has anybody built BUILT a ld9? - Page 3 - Performance Forum

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Re: has anybody built BUILT a ld9?
Wednesday, July 31, 2013 11:14 AM
Lol well how much Damn it haha and I didn't even think about where there valve sits in reference to the intake port I ass just thinking of getting the most air in the head since I'm going to be boosting what cr are your pistons? And nobody is gonna talk me outta running a blower trust me

I Love My J ♡

Re: has anybody built BUILT a ld9?
Wednesday, July 31, 2013 2:28 PM
SweetnessGT wrote:
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:
Whalesac wrote:Head flow is the biggest obstacle and is what needs the most attention with these engines.


ding ding ding! we have a winner!


Take it from me - when you overport the head on this engine it becomes a dog below 3000 rpm.

As much as my car comes to life in stupid ways at around 3000 rpm it is completely useless below that... I know that the 7.9 static compression ratio destroyed what bottom end I had left. I actually had to crank up my off-idle timing by 6 degrees just to get the car to respond decently from a dead stop.

Even when N.A with secret cams this head responded beautifully in the top end but I actually lost time in the 1/4 mile. It's the reason I ended up going boost, the car was such a disappointment N/A. There's pictures floating around of the size of the ports but it's 1/8" OVER gasket match. I'm actually making custom gaskets in a week or two and porting my new turbo manifold to match the head - I have a lot of meat to take out of the flange.

Cody - as mentioned these blocks can take a decent overbore but not whats required to increase the displacement to 2.6L. The oil pump swap is a must and as much as my JBP pump has done the trick it's my one real regret with this engine - not going with the 2.3 pump swap.

The oil pump gears were hardened due to Mike Karas shattering his above 7000 rpm - my engine was built for an 8000 rpm redline with solid lifters and custom springs. I didn't want to risk the gears coming apart at high RPM's like what Mike had experienced. I have safely brought it up to 8000 rpm quite a few times with Darren in the car to experience it... now that I know a lot more about the oil pump design on the LD9 I'm wary to do it very often due to cavitating the oil... a different gear in my pump isn't going to overcome its poor design in this regard. While the top end can take it as well as the rotating assembly I worry about the oil, now.

John/Brad - I had a pretty complete list up on the .org for quite a few years... let me know what questions you may have. Brad - a lot of the parts I mentioned you've known about for 7+ years, don't act surprised. How long have you asked me about that custom crank as well as the thermal coatings that were applied to the head and pistons so I could run a bit leaner? What about the custom bearings I had made when I blew the first engine up? You were the first person I talked to about that after I came to grips I grenaded a $10,000 engine... haha.

If i were to do it again I'd make 3 changes:

- Different turbo. (As much as I love the Borg my compressor map shows me it's going to fall short of my original goal.)
- 2.3 pump swap
- Higher SCR: the car was built for 28-30 PSI on PUMP gas (which I now know my turbo cannot support) and I dramatically underestimated the effect of such a low SCR for regular street driving.


Cody - you mentioned a TVS blower on the LD9... I personally wouldn't go any route where I can guarantee I can cool the intake charge. This is why I settled on a G-LADER supercharger for my side project... though they are known to be unreliable if you don't care for them and good for only 300 hp CFM flow. (Perfect for what I have in mind, though.) If you're going to do a built I'd suggest planning it around a turbocharger from the get-go.

-Chris-


Chris you are on a factory oiling system, with a JBP oil pump? I thought you were 2.3 oiling. Another thing I did not know. But I like.



FU Tuning



Re: has anybody built BUILT a ld9?
Thursday, August 01, 2013 10:48 AM
John,

I wish I had gone 2.3 pump but at the time couldn't find the parts and Mev was leery to do that swap. (He didn't know how.)

Instead the block was hot tanked and all galleys were chamfered. A ported JBP pump with a different gear than he normally sells was installed to increase volume, the neutral balance shafts were installed, and I got a new set of oil pump & balance shaft drive gears that were shot peened to withstand high RPM.

On my autometer oil pressure gauge and verified with a separate Snap-ON gauge there is no difference in pressure at idle compared to stock - it still idles at 10 psi give or take when warmed up. at 3500 rpm it's at 35 psi and at 4500 rpm it's at 40 psi. It doesn't get much higher than that under warm load, though. My stock LD9 setups have always idled at 9-11 psi and hit 25 psi TOPS under load when the oil is warmed up... so it's a pressure improvement that's for sure. We were more concerned with volume, though... hence opening up the galleys and modifying the pump.

A block was actually sectioned to inspect the oil galleys on the LD9 so that mine could be properly chamfered... the girdle area stock is horrible which explains some bearing issues on LD9's.

The oil pump was also tapped for coolers hence the need for extra volume.

Due to the solid lifters the car ALWAYS sounds like a diesel on cold startup for the first 30 seconds, the heavy clacking eventually subsides.

As I mentioned - a few years after the engine was built I researched the oil pump gear ratio to the crank and did some reading from GM and realized the ratio that the oil pump spins at when the engine is above 7000 rpm... no matter what changes I made the LD9 oil pump spins at such a high level that oil cavitation is a big threat. I have an engine that can spin safely to 8000 rpm with an oil pump that can turn my oil to foam at redline.... and now I wish I'd gone 2.3 with the balance shaft delete and windage tray. I'd even have room for a crank scraper with that setup!

Ah well... I'm just excited to hear it run again someday soon.

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: has anybody built BUILT a ld9?
Thursday, August 01, 2013 3:19 PM
Interesting information.

My car doesn't get below 20 psi at idle, but that is getting the reading from the block not the head. Cruising it doesn't go below 50 psi.

I myself would rather make all my power below 7k. I don't want to rev above that if I can make the power that I want.


Your build is just another that proves that the stock oiling system can make good power.

I'm not saying in no way that there isn't gains to be had with a 2.3 oiling swap, just it can be done without.

I didn't know you were on solid lifters either.



FU Tuning



Re: has anybody built BUILT a ld9?
Thursday, August 01, 2013 3:51 PM
I'm definitely going 2.3 oiling I want the hp and don't wanna take the risk of screwing up a lot of money lol

I Love My J ♡
Re: has anybody built BUILT a ld9?
Thursday, August 01, 2013 4:32 PM
Addicted to meth wrote:Interesting information.

My car doesn't get below 20 psi at idle, but that is getting the reading from the block not the head. Cruising it doesn't go below 50 psi.

I myself would rather make all my power below 7k. I don't want to rev above that if I can make the power that I want.


Your build is just another that proves that the stock oiling system can make good power.

I'm not saying in no way that there isn't gains to be had with a 2.3 oiling swap, just it can be done without.

I didn't know you were on solid lifters either.


well, as far as his "system" being stock, sure... but thats only because it uses the pump aparatus LOL. everything else was modified. so.. technically, i dont see how you could claim his system to be anything near stock. stock design in mind, yes.. but everything has been massaged. and look at it in comparison... most 2.3 systems in ld9's put out about 60-75psi when warmed up. and in a performance engine, as the saying goes, ten psi for every 1000 rpm is what you should shoot for.

chris, im sure your's will live for years though. not knocking it one bit. you are turboed. keep it lower in the rpm's and turn up the boost to make the power.

id like to hear more about the solid lifters, actually... did mev use a vw style bucket with a long solid stem in the center or did he use longer valves to make up the difference? and how was lash adjusted? ive never seen any windows in your cam towers.. and lastly.. are you sure they are "solid" or are they possibly just a semi-solid half hydraulic hybrid?

your crank, chris.. did you ever have it weighed? im curious as to what its final weight was. did they put a stock style trigger wheel on it or are you using an external wheel? did you ever take any pics? ive seen pics of a forged crank on JBP for a supposed ld9 before.. could that one possibly be yours?



RIP silver car. You will be missed.
Re: has anybody built BUILT a ld9?
Thursday, August 01, 2013 4:40 PM
Stock style oil system. Ok?


I plan to work the oil passages, and a melling oil pump.


Also meant to say earlier as Chris did, psi is less important as flow is more important.



FU Tuning



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