I did the exact same thing as PJ, except I just drilled the bronze bushings to accept 8mm bolts and then got some 8mm socket head bolts.

With the exception that I epoxied the PCV hole in my manifold shut.

As for the cam sensor boss and the master, I clearanced the head to clear the brake lines with a carbide bit...tonnes of meat there to play with.

so Im not sure why this isn't a Sticky yet.. but bringing it back.
I am looking for a stock L61 bottom end for now to get my car back up and running (ill build it later when I have the budget). But now instead of a ported L61 to toss my L61 JBP stage2 cams in with 78lb supertech springs, Im wondering if I should just look for an LSJ head/valve cover and run the LSJ cams and put in the Supertech springs Ive got. Or upgrade the LSJ cams to a slightly more aggressive set while its all out already.

But basically I am looking at what all needs to be modded that I can prep before dropping the LSJ top end onto the L61 bottom end. I noticed the temperature sensor was one thing. I already have an LSJ intake manifold gasket, and I will need a new LSJ Pace Setter header gasket since mine is all cracked up and broken from a years worth of abuse. Those are easy and fairly cheap.

Im going to reread this thread 2 or 3 more times and try to put all the 'need to modify' bits into one chunk so I can just start shopping for parts and finding someone to help with necessary custom mods like welding here, porting there, etc.

I wish I was at this stage a month ago, needing LSJ parts. My friend had a spare block, head, and other parts he'd give me if I wanted them. Instead he sold his 06 cobalt ss/sc and gave the guy everything he had for it..a garage full of Cobalt crap


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

IIRC....

If you run LSJ cams you dont have to mod anything.....just run it.

If you run L61 cams you have to block off the oil port on the exhaust cam by the cam sensor housing.

**For supercharged guys the check valve in out intake manifold is known to fail which will pressurize the crank case. Some of the better known cobalt guys drill and tap a plug for the pcv hole in between cyl 2 and 3 to stop that.

Edit..

YOu have to also make a block off plate for where the cam sensor used to be.

Im thinking of just looking into upgrading LSJ cams vs using my L61 cams and selling them.
Ive found a few L61 short blocks locally, so getting that soon shouldn't be a problem.
Now Im going to look into the LSJ head/cover setup and what extent to mod it. I still like the idea of a good P&P and cam upgrade. I know the factory L61 rods wont appreciate going to overboard, but I feel getting me to the 300fwhp mark will be good if Im not abusing it on a daily basis and will last long enough to have a new motor built by maybe next summer.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

the plastic manifolds aren't a direct bolt-on

you can modify the manifolds to fit by clearancing them by the PCV hole on the LSJ head, and tapping the hole on the head out to 1/4" NPT and using a threaded fitting.
you then need to block the PCV opening on the manifold itself (since it's bypassed) somehow.... either epoxy, or a rubber piece that blocks the hole.

if you use a saab 9-3 intake manifold, it's a direct bolt-on with the LSJ intake gasket
same for the LSJ supercharger intake manifold...


bolting the head on, there's really not much to modify other than the intake side depending on what you want to do.

you can run the L61 ignition by removing the top cover from the cassette and just forcing it down. I machined the LSJ ignition cover to hold mine down

like so


or, you can swap to LSJ ignition and re-wire them to fire in wasted spark mode so the Jbody electronics can use them. you lose your cam sensor and single-fire mode doing this tho (no real downsides IMO)



I made a nice cover for them too. baller status.


the only other thing to be careful of is the exhaust cam flange for the LSJ cam sensor. It's very close to the stock master cylinder. I don't have this issue because I swapped to manual brakes, and the manual brake master cylinder (since I don't have a booster) is a few inches shorter than stock.

well Im running a ported M62/LSJ manifold already, so no worries there.
the brake thing..I guess Ill deal with it when I get to that stage. right now im just trying to get the parts together, order all the necessary gaskets and proper bolts, and then Im good. Ill be happy to be able to use thicker 8mm bolts vs 6mm...ive already broken 4 off into my head, only 2 were able to be extracted... I have all the original 8mm bolts too from the 'kit' I bought off the guys cobalt.

your cover looks sick! I think im going to plan on keeping the stock L61 ignition though and just modifying the cover (and I need to remember to use LSJ plugs..)


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

thanks man.

yea the LSJ head really does offer a lot of advantages over the L61 head.

I like the COP from the LSJ because it seems that the L61 ignition is kind of weak by comparison...

but that is pure speculation, I don't have any actual evidence to back it up. I do like the COP better tho since it is an OEM part and bolts right into place.

Yah Blu..

Go with the LSJ coils. Ill be swapping to them shortly now that I have HPT and can turn the code off. The setup I have is decent but kinda janky as far as im concerned.

You Can Un Bolt the brake master cylinder from the booster to slide the head on.that's what i did.

Philly, where on the cavalier harness does the splicing happen? Im just hesitant to hack up my factory wiring harness, though theres not much factory about my car anymore lol


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

Youd have to ask PJ about that. Pretty sure it can be done on the coil side of things. So the factory harness is not affected.

Pj posted some info in his build thread a while back on the swap. Dont get me wrong the modded cover and L61 coil pack does work just fine. Ive been running it for over a year. But it just isnt as solid as the LSJ coils.

will an LSJ mate up to the F23/clutch/flywheel from an L61?
Also does the starter and all the other little parts bolt into the same locations? (this would include the motor mounts)

Theres a complete LSJ motor (minus the oil pan) with low mileage. Might be worth to do a full swap and figure out the crank sensor and all the little stuff.

thoughts?

oh and would the return fuel system be the same, as in bolt right up too? fuel rail...etc. I actually have an LSJ fuel rail from the s/c kit I bought last year and never sold it


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, May 21, 2013 10:41 PM

04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

Very low mileage 2.4L LE5 complete locally...From what Ive been reading the LE5 and the LSJ are the same as far as all the bolt ons...just a bigger displacement right?
Im actually finding more complete LSJ's/LE5's than L61's when comparing the condition and mileage within a few cities.

**also, would I be able to use my L61/HPTuned ECU for either engine? or need the ECU/harness as well? def not going that route if thats the case...





Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, May 22, 2013 11:15 AM

04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

blu04DD wrote:will an LSJ mate up to the F23/clutch/flywheel from an L61?
Also does the starter and all the other little parts bolt into the same locations? (this would include the motor mounts)

Theres a complete LSJ motor (minus the oil pan) with low mileage. Might be worth to do a full swap and figure out the crank sensor and all the little stuff.

thoughts?

oh and would the return fuel system be the same, as in bolt right up too? fuel rail...etc. I actually have an LSJ fuel rail from the s/c kit I bought last year and never sold it

I've covered this in multiple threads over the years, but I can't even find them to link, and without sucking off a mod information never gets stickied here, so I'll recap for you:

L61 and LE5 clutch/ flywheels will interchange no problem. Use the F23 no problem.
LSJ and LNF clutch/ flywheels will interchange no problem.

to use the LSJ with the F23 in the jbody, you need an LSJ clutch and flywheel. you cannot mix/match the clutch/flywheel assemblies.
the flywheel needs to match the crank, and the clutch has to match the flywheel. no hybrid combinations for these parts.

L61 and LE5 have 6 bolt crankshafts... meaning the flywheel is attached with 6 bolts.
LSJ and LNF have 8 bolt crankshafts


also, you will need a transmission spacer for use of the LSJ on the F23. the pressure plate is a bit bigger, so the trans needs to be spaced about 1/8" to clear.
It's a $30 part from GM brand new, pm me if you want the part number.

the ecotec engines in family II are the same architecture, so almost all of the accessories bolt on the same way in the same place (Alternator, Starter, etc)
fuel rails interchange freely, however direct injected models have different head castings so be careful here.

you will need an L61 oil pan no matter what ecotec you choose for the mounting boss for the lower dogbone.

power steering depends on if you stay purebred ecotec and which ecotec

if you hybrid with the L61, this is a non-issue.
if you purebred LSJ swap, the jbody ecotec pump bolts in the normal place.
if you purebred LE5 swap, there is no cam-drive provisions, so you will have to mount a pump some other way. (a few shops sell adapters to use PS pumps in the old a/c location)

other odds and ends

LSJ swap:

L61 thermostat housing NEEDS to be used in order to clear the shifter bracket on the F23
LSJ oil cooler is in the way of the L61 thermostat housing (you can chop the thermo housing and make a ghetto lower rad hose to get around this, or buy an adapter that replaces the LSJ oil cooler and lets you run external lines to a remote mounted cooler. PM me for details)
LSJ gives you an extra coolant temp sensor by the upper rad hose
LSJ has a cam-drive boss on the exhaust cam that needs to be covered with a block off plate. A gasket needs to be made because this will leak oil if there's no gasket.
LSJ has different PCV setup. if you plan on using a plastic manifold, the head and the manifold need to be modified in order to work. Saab 9-3 turbo manifold is a direct swap with no mods, but the manifold is kind of crappy flow-wise.
LSJ alternator spins backwards. use an L61 alternator if you're not using the LSJ supercharger.

LE5 swap:

L61 thermostat housing NEEDS to be used in order to clear the F23 shifter bracket
some LE5s had oil coolers, some didn't. if it doesn't have one, then you're in the clear, if it does, then you will have the same issues as the LSJ oil cooler, and will need to do something in order to clear it.
VVT is an issue. need the native E67 PCM to run this in purebred form.


the other big hurdle is the crank trigger ring. all the newer ecotecs have a 60-2 pattern (58x) vs the L61's 6+1 (7x)
they will NOT run on jbody electronics without an external crank trigger that is timed properly

if you run an LE5 with a non-vvt head, then you'll need a trigger
LSJ purebred or hybrid you'll need a trigger
LE5 purebred will only run on E67 PCM, so yea... trigger not necessary here, you need to have the native PCM


every external trigger setup has been slightly different so far, so depending on how you mount your sensor, the timing of the ring is relative.

any other questions just shoot me a PM, it's way easier for me to keep track then chasing you thru multiple threads lol

yeah different threads have different information. and when you bring up a question in a non-related thread people start freaking out (i use the search feature quite often for specific questions).
but that is a great consolidated summary of whats what.

Im definitely sold on the LSJ swap. Whether I do that now or not is the question. I can get a healthy L61 for a few hundred, and have the car back up and running in no time.
Or, I can leave it on jack stands, and slowly build an LSJ over a few months. I dont like this option. My truck has low mileage and I plan on keeping it that way, as a weekend hauler/emergency vehicle.

So getting a healthy L61 back in (with my cams/springs) and finding an LSJ to really build up might be my best option. Im also prob looking at a clutch replacement since mine has been slipping under 2nd gear burnouts and really hard shifts. though maybe this is a poorly aligned clutch from the install last year..? Im not sure..but the stage2 i have is 'supposed' to hold up to 280hp and i know im not there (yet)

appreciate all the info...helps a lot knowing a few have tried and tested all this! if i go LSJ it will be basically with the intentions of supporting a much higher hp/tq output (TVS). its a 4day weekend as i am taking tomorrow and get monday off. so i have no excuses to at least get my motor completely out ready for an install.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

If it were me...(especially since you want to drive the car) Id snag an l61, toss it in to get you by. Grab an exedy clutch kit for around $200 shipped. Mine lasted 20k miles of HARD abuse. (Clutch That way you are back on the road at least and can enjoy the car while building.

Yeah I agree.
And this thread alone will be more than enough information for me to really plan out a nice fully built motor capable of anything a supercharger can throw at it (including the TVS).
I can get one locally but its disassembled, mileage unknown, and most likely been exposed to the outdoor elements for some time. The L61's are just not popping up very much, especially one id trust being fully boosted without being rebuilt.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

so with the LSJ purebred swap...I would need to figure out the external trigger deal.
I was reading this...and I love how the thread ends...haha...lmao



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, May 24, 2013 12:02 AM

04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

also, Ill look around on here and try to stumble across an old post of PJ's like this one, but want to look into the oil cooler modfications and how to work around it, utilizing it obviously with a purebred LSJ swap.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

blu04DD wrote:also, Ill look around on here and try to stumble across an old post of PJ's like this one, but want to look into the oil cooler modfications and how to work around it, utilizing it obviously with a purebred LSJ swap.

couple options.

remove stock oil cooler
pull the sleeve out of the one side
tap both holes and plug them

remove stock oil cooler
tap sleeve
tap other hole
run external lines
(not sure if this is really possible or not)

remove stock oil cooler
install aftermarket external adapter
run -AN lines to external oil cooler
(this is the option I went with)

when you say 'external cooler', is this moving the factory one or requiring a whole new oil cooler?
from what I understand aftermarket coolers aren't cheap...but id want to utilize the LSJs capabilities as much as possible really.

does removing the cooler (option 1) cause any issues or negative effects other than not having the advantage of cooling down the oil?


found this: http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-0l-lsj-performance-tech-47/onecoldbizl272s-custom-oil-cooler-set-up-219490/

?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Friday, May 24, 2013 11:12 PM

04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

Derek, the other option I'm working on is modding the LSJ thermo housing so if clears the shift cable bracket, allowing you run the oil cooler as designed. I just need to get myself over to the shop doing it to pick it up...I basically cut some of the corner off where it hits the bracket, cut some tube to replace it, and they are welding it back together.
If works when all said and done, I can either get you detailed pics of what to do, or if you send a thermo housing my way I can have my shop do it for you.

For the time being I used the l61 thermo housing, and just cut the water neck short of the cooler, and through a 90* hose to clear the cooler. Looks a bit ghetto for now, but it works.

well the reason Im interested in this stuff is because daily it seems different options come up, from a working L61 for a few hundred to a complete engine...its looking favorable right now that I could get my hands on a low mileage LSJ complete, but waiting on his head to be rebuilt and sent back to him. if Im going to spend the money, id rather drop a few hundred more and get it done with a solid foundation able to handle anything my M62 setup can throw at it.

I do like the idea of keeping the factory oil cooler as is, but ive also been looking at externally mounted ones and they sure do look cool


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

that lets you run an external... you eliminate the factory cooler.


the factory cooler uses coolant to cool the oil... an "oil to water" cooler

that picture (a picture of my car actually lol) lets you run an oil to air cooler


I like this option because it doesn't require modification of existing parts. it's a bit more expensive, but you can use the L61 housing right off your engine and just bolt it on to the LSJ. bolt on the adapter and you're pretty much done save for lines and fittings.


you don't even have to run the cooler, you can run a loop if you want (what I'm doing right now on HavBlue.