05 swap questions - Performance Forum

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05 swap questions
Thursday, December 01, 2016 9:09 AM
OK, so I have a 2005 LS automatic. (with the 2.2)

So far I've done:
full AEM cold long-ram intake (and air / map sensors)
full exhaust (minus headers) + 02 sensors

So, nothing crazy yet... But I see a ton of swaps and other stuff around here and on the internet, but everything is for 99-04.

I haven't really seen any mods for the 05.

So, I'm curious what part swaps can I do on my car?
I don't want to do an engine swap, as I barely have 94k on it, and is in really good shape...

I just want some power gains...
I plan on doing the headers in spring, along with the suspension.

Re: 05 swap questions
Friday, December 02, 2016 6:29 PM
05 is the same as well. What "swap" are you wanting to do?
Re: 05 swap questions
Sunday, December 04, 2016 7:13 PM
Philly D wrote:

05 is the same as well. What "swap" are you wanting to do?






I meant swaps, in reference to parts...

Cam swap, throttle body, etc...

Like I said, engine is in great condition with barely 95k on it.

Just looking for some gains here and there, without doing the whole entire engine... Ya know?
Re: 05 swap questions
Tuesday, December 06, 2016 3:43 PM
2.4 ecotec intake manifold is a common swap. That and a tune.
Re: 05 swap questions
Wednesday, December 07, 2016 7:50 PM
swap a supercharger or saab turbo...
Re: 05 swap questions
Wednesday, December 07, 2016 8:50 PM
Philly D wrote:

swap a supercharger or saab turbo...


I agree with this. I'm doing a Saab turbo swap to my 2003 sunfire. Same swap would work on your cavi.
Re: 05 swap questions
Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:13 PM
that'll be down the road / some time in summer.
and will likely go with the turbo.

tho I've heard the lifters/springs are weak and dont handle turbo very well...???

im totally new to Cavvi's in general, so i apologize if i ask n00b questions...
Re: 05 swap questions
Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:16 PM
lookin for simple stuff i can do over the winter... (@!#$ i can have done in a day) ...as it's my daily driver.

which was why i inquired about TB's and such...

In spring, i already have:
- lowering springs
- new struts/shocks
- sway links
- headers

so yeah.. if i do a turbo, ill have to get new headers and such... but that'll be when i can spent all day outside and not freeze my ass off!
Re: 05 swap questions
Thursday, December 08, 2016 8:44 PM
Stock springs don't do well in higher rpm's. Boost pressure has nothing to do with valve spring strength. Springs are designed to keep a certain valve pressure against the finger followers or rocker arms. If the RPM of the engine is too high, or if the valve is too heavy, it causes the valve to stay open longer than it should. In other words it may not close completely before its time to open again. This could spell doom to an interference engine. Valve could hit piston. Turbos do not increase RPM, so can't cause spring failure.

Strut tower braces are easy, sway links are easy, ceramic pads, slotted rotors are easy enough. Wheels and tires. How much money are you wanting to spend?
Re: 05 swap questions
Friday, December 09, 2016 3:11 AM
Jason Gibbs wrote:

Stock springs don't do well in higher rpm's.

True.

Jason Gibbs wrote:

Boost pressure has nothing to do with valve spring strength.

False. Higher boost pressures will force the valve open and will require a stronger valve spring to help close the valve properly. Think of opening an umbrella in a wind storm.

Jason Gibbs wrote:

Springs are designed to keep a certain valve pressure against the finger followers or rocker arms. If the RPM of the engine is too high, or if the valve is too heavy, it causes the valve to stay open longer than it should. In other words it may not close completely before its time to open again. This could spell doom to an interference engine. Valve could hit piston. Turbos do not increase RPM, so can't cause spring failure.

Close. Keeping pressure against the cam followers or rocker arms with the valves/springs will cause the valves to not fully close. Which leads to loss of power/efficiency and engine damage. The lash adjusters function is to what you are talking about.







Re: 05 swap questions
Friday, December 09, 2016 2:20 PM
Although I will admit to having generalized and that I was wrong to do that, I don't see that the boost will have a detrimental effect on the valvetrain for this build. Addicted to meth has a 405hp Cavalier bone-stock L61. To me that sounds like a pretty high limit on an OEM engine, but no issues with valve float. And if we're talking swapping parts to make power, we're going on the cheap anyway and there's no way boost is going to even get close to that right now. So generally speaking? Yes I was wrong. For this build? I don't think we're close to the limit.

I'll rephrase that the spring is intended to close the valve. The HLA's regulate the necessary pressure (or absence of pressure) between the finger followers and the camshaft. I stand corrected.

Matt Weber wrote:

Just looking for some gains here and there, without doing the whole entire engine... Ya know?


Honestly, if you're going to put a turbo on, I would just wait and do that all at once, unless you've got the money to put on a header and can't wait until summer. How big is your exhaust pipe?

Re: 05 swap questions
Friday, December 09, 2016 7:00 PM
So far, I have:

- full long-ram AEM cold air intake (filter in fender)
- cool-tape wrapped fuel lines
- General GMax A/S-2 tires
- moog sway links
- full 2.5 exhaust (from header) (with stock header)
- MagnaFlow cat + resonator delete
- Borla ProXS muffler

- running 89 octane (mid-grade)

Not much, but it's a start....
Re: 05 swap questions
Friday, December 09, 2016 7:04 PM
Was looking at some PaceSetter headers online...
Only 120 bucks, so might do that.

Full suspension upgrade, come spring.. (springs & struts/shocks)
I don't have a garage & don't want to be outside freezing my ass off.
Re: 05 swap questions
Friday, December 09, 2016 7:29 PM
Why waste your money on a header when you want a turbo. Now if you supercharged the car, it can be done in a day and also can use the header. If your set on turbo, then save your cash.
Re: 05 swap questions
Friday, December 09, 2016 8:39 PM
Philly D wrote:

Why waste your money on a header when you want a turbo. Now if you supercharged the car, it can be done in a day and also can use the header. If your set on turbo, then save your cash.


Will likely do the SuperCharger once I can find one.

I've also been reading swapping to the 2.4 intake-mani is good, but suffers low-end loss... Which sucks...

Can anyone verify if this is worth it or not?
Re: 05 swap questions
Saturday, December 10, 2016 10:43 AM
As I don't know much about either..

What's my safer bet of turbo VS super?

I mean safer in terms of maintenance, reliability & wear on the engine.

Not so much worried about money, as I am wear against the engine.
Re: 05 swap questions
Saturday, December 10, 2016 11:30 AM
Supercharger hands down.


Cobalt buy and sell on Facebook always has deals, or cobaltss.net. Best bet is to read this: http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=40&i=183453&t=183438
Re: 05 swap questions
Saturday, December 10, 2016 12:15 PM
At this point, with a 2.5" exhaust and hi flow cat, you've already suffered in the low end. I'm confused about resonator delete. You don't have one, unless you're referring to the intake baffle.

It sound like your tech savvy isn't up to speed. You mentioned you want a turbo and then said you wanted a supercharger. Yes both are doable, but I doubt that's what you want. You're concerned about low end loss when you've already slapped higher flowing stuff on, and made no regard for fast flowing stuff. No offense, but the build appears to be a little scattered. If you want power gains now, and money isn't an object, by all means get a header and finish the job you started on the exhaust. Also get the 2.4 Mani. As for torque, the best you can do is a remap on the PCM, but it won't properly compensate for lack of charge velocity, and you'lol likely go through spark plugs quickly. You'll need forced air at this point to make up for low end velocity. If you're going to put on a turbo, forget the header. Wait. If you're going for a supercharger, header will be good now.

Got any dyno numbers?

There is some math involved that can really help you out with headwork, which will include optimizing exhaust and intake size (length and width) around headflow. In my honest opinion doing exhaust and intake first is doing it backwards, but people prefer sound over science I guess (even though science results in better sound). *shrugs* For sure, to make the best of your build, a good tune will help.
Re: 05 swap questions
Sunday, December 11, 2016 12:46 AM
@Philly - thanks for the heads up. Will deff check it out.

@Jason - no, there was a resonator... Stock GM part.
The car came from Michigan, which has semi-tight emission laws, so it was loaded with a restricted intake, and exhaust system.
I'm trying to build it up a bit, where I can, while learning along the way... So I apologize if I can't keep up with you.

So, with what was stated above, going super is less engine wear, so will likely go that route, over the turbo.

Also, no, I've never dyno'd, or tuned or anything else, so I have no numbers or info to put up...nor do I know what PCM is.

Once I get some more work done, I'll do a dyno.

... Like I said, I'm still learning, so I'm sorry for any n00b things I might do or say...
Re: 05 swap questions
Sunday, December 11, 2016 11:47 AM
For educational purposes see about getting a dyno soon if you can. This way you can see how what you do to your car changes your power. Just a thought. I know it can get spendy.
Re: 05 swap questions
Sunday, December 11, 2016 5:48 PM
Ok, so I made up my mind... Going super, over the turbo.

Now I have a few other questions.

1 - I want the 2.4 intake...
What year/model of the cobalt does it need to come from?
And do I need the EGR with it?

2 - with the super-charger..
What car year/model does it need to come from?
Also, would it be easier to buy a kit, or dig online for a used one?

Also, should I upgrade the TB with the intake, or is my stock one fine?

Re: 05 swap questions
Sunday, December 11, 2016 6:28 PM
There is a post in the boost forum that'll answer all of your supercharger related questions.




Re: 05 swap questions
Monday, December 12, 2016 7:04 PM
OK thank you...

What about the intake tho?
Re: 05 swap questions
Monday, December 12, 2016 11:44 PM
The 2.4 intake isn't going to work for the supercharger. You need the supercharger manifold. I made my recommendation based on high horsepower natural aspiration and/or turbo builds. If you do a search you'll see the huge difference between the supercharger and 2.4 ecotec manifolds.
Re: 05 swap questions
Tuesday, December 13, 2016 6:38 PM
Jason Gibbs wrote:

The 2.4 intake isn't going to work for the supercharger. You need the supercharger manifold. I made my recommendation based on high horsepower natural aspiration and/or turbo builds. If you do a search you'll see the huge difference between the supercharger and 2.4 ecotec manifolds.


Right on. Thanks for the heads up.

Once spring gets here, I'm going to do everything all at once, I'm getting questions answered now, so I can order parts & everything else I need.. Then once it starts getting warm again, I can go play.

For now, I'm going to do the headers, and get all my maintenance work done over the winter, that way I have zero issues, come spring.
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