Project V8 Z24 - Update - Performance Forum

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Project V8 Z24 - Update
Sunday, June 16, 2013 4:58 PM
Hello all,
This thread was started in the Newbies forum and decided to move it here.
Had an opportunity to finalize the front suspension height. the stock Z24 springs were trimmed 1-1/2 coils. I also rolled the fenders - just in case


Will be finalizing the fuel lines and starting it up - looking for problems prior to paint. Will be posting a video when complete.
Cheers




Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Sunday, June 16, 2013 6:56 PM
Yikes... you cut the springs... I see this ending in disaster.



Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Sunday, June 16, 2013 10:50 PM
BuiltNBoosted wrote:

Yikes... you cut the springs... I see this ending in disaster.


Go read the rest of the build thread in the newbies forum before being a dip@!#$. Thanks.



Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Monday, June 17, 2013 12:41 AM
So he cut variable rate springs from a newer impala... that makes it allllllll better. Just because you are interested in it and have a hard on for it, doesnt make cutting springs that much better for it.

last I knew cavaliers had variable rate springs as well and we have seen how well those turned out havnt we?



Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Monday, June 17, 2013 5:24 AM
I was using the impala springs thinking I needed more rate. I bought new Cavalier springs and still gave me too high of a ride height - same as the Impala.(?) I used the Impala springs as they had more coils - less pitch. This would increase spring rate to a lesser degree when cutting. I have cut springs in the past with no issues, and researched this to death prior to this time. I had a 67 Camaro Pro Street. Moroso tech told me to trim their springs using an angle grinder until the desired ride height. Eibach springs (others too) cut / shear their springs after wound to final length. The only factor that will affect the spring's integrity when cutting, is heat, so I use a hack saw to rule out this completely. Please see one of many links below for cutting coils. Also keep in mind no one makes springs for this application. Eibach said they could make me springs, but will need the four corner weights and a host of other info. I will pursue this in it's time, as I want to have good handling.

http://www.eatonsprings.com/cuttingcoilsprings.html




Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Monday, June 17, 2013 5:53 AM
Cut your springs all day long...still safer than towing a car on a trailer with a cavalier in my book
Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Monday, June 17, 2013 6:10 AM
In for updates and video!




Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Monday, June 17, 2013 12:49 PM
BuiltNBoosted wrote:

So he cut variable rate springs from a newer impala... that makes it allllllll better. Just because you are interested in it and have a hard on for it, doesnt make cutting springs that much better for it.

last I knew cavaliers had variable rate springs as well and we have seen how well those turned out havnt we?


Sorry if I came off wrong. I just got home from the bar when I posted haha.

I just dont want this to turn into cutting springs @!#$ storm AGAIN. IMO there's no point to picking apart a car with this much custom work for piddly reasons.




Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Monday, June 17, 2013 1:23 PM
Brian wrote:

BuiltNBoosted wrote:

So he cut variable rate springs from a newer impala... that makes it allllllll better. Just because you are interested in it and have a hard on for it, doesnt make cutting springs that much better for it.

last I knew cavaliers had variable rate springs as well and we have seen how well those turned out havnt we?


Sorry if I came off wrong. I just got home from the bar when I posted haha.

I just dont want this to turn into cutting springs @!#$ storm AGAIN. IMO there's no point to picking apart a car with this much custom work for piddly reasons.


Its fine but I just think back to the pictures of cars with broken springs from cutting them... or the aftermath of that purple car having cut springs. I know a long time ago, Eli posted pics of cut springs that basically blew out the side of the springs.

To me safety is not a piddly reason. Those springs are going to be seeing some serious action from the torque and power of that motor. I just see this thing lifting front wheels and slamming down, or just the weight transfer lifting pressure off the front springs and bad things happening. For whats invested in this and the wow factor, i personally couldn't do cut springs. OP's car is nice and unique, I would just hate to see it all end in a blaze because of cut springs.

Yes the older springs you had in your 67 were a whole different world. You could cut them all day long. Now a days, they are designed with different rates and progressions in mind. I dont know your budget, but some coilovers would benefit you in so many ways.



Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Monday, June 17, 2013 5:52 PM
I completely understand of the variable rate springs of today. These were not. The end that mates with the rotator might have been as they were wound a little different and ended up as a square end to fit flat against the rotators. The lower end that fits up with the strut is wound tangential. This is considered to be the only spring end that is OK to trim.

Your responses are taken in respect and concern. I did leave messages with Eibach and Hotchkis to confirm my modifications to these springs. My intention is to get custom springs done, but I do need to get to a scale and weigh in the front and rear first. I also looked into coil-overs. Could not find anything to fit the Impala spindles. There isn't many suppliers who have the technical knowledge to help much either, just part to application sellers.

PS If I wasn't going the stock sleeper look, I would have chosen your hood style. very cool



Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Monday, June 17, 2013 5:52 PM
Cutting a variable rate spring isn't the end of the world, it in no way weakens the spring as a whole if it is done properly, maybe your thinking about heating coil springs???

Only issue you run into is if you cut them to the point where you are close to coil bind, in which case you are overworking the spring steel and they can snap.

That all being said, this guy is V8 RWD swapping a Cavalier....I'm pretty sure he knows what he is doing Vince.






Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Monday, June 17, 2013 6:04 PM
newt wrote:

Cutting a variable rate spring isn't the end of the world, it in no way weakens the spring as a whole if it is done properly, maybe your thinking about heating coil springs???

Only issue you run into is if you cut them to the point where you are close to coil bind, in which case you are overworking the spring steel and they can snap.

That all being said, this guy is V8 RWD swapping a Cavalier....I'm pretty sure he knows what he is doing Vince.


Thanks newt. You beat me to it. The real danger is cutting it wrong and having it slip off the perch. Cutting a variable spring pretty much makes it a linear spring.

But I digress. I'm in for more fabrication goodness.



Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Monday, June 17, 2013 6:24 PM
Thanks Guys,
This one of the reasons why I joined. Love the debates. I don't have many car guys than can help with these type of in depth topics.
Cheers



Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Monday, June 17, 2013 7:06 PM
My concern was with coil bind only because of the added weight of the motor over what it replaced. But based upon pics, it does sit farther back so maybe that spreads the load out better?

I wasn't thinking of heating, it was the cutting. Just bad ju ju to me is all. If his springs are different then I hope they work. Oh there is coilovers lol... but lets just say they cost more than I would ever want to spend on a cavalier! Last I saw it was around $2500 for coilovers.... for that price you could make and mount your own suspension.

Were there any inside pics of the driveshaft tunnel and what not?



Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Monday, June 17, 2013 10:46 PM
I have had cut sprigs for a year. I believe part of it is driver error
Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:45 AM
Four times I tried to post with some pics. When I hit post I get booted right out of this site - WTF??



Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:04 AM
Thats weird... browser issue?



Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:33 AM
6th try,

The springs have about 1" of space between the coils. With 5 coils left @ 1/2" diameter, this means there is no less than 3-1/2 of travel left. There is about 1-1/2" before full compression into the bump stops of the struts. I don't foresee coil binding happening.
The rear was easy. The J-Body struts were too long and I believed the rod diameter and valves would be too light to handle the forces from the torque and rebound of the 10 bolt. I used Volvo wagon struts. Designed for differential and a bit more weight. Same configuration as the J-Body but larger rod and shorter as well. The J-body spring was too long. But this spring is Sq at the top and pigtailed at the bottom. So I used springs from a third gen Canaro. Exact same spring, but shorter and have a bit more rate. They seem to be perfect so far. And if I would like a bit lower, the stores have what I need.

As requested, pics of the firewall and tunnel. I used 16 ga metal. The firewall and tunnel are contributing to the structure's integrity. The dash support was also reinforced and is now bolted to the top of the transmission tunnel where it meets the firewall. This past weekend, after I finished fighting with the front suspension, I added weight to simulate things like glass, interior, fuel, etc. I measured the rear portion of the lower door gap - was .054". that's just under a 1/16". this was done before any modifications with .117" - just under 1/8" movement. I realize road bumps would no doubt be worse. This was just a comparison to see the difference. In addition there are sub frame connectors - .125"x 2"x 2"




https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/5YTDyqFLC5ff1ps6HXi80VQCV8xk82pTXWVrms66It4=s140



Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:39 AM
This pic didn't make it




Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:21 AM
It maybe better to upload the pics to photobucket and drop the links on to your posts.

At least your pics will be bigger that way




Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:46 AM
Blwn LD9 wrote:

It maybe better to upload the pics to photobucket and drop the links on to your posts.

At least your pics will be bigger that way


What he said. We need to see bigger pics of that beast!

Forward the high res pics to me and I'll post them for you!






Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Tuesday, June 18, 2013 8:13 AM
This thread is all kinds of awesome - I just wish the pics were full size!

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Tuesday, June 18, 2013 8:59 AM
Please excuse my ignorance on modern technology.
It would seem the pics from my camera are small. and the I-phone are a bit better.. Willing to learn though......

Tony, where would you like me to forward pics?



Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:47 AM


Test with photobucket.com



Re: Project V8 Z24 - Update
Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:01 AM


Test with adjustment on camera



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