Gotta love it when people ask questions on things they already apparently know the answer to.

Im with PJ. Building an engine generally causes more hassles in the long run than a stock engine. As @!#$ty as you may thing GM is unless you do a full rebuild with good (and very expensive) machine work you will never see the long term reliability of a stock engine. 90% of home rebuilders can hold the tolerances and quality control that the factory engine assembly plant can.

After all of that work you will have $10000 in a $2500 car that my stock Accord sedan will walk up and down the street. Cost vs reward. It just doesnt make sense. Throw a turbo on a good running stock 2200. Get a good tune and enjoy 200whp for like $3000.

I dunno why people have to be so harsh over some simple questions...you can be informative without being insulting. Want to know why I want a 2.2 build and why I am thinking about "wasting money" ?

My first car was a LN2 cavalier. I liked that car. It was simple, reliable, and easy to work on. After years of other cars (including Ecotec and LD9 cars), I have found I don't enjoy working on my cars doing repairs, I enjoy modifying them. I wanted to buy a 5 spd LN2, and the easiest way to get 160+ HP was a small turbocharger from what I have read.

Most of the LN2 cars in my area have over 120k miles on them. I have two kids, and I want them to be safe when they are in the car, and I want it to be reliable enough to where it won't blow up on a family trip to the beach.

I am sure my ideas seem stupid to you, but the goal is to have a basically new/overhauled car that can run 14's, sounds good, looks good, handles good, and stops good for less than $5000. I am sure I seem like a giant idiot to everyone here because I have what seems like stupid goals...but all you have to do is inform me...I asked, I know what I want, but not entirely how to get there...sure, constructive criticism is welcome, but so far there has been far more criticism than actual help.

I am not going to be racing accords, nor do I need the fastest thing out there. Does it really bother all of you that much that I want a daily driver to haul the kids in that is safer than it was from the factory and yet at least has a little more grunt than an ecotec with some bolt ons? Most ecotecs around here are going for around 5k for one without major problems, and they usually have 100k miles or more...whats wrong with wanting to build something that will be better with new parts for less cost?




Coming soon: Project Nighthawk

We're being harsh because we've told you the best way to go about reaching your goals and you don't seem to care for those ideas. In the end it is your build but you will never build a LN2 that will outperform an ECO or LD9 with bolt-on's for 5 grand especially if that's your total invested price.

I never said I didn't care about those ideas, I have simply been defending myself from all the crap people have been giving me. I have said multiple times if forged things aren't required, I will not bother with them...I also said if a tune and injectors are, then that's what I will spend the cash on. Also, I plan to fabricate most of this myself...none of you know anything about me or have bothered to find out if I have built engines before, if I can weld, or do much else other than comment how stupid I am and that I need a tune and injectors. Believe me, I get it...that's why I said it was my first turbo build and I asked for advice.

Besides, even if I was unable to weld, you do realize there are turbo kits out there that are under $3k that do not use chinese junk, right? That means if I have $1k spent on the purchase of the car I would still have a $1k budget for a new oil and water pump, engine overhaul kit to replace the piston rings and all the gaskets, a clutch, and have cash left over. Now, if I actually build a turbo kit rather than buy one, I would expect that price to be a little bit lower, wouldn't you?

I never said I would not take anyones advice, I have just spent the last half a dozen posts explaining why I thought how I did and the reasons for my original ideas. What do you expect someone to do when they ask if this is right, and instead of someone just saying no, they go out of their way to make you feel stupid...you will probably defend yourself .

So guess people will keep shoveling the crap on...but I have seen timeslips of plenty of people on JBO, and some of them even have fully built ecotecs and are only running 14s. Some of the 6psi and under "stage 1" kits that are around $3k have bumped up the LN2's power to over my target of 160hp at the wheels. If a stock LN2 with a 5speed runs 16s with maybe 100hp to the wheels, maybe you can see how I would think that building a turbo set up for myself I might be able to crack 14s and do it for less than the 5k a used 04 or 05 sunfire costs around here. To reiterate, I don't care what parts it takes to get to the 160+hp range, and I do not mind overbuilding or going overboard on the build in order to keep it reliable, I just have a goal of high 14's and reasonable reliability. I am not trying to shoot anyone's advice down in the slightest, so can we please lighten up just a bit? Just because someone is wrong on the internet you don't have to go all jbodygangbang or whatever.




Coming soon: Project Nighthawk

By the way, you won't have to worry about me asking any more stupid questions or telling you my contradictory goals after this. I had forgotten the other reason I left jbodys before. It was not just because of the problems I had with my ecotec, the other part of it was the community. Everyone seems to enjoy slamming each other here way to much...and you know, I don't come to a car enthusiast website to look at that kind of crap, if I wanted to I would be registered to a honda board. For me, I am going to find a different website to learn about forced induction where people will inform you without insulting you, and leave everyone here to feel superior about how awesome they are and how stupid new people are.

Thank you again to those that helped!




Coming soon: Project Nighthawk

Your failing to understand that people are saying go do what you want. Its just your goal hp isnt worth the hassle a turbo car can bring.

But at the end of the day.

Build your turbo setup and get a solid tune.

You do not need to rebuild the 2200 and it will be fine with stock internals for the goals your wanting.

Tune it to whatever power level you want and enjoy.

PS.....if you go on a Honda forum and tell them you want to boost it to make 160hp....they will tell you its not worth it too.

Nighthawk - ok fine I will take your words into account and re-issue new advice:

Rebuild the engine as you plan to - as I said the Weisco pistons are overkill so you can go with stock pistons and rods... if there is something you should focus on with the LN2 it's the head. Get it to flow more - you can make more HP with less pressure from the turbo that way and keep wear down if that's your concern.

Make yourself a log manifold or try to spot a cast one on ebay maybe - bolt up a stock T3 turbo from another car to reach your goals. You may end up with a Mitsu turbo to do this but I'm sure there are stock T3 turbos that should meet your goals of a few PSI and a nice kick in the bottom end. Run it with the stock wastegate actuator as they generally have a 5-8 psi range on them. (Don't stress about the actuator you can get a lower PSI one if you are concerned off another car or new from ATP Turbo.)

Heat coat the downpipe, turbine section and manifold - shield the alternator. Turbos on the 2.2 near the alt like to just ruin them in no time flat. The heat coating will also up the efficiency of the turbo especially at low range.

A "great" goal to hit is 10 hp/ psi. Most won't hit that though, you have to expect closer to 7-8 hp/psi... even with making your head flow more. The OHC is restrictive in many ways. Your 2.2 will put out about 90-95 hp to the wheels... to hit 160 you need about 60-65 more HP. That means you need about 8 psi on a decent turbo to achieve this - bear that in mind.

Lastly ensure you go with the newer J-bodies to do this on a 2.2 - the fueling system is more upgrade friendly and the PCM can be tuned.

To sum up my advice: refresh the engine to stock form, find/make a turbo manifold and find a turbo that will fit off another stock engine. (Rebuild the turbo)... plumb the system, use t-bolt clamps (not worm gear) for the charge pipping, run a 2.5" exhaust and enjoy the ride. The LN2 is a STOUT motor and if you tune it right with an upgraded set of injectors there is absolutely no reason at all that it shouldn't run well and run reliably.

Sorry to see that you'd like to do this the hard way but hey we're all stubborn in our own ways, right? Nobody is ganging up on you here, we have just watched too many LN2 guys dump time and effort into the engine only to give up because the cost/gain ratio is far lower than an eco swap.

And just so you know, I've seen blown 350 small blocks only run high 13's on the track. The driver / traction / engine tune go a long long long way to determining a track time. In 2006 we had somebody bolt a turbo onto an LD9 and run a 12.8. He ran 15 psi for years. It's all in the tune.

Good luck!

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...