Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark - Performance Forum

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Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Sunday, May 05, 2013 2:16 PM
Can I put a switch on a water/methanol kit to set off and use the high octane spark table with the meth a d the low octane table with the switch off??

I know that the car switch itselft on the 2 table but if it knocks because the saitch is off I will go to the low octane but when the switch will go on for meth, the car will switch itself to High octane?

Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Sunday, May 05, 2013 2:34 PM
im lost, whats wrong with a WOT or pressure switch now?

whats ur setup?



M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Sunday, May 05, 2013 2:41 PM
Nothing is wrong... My friend have methanol kit and want to put a thoggle switch to set off ke meth kit!

I want to know if the car will switch itselft between the high and the low spark table and the meth kit is On or Off!

I have HP tuner and I know that I can make this 2 table differants
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 5:37 AM
He has a knock issue and can only get 3* of timing. So instead of getting to the root of the issue he is wanting to slap meth on it hoping itll fix it.
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 7:52 AM
If you are asking how to force the PCM between the High octane and Low octane tables (i.e on a toggle switch) you not only don't know how the PCM works but you don't know how HPTuners works.

You should really stop self tuning.... like, right now.

-Chris-




-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 8:21 AM
Philly D wrote:

He has a knock issue and can only get 3* of timing. So instead of getting to the root of the issue he is wanting to slap meth on it hoping itll fix it.


This not the same guy! This on is okey with knocks sensor
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 8:25 AM
SweetnessGT wrote:

If you are asking how to force the PCM between the High octane and Low octane tables (i.e on a toggle switch) you not only don't know how the PCM works but you don't know how HPTuners works.

You should really stop self tuning.... like, right now.

-Chris-


I don't want to switch between table with a switch! Just the methanol kit...

And if when the methanol kit is set OFF I want to know if the pcm will take itselft le ow octane table!

And when the methanol kit is set ON if the pcm will take the high octane automatically if not knocks
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 8:36 AM
I use the Snow Performance Stage 3 kit.
Its a progressive kit that is boost activated.
Some kits are only on or off, this kit has a variable voltage output to the pump, so you have a set "on", and full power .
Mine turns on at 12 PSI, and is pull power at 22 PSI.
It takes some time to dial it in, because of the progressive activations, buts its well worth it.
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 8:36 AM
I'm not trying to be mean here, please understand that... it's just that you are clearly not doing your car any good trying to tune it yourself.

With that said:

The PCM's use of the high octane and low octane table is gradual. You are setting a high and a low limit for it on a daily basis... as it sees less knock it will make its way to through the higher octane table to its max at any given cell that it is hitting. If it knocks, based on sensor response it will immediately pull the set knock retard timing during the event, and will make note and make its way to the low octane table.

The thing is these changes aren't gradual. If you switch on your meth it isn't going to immediately fire its way up the High octane table.

I really think you need to sit down and figure out your knocking issue before you go and add another variable (meth) to it.

And just so you know, just as too-advanced timing can cause heat in the combustion chamber, so can too-retarded timing. There is a fine balance between too much and too little timing which is why the use of an EGT probe is used. A lot of people tend to forget this...

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 8:40 AM
Its just because if the guy is over of windshield washer and set OFF the kit...

Do you understand?? I speak french, I'm in quebec-canada and it's a little hard to explane what I want..

I know how hptuner works and normally I copy the low and high octane to be the same

But if I put my methanol spark table to the high octane and put a safe spark table with less advance in the low octane table for when my friend set OFF is Meth kit do you think the car will be safe
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 9:05 AM
So the question is, can one install a meth kit and only arm it some of the time(say, the at track) and run without it while on the street without hurting the motor?



"In Oldskool we trust"

Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 9:19 AM
Y3llowCav wrote:

So the question is, can one install a meth kit and only arm it some of the time(say, the at track) and run without it while on the street without hurting the motor?


Yeah it can be like this... Without retune it because my friend don't have HPT
Or something like drive ak work all weak the kit set completly OFF and the weakend switch the kit ON

Have a tune with high octane like 20 degrees in high octane table and put normal 15 degrees to the low octane table
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 9:28 AM
SweetnessGT wrote:


I really think you need to sit down and figure out your knocking issue before you go and add another variable (meth) to it.

-Chris-


I don't have a y knock issue with my friend's car and with methanol and more timing too

Without meth my tune is perfect and my other tune with more timing and methanol is perfect

But I only want to know if I can put my meth spark table in the HO table and put my standard tune to the LO table and run the car safe with the meth kit powered off
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 9:30 AM
This is just an idea.... If it can be done stop the posting and close the thread
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 9:39 AM
SweetnessGT wrote:

And just so you know, just as too-advanced timing can cause heat in the combustion chamber, so can too-retarded timing. There is a fine balance between too much and too little timing which is why the use of an EGT probe is used. A lot of people tend to forget this...

-Chris-


I know this

Low timing cause unburned gas and make alot of EGT
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 11:42 AM
Sure you can have it armed part of the time, but then you have to dial in a conservative tune for this... unfortunately the PCM won't know that the meth kit is "on" or "off".

Now if you had a piggy back or standalone there is usually a way to tell the computer to switch to a different table but the stock PCM doesn't have this capability. All you can do is tune it a bit conservatively for when the meth is off.

Jean, if you want to be able to drive without meth during the week (a daily driver tune) and then be able to utilize meth on the weekends (a racing tune) you are simply going to have to have HPT at your fingertips and be able to upload the tune you want to utilize at that given time. It's an unfortunate shortcoming but it's just the way it's going to have to be if that's the scenario you want.

Lastly, your English isn't that bad, you definitely got your question across... though I often wonder why Quebecers struggle with English when I'm in Ontario we are forced in school to learn fluent French as both languages are the native language of Canada.

Passez une bonne journée mon ami!!

-Chris-




-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 12:23 PM
SweetnessGT wrote:

Jean, if you want to be able to drive without meth during the week (a daily driver tune) and then be able to utilize meth on the weekends (a racing tune) you are simply going to have to have HPT at your fingertips and be able to upload the tune you want to utilize at that given time. It's an unfortunate shortcoming but it's just the way it's going to have to be if that's the scenario you want.

My thoughts exactly. That would be the only way to do it effectively and safely.

SweetnessGT wrote:

Lastly, your English isn't that bad, you definitely got your question across... though I often wonder why Quebecers struggle with English when I'm in Ontario we are forced in school to learn fluent French as both languages are the native language of Canada.

My Quebecian friends explain it as a French Canadian pride thing But x2 your English is fine!



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Monday, May 06, 2013 12:48 PM
2 pcm is easy to switch in 5 seconde.. Probably the best of the best..

One pcm for meth and one pcm for no meth (switch OFF of the pressure sensor)
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Tuesday, May 07, 2013 9:49 PM
Philly D wrote:

He has a knock issue and can only get 3* of timing. So instead of getting to the root of the issue he is wanting to slap meth on it hoping itll fix it.


call me lost but why do you think engines need higher octane content? its not because people plan things incorrectly.

meth injection not only cools the intake charge, it also allows the use of higher compression and or more spark advance.. thus, creating more power. sure one can do the same with race gas, e85, or otherwise but meth works just the same.



M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:17 AM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

Philly D wrote:

He has a knock issue and can only get 3* of timing. So instead of getting to the root of the issue he is wanting to slap meth on it hoping itll fix it.


call me lost but why do you think engines need higher octane content? its not because people plan things incorrectly.

meth injection not only cools the intake charge, it also allows the use of higher compression and or more spark advance.. thus, creating more power. sure one can do the same with race gas, e85, or otherwise but meth works just the same.


He made a post in the boost forum in regards to not being able to get over 3* of timing without knocking. That signifies a mechanical or tuning issue.

I assumed since its the same poster that it was his car and was trying to up the octane to run more timing instead of fixing the issue at hand. Apparently its not the same car so thats not the case.
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:26 AM
was that 3* advanced over stock or??? i guess i just dont see the complication. if it was built with high compression, boost, etc then why does it signify a mechanical or tuning issue?



M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!

Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:27 AM
Philly D wrote:

-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

Philly D wrote:

He has a knock issue and can only get 3* of timing. So instead of getting to the root of the issue he is wanting to slap meth on it hoping itll fix it.


call me lost but why do you think engines need higher octane content? its not because people plan things incorrectly.

meth injection not only cools the intake charge, it also allows the use of higher compression and or more spark advance.. thus, creating more power. sure one can do the same with race gas, e85, or otherwise but meth works just the same.


He made a post in the boost forum in regards to not being able to get over 3* of timing without knocking. That signifies a mechanical or tuning issue.

I assumed since its the same poster that it was his car and was trying to up the octane to run more timing instead of fixing the issue at hand. Apparently its not the same car so thats not the case.


Thats right! The car with methanol run fine and this is the car of a friend but tuned by myself
This post is just an idea or brainstorming

The car with knocks problem is mine and I don't have whater meth and this is an other topic
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:30 AM
And for my friend idea he will pick up a second pcm to easy swap config because I don't want to reflash all the times he will use or not use his methanol kit!
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Wednesday, May 08, 2013 4:26 PM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

was that 3* advanced over stock or??? i guess i just dont see the complication. if it was built with high compression, boost, etc then why does it signify a mechanical or tuning issue?


Off topic....

But if your only able to run 3* timing....not 3* above stock but 3* total at WOT then there is an issue. Usually we are in the 16* range...higher with meth and such.

Sorry OP..
Re: Water/methanol switch and high and low octane spark
Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:51 PM
what sort of issue are you suggesting?



M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!
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