thae colors pretty much stay same. o2 sensor you just need to hook to post cat- the pigtail should be on the sensor...about 3 feet long. the yellow deal can be a number of things, but im saay ac since it is with those lines, or it could be for the cooling system somewhere. and the vaccume is hvac as stated earlier just need to connecty it to cars vaccume system
i'm def a ld9 fan, but really the eco makes more power cheaper....it was made to run boost afterall, and our ld9's take some work to turbo up, and honestly it's kinda hard to pull any good power off any of the cavi motors, which sucks...my dsm made an extra 100hp spending just a few hundred bucks.....this was just going from factory 195 to 200. honestly the cavi motors are just fun to work on, and they are an american car-which is sweet by itself haha. and they are fun to drive too, honestly i can say that my old WS-6 was the only car that was more fun in my mind....and i work at a dealership so driven a good bit of cars around.

umm skwirl i'm pretty sure that if the eco had that many miles it wold lack power too. and besides i think he meant like side by side, new to new...common sense dude Mystic is def right, to rebuild the ld9 makes it a 0 mile motor, so your argument is the invalid one. and it is much more sensible to just redo the ld than waiste a ton of money having all the extra crap done for the swap-parts, ecu, paying someone to do it...hell even if you do it yourself your looking at a full weekend of work, so as far as sensible goes i have to say the swap is stupid because for all that extra you spent you can turbo the ld9 and say bye bye eco guys. I mean you mjay have that eco built up a little bit but really the money could have been better spent. idk why but for some reason I just don't like the eco motor, honestly it's just a personal preferance...and to be really honest i only really like the look of the quad motors haha i would rather havee a 3800 or a 4g63(turbo dsm motor) or a 383 stroker, or a 427, only one i don't have is the v8, but not for long-chevelle haha.

Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Friday, April 06, 2012 11:39 AM
Mystic02VA (GME Chat) wrote:

DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:

an engine with 195,000 miles is NOT going to make the same power it made when it was fresh... I dont' care what engine it is.

so saying an eco swap is a 10hp loss despite it having 190,000 miles less is complete idiocy.


you 2.4 guys crack me up sometimes.

i fail to see your argument...

lets put a generic example here...

car came with 2.4... car has 190k on it, car was not maintained, oil wasn't changed often enough, rod bearings spun....

You're telling me its idiocy to rebuild/replace the LD9 vs buying an eco, eco trans, a bunch of @!#$ like the pcm, rad, wiring, etc etc, and dropping that it????

Really?


No, he is telling you if you think a 190k mile 2.4 makes more power then a 5k mile eco, you're an idiot. Don't know how you missed that.


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs
Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Friday, April 06, 2012 8:07 PM
I know just running the ld9 would have been cheaper and easier, but I couldn't have sold the Eco motor for the price of a SC or turbo setup. Junkyard run yielded noting. They crushed the two Eco Cavs they had.



Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Sunday, April 08, 2012 6:50 AM
You were right on all accounts Brian. Found out the transmission is okay. Now the car turns over but won't start. How do you check for spark on these?



Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Sunday, April 08, 2012 7:37 PM
To check spark on an Ecotec: If you have no special tools, you can try unbolting the ignition coil assembly from the cam cover, put a plug in one of the boots, have it's electrode laying on any engine ground surface and have someone crank the motor.

Will be buying a Crankshaft Position Sensor tomorrow since that has come up as the problem during multiple searches.



Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 7:54 PM
Jumped timing also came up as a possibility, but the car drove perfect prior to pulling the motor. Can't imagine timing jumped from sitting around.



Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:36 PM
Had a couple of hours to work on the car today. Had bought a Crankshaft Position Sensor to be installed along with checking fuel pressure, compression, and spark. After crawling under the car and looking all over for the CPS I had to search the internet for my answer as to where it was. When I found out it was behind the starter I was more than a little confused on the location.

I know GM missed the boat on a few things, but this seems like a dumb place to put it. In order to access it the starter had to be removed. After it was pulled off diagnosing the problem was easy...it wasn't plugged in. The wiring for the CPS was routed to the wrong part of the engine bay and I didn't know where the connections went anyway. I would have never looked behind the starter anyway so it wouldn't have mattered. Tried to start the car after figuring this out...no dice.

Pulled off coil pack and ICM to check for spark and found none. Tomorrow I'm running up to Cleveland Auto Salvage to get the parts. Hopefully after this the car will run. The other issue we came across is figuring out how the starter gets its power since I didn't see any wires that would accomplish that, just the ground.



Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Monday, April 23, 2012 1:26 PM
Starter.... 12v red wire from battery to starter, to post on Alt. Rubbery Purple wire in the engine harness goes to small post on the starter.

Always thought the CPS on the Eco was goofy, with that little adapter harness and everything.




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '80 Chevette Quad 4 Swap

TeamGREENPerformance LSD Inserts
Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Monday, April 23, 2012 1:39 PM
You know way more about Ecos than I thought you did. Always thought you were just a LD9 guy. Thanks Brian.



Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Thursday, April 26, 2012 6:16 PM
Replaced the coil and ICM. Still no spark. While looking around in the engine bay I found a couple things that shouldn't be floating around.

- The lower o2 sensor harness. (Run up into engine bay from the o2, but not sure were it goes.)
- On the end of the end of the harness that the CPS on it there is a 2 wire connector with a red and green wire.
- On the same part of harness but towards the battery more, there is a end with 4 wires which have been cut off. (Purple with a white stripe, Blue, and two white ones).



Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Saturday, April 28, 2012 10:55 AM
The plan for tomorrow is to connect all the cooling system hoses and button up what I can. During the week it will be towed to behind the house where it will sit for 2 weeks at most. During this time frame Zac will be trying to get the Lotus Diagnostic Scanner from LTC via a friend to have the car tested to see if the ICM is getting power and the crankshaft position sensor is working. Without the Diagnostic scanner he isn't able to diagnose the problem.

If he hasn't been able to acquire this I will be towing it to a shop TBD and having them finish swap. :no:




Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:33 PM
We checked a few things that should have been checked earlier and found a couple things...
Compression at 150 on all cylinders
Fuel pressure at 55
No fuel; injector signal
No spark as before



Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Sunday, May 06, 2012 2:53 PM
Quote from thedodgeguy's wife (current status of car):

Zac says Modus scanner wont connect to your computer. So he recommends to talk to chevy dealer and say i'm offically backed into a corner with my car and don't know whats wrong with it. He has his hand tied on this situation and its pretty much ur last option

My response:

K...just gotta get the coolant system hooked up like I was hoping to do last weekend. Then I will be able to tow it there if they will look at it.




Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Sunday, May 06, 2012 4:07 PM
Good luck with the dealership...... IF they will even look at it, they will most likely bend you over in labor fees.

You used a complete EcoTec engine harness? Made sure the ECU had power?


SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '80 Chevette Quad 4 Swap

TeamGREENPerformance LSD Inserts
Re: 2001 Sunfire Engine swap NIGHTMARE!
Sunday, May 06, 2012 4:33 PM
yes...I was able to read the program to the laptop, but made no changes.



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