AWD Cavalier??? - Page 2 - Performance Forum

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Re: AWD Cavalier???
Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:42 PM
a lot of negative comments, I very much want to find out a way to do this, the way I see it, is ANYTHING can be done to ANYTHING, I have seen many many crazy creations, and if you can throw a 355 rocket motor and rear wheels drive in a j body, why not awd, also, while thinking about the 1st gen z-24, with a 3.1, then think about the Pontiac 6000 ste awd, these cars are not too different, ive heard of an awd cavi, but cant wait to see one, I found a wackjob backyard mechanic who has a 440 snowmobile motor mounted to a hoverround power chair, he wants to swap out all drivetrain from an older Subaru legacy 2.2, and has been looking into for awhile now and really thinks he'll be able to do it this coming spring, if he can pull it off he will gain an instant customer

Re: AWD Cavalier???
Sunday, January 12, 2014 4:51 PM
Good luck with backyard voodoo master.....




Re: AWD Cavalier???
Monday, January 13, 2014 8:43 AM
Ryan Brooks wrote:

a lot of negative comments, I very much want to find out a way to do this, the way I see it, is ANYTHING can be done to ANYTHING, I have seen many many crazy creations, and if you can throw a 355 rocket motor and rear wheels drive in a j body, why not awd, also, while thinking about the 1st gen z-24, with a 3.1, then think about the Pontiac 6000 ste awd, these cars are not too different, ive heard of an awd cavi, but cant wait to see one, I found a wackjob backyard mechanic who has a 440 snowmobile motor mounted to a hoverround power chair, he wants to swap out all drivetrain from an older Subaru legacy 2.2, and has been looking into for awhile now and really thinks he'll be able to do it this coming spring, if he can pull it off he will gain an instant customer
LOL. Good job digging up this old ass thread and skipping the one that recently had real discussions.

Simple answer? It can be done, and not that difficult. However, no one has yet actually picked up the parts to do it and made it happen.






Re: AWD Cavalier???
Monday, January 13, 2014 11:53 AM
blackbirdracing wrote:

You bumped a 4 year old thread to add that?


I seriously laughed loudly at me desk for that one. If YOU WANT ALL WHEEL DRIVE, YOU JUST DON'T WANT A CAVALIER. Go buy something that is already awd and pump it up. why do we attempt such stupid swaps?
Re: AWD Cavalier???
Monday, January 13, 2014 7:54 PM
There is no 355 rocket and no sbc is a rocket a olds 350 rocket is a real engine witch was a pig so get your @!#$ straight. Back yard junk @!#$ stupid swaps like a sled engine on a motorized wheel chair. Spend all the effort made to post that comment on @!#$ that matters like real research and real engines in real cars insted of some hacked up inbred junk that makes a cool bang for ten seconds. A sbc 350 bored .30 over is a 355


I Love My J ♡
Re: AWD Cavalier???
Tuesday, January 14, 2014 11:47 AM
Welcome to jbody.org

This is what you get here. Everyone is a smart ass. Go to a Honda site and you will find more "innovation" minded people there. Your not gonnna get alot of help from the active people on here.


GMR has got nothing on this
Re: AWD Cavalier???
Tuesday, January 14, 2014 3:03 PM
Post a new post or something dont dig a post from 2008 up or post stuff about engines that dont exsist or about sled powerd wheel chairs come on man lol a awd j would be sweet but if were gonna talk bout it lets be serious and not dig @!#$ up from 2008 or post irrelevant crap lets have a serious conversation about the topic


I Love My J ♡
Re: AWD Cavalier???
Tuesday, January 14, 2014 3:39 PM
If you really want to build something and have the skill to measure, cut, weld and do some research I'm sure something couod be acomplished with some homework. Plus if There was a guide to swapping in an awd setup chances are it would be a sticky on the top of the page.....and you would just scroll past it and ask the same question anyway.




Re: AWD Cavalier???
Tuesday, January 14, 2014 3:43 PM
JUCNBST wrote:

If you really want to build something and have the skill to measure, cut, weld and do some research I'm sure something couod be acomplished with some homework. Plus if There was a guide to swapping in an awd setup chances are it would be a sticky on the top of the page.....and you would just scroll past it and ask the same question anyway.
exactly!!!!


I Love My J ♡
Re: AWD Cavalier???
Wednesday, January 15, 2014 6:43 AM
DOHC_tuner wrote:

Welcome to jbody.org

This is what you get here. Everyone is a smart ass. Go to a Honda site and you will find more "innovation" minded people there. Your not gonnna get alot of help from the active people on here.
No, what you get here is people too lazy to look around and do research. Lots of people join, and post questions that are alread answered in the FAQ stickies, or don't fully look around for the answers. There is a thread in the 3rd gen forum with a lot of discussion about doing an AWD setup. Anyone willing to do a bit of work themselves will get help. If you don't see that, then you're among the ones I place in the group of lazy people looking for spoon-fed answers. And the real annoying part is that those people are the ones that will ask all these crazy questions, but never do it, even if there was a how-to posted. That's why you get the kind of replies to these threads that you do, because dreamers fill up the forum with questions so that the real discussion threads get lost among them. It pisses off the real enthusiasts who are actually researching and building things.





Re: AWD Cavalier???
Wednesday, January 15, 2014 8:22 AM
Mr. Quick wrote:

DOHC_tuner wrote:

Welcome to jbody.org

This is what you get here. Everyone is a smart ass. Go to a Honda site and you will find more "innovation" minded people there. Your not gonnna get alot of help from the active people on here.
No, what you get here is people too lazy to look around and do research. Lots of people join, and post questions that are alread answered in the FAQ stickies, or don't fully look around for the answers. There is a thread in the 3rd gen forum with a lot of discussion about doing an AWD setup. Anyone willing to do a bit of work themselves will get help. If you don't see that, then you're among the ones I place in the group of lazy people looking for spoon-fed answers. And the real annoying part is that those people are the ones that will ask all these crazy questions, but never do it, even if there was a how-to posted. That's why you get the kind of replies to these threads that you do, because dreamers fill up the forum with questions so that the real discussion threads get lost among them. It pisses off the real enthusiasts who are actually researching and building things.


This is frustrating, I spend hours sometimes trying to find something so simple that I know must have been asked before. I have been on other forums before though and Jbody is really lacking stickies, there is some good write ups on this site that I spend a good amount of time searching for because I know if I ask it, I will just get these "smart ass" replies. There is also good write ups that are way outdated and no longer have working pictures. Some of the senior members that have been here 5-10+ years, don't realize that these "good" write ups are now pretty much useless without pictures. Some of these write ups also have a subject that is totally unrelated to what you are searching for as well making them near impossible to find. I admit, some of these Noobs are lazy but so are the mods on this site, there is a lot of info on this site but it requires more than it should to find. This is why you get these dumb ass questions.
I also just search "AWD" for the hell of it and of the 45 results, I don't see any good discussions on one, just threads like this one, or people taking about wrx's or dsm's, etc... I do remember reading a thread way back about someone who actually did do a awd swap with a dsm drivetrain I believe, however, I think the thread title was something that no one would search for. This thread is very old but the OP could of been serious, would he of ever done a swap? probably not. I think 99% of the people who would ask about this swap, would never have the skills or money to do such a swap, If they did, they would probably just buy a car that already has a AWD platform. The small percentage of guys who don't mid wasting money, don't usually ask how to do a AWD swap, they start a progress thread....but I do remember a RWD thread that started like this one, everyone with smart ass comments, then the OP started posting pictures and it was real... everyone stopped bashing and started being more interested....

End of long rant....





2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires
2005 Mazda 3 GS Auto- Wifes car
2006 Cobalt SS/SC - Intake, 2.5" Exhaust, GMPP Brakes, Solid Mounts, Ported S/C - Sold
1991 GMC Sierra - Lifted on 38.5" Swampers, Too much to list off. For Sale

Re: AWD Cavalier???
Wednesday, January 15, 2014 3:13 PM
Took me all of 5 minutes to find this. Thread that Mr. Quick was most likely talking about.






Re: AWD Cavalier???
Wednesday, January 15, 2014 4:58 PM
Couldnt of said it better mr.quick!



I Love My J ♡
Re: AWD Cavalier???
Wednesday, January 15, 2014 7:56 PM
JUCNBST wrote:

Took me all of 5 minutes to find this. Thread that Mr. Quick was most likely talking about.


I just searched and browsed through the titles, nothing "looked" like an actual build thread, which I can't remember but thought there was one on this site. The AWD topic is probably not the best example. But like 2.2 eco swap in a 00-02, nothing but threads with comments use the search button, found one good write up but pics don't work. And if you change keywords around, like to L61 swap, you can find more but still useless threads. Go over to ecotecforums and there's stickies and how to sections, etc... A guy could take a month off work and spend all day reading through all the info on that site. And stereo install on 00+ j bodys, not many people know about the class 2 system, I know I found out the hard way, there is a sticky on the class 2 system but some guys are doing there first stereo install and still learning and there is no sticky on one? And there's a guy that just recently made a nice write up, will it get stickied, I doubt it. No sticky on how to take apart the damn dash, remove door panels. There's a good write up on neon coil swap but it's not stickied, easy to find though, but try searching for 2.2 coil swap. Then simple stuff that most of us don't need a how to but someone new coming along that wants to learn how to do new things, like how to do oil change, how to change spark plugs, how to change struts/shocks, how to change brakes, clutch, etc....There is write ups but there are near impossible to find. You go to other car forums and there's like 10-20+ stickies for every sub category and/or a how to section. The next car I buy, I think I will be looking at the forums for that car and making sure its nothing like this one.


2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires
2005 Mazda 3 GS Auto- Wifes car
2006 Cobalt SS/SC - Intake, 2.5" Exhaust, GMPP Brakes, Solid Mounts, Ported S/C - Sold
1991 GMC Sierra - Lifted on 38.5" Swampers, Too much to list off. For Sale
Re: AWD Cavalier???
Thursday, January 16, 2014 4:32 AM
Rick wrote:

JUCNBST wrote:

Took me all of 5 minutes to find this. Thread that Mr. Quick was most likely talking about.


I just searched and browsed through the titles, nothing "looked" like an actual build thread, which I can't remember but thought there was one on this site. The AWD topic is probably not the best example. But like 2.2 eco swap in a 00-02, nothing but threads with comments use the search button, found one good write up but pics don't work. And if you change keywords around, like to L61 swap, you can find more but still useless threads. Go over to ecotecforums and there's stickies and how to sections, etc... A guy could take a month off work and spend all day reading through all the info on that site. And stereo install on 00+ j bodys, not many people know about the class 2 system, I know I found out the hard way, there is a sticky on the class 2 system but some guys are doing there first stereo install and still learning and there is no sticky on one? And there's a guy that just recently made a nice write up, will it get stickied, I doubt it. No sticky on how to take apart the damn dash, remove door panels. There's a good write up on neon coil swap but it's not stickied, easy to find though, but try searching for 2.2 coil swap. Then simple stuff that most of us don't need a how to but someone new coming along that wants to learn how to do new things, like how to do oil change, how to change spark plugs, how to change struts/shocks, how to change brakes, clutch, etc....There is write ups but there are near impossible to find. You go to other car forums and there's like 10-20+ stickies for every sub category and/or a how to section. The next car I buy, I think I will be looking at the forums for that car and making sure its nothing like this one.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. You have to sift through tons of useless threads to find the good one because people keep starting new ones instead of searching. The threads with true intelligent discussions get lost in the shuffle. There are plenty of guys around here who are willing to help someone who doesn't just start a new thread asking if they can do something. The problem is that too many people on this forum are lazy and cheap. That, unfortunately, has a lot to do with the fact that these cars are now a dime a dozen, so a lot of people pick them up cheap and easy, want to mod them cheap and easy, and don't want to bother researching anything for themselves.

Believe me, I agree with you that there is too much clutter on here. However, making things a sticky hasn't solved the problem either. There's a great suspension FAQ sticky, but search "lowering on stock struts" or "cutting springs" and you'll start to get an idea of the problem.





Re: AWD Cavalier???
Thursday, January 16, 2014 6:37 AM
What's everyone's obsession with AWD?



Re: AWD Cavalier???
Thursday, January 16, 2014 7:15 AM

March 2013 on highway 2 south of Edmonton, over 100 car pile up








This is why I would want AWD, this is the kind of weather we get 6-8 months of the year, although this year we have been having strange weather. Minus 30 Celsius one day then plus 8 C yesterday with 120km/h winds, today is plus 6 C, no wind, pot holes and icey roads everywhere. Also if I did have an AWD, it would have studded winter tires like my other cars. If you look in the first picture, there is a lot of AWD cars and 4x4 trucks in the ditch too....





2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires
2005 Mazda 3 GS Auto- Wifes car
2006 Cobalt SS/SC - Intake, 2.5" Exhaust, GMPP Brakes, Solid Mounts, Ported S/C - Sold
1991 GMC Sierra - Lifted on 38.5" Swampers, Too much to list off. For Sale
Re: AWD Cavalier???
Thursday, January 16, 2014 7:29 AM
To be fair though people drive that road like a$$holes.

I dont hink ive ever saw a person driving for the conditions in Alberta. But that is a crazy accident.
Re: AWD Cavalier???
Thursday, January 16, 2014 8:44 AM
Philly D wrote:

To be fair though people drive that road like a$$holes.

I dont hink ive ever saw a person driving for the conditions in Alberta. But that is a crazy accident.


That is true, not saying it is all but a good majority are people in AWD car/suv's or 4x4 trucks, they have lots of traction accelerating then think they are invincible until they have to turn or stop. The only advantage AWD/4x4 has over my car with winter tires is plowing through sloppy residential roads or accelerating on black ice in an intersection, etc. Even with my winter tires, I've slip and slide a little but I've driven cars with all seasons in icey conditions and they were absolute crap. I'd say a good 50-75% of accidents of vehicles I see upside down in the ditch are either a truck or AWD car/suv.




2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires
2005 Mazda 3 GS Auto- Wifes car
2006 Cobalt SS/SC - Intake, 2.5" Exhaust, GMPP Brakes, Solid Mounts, Ported S/C - Sold
1991 GMC Sierra - Lifted on 38.5" Swampers, Too much to list off. For Sale
Re: AWD Cavalier???
Thursday, January 16, 2014 3:46 PM
I agree that the stickies need updating and there are alot of threads that are hard to search for. Have you looked through the Library?







Re: AWD Cavalier???
Thursday, January 16, 2014 6:33 PM
I've looked through there before but it's one of those things you sometimes forget about, some good info in there but most of the time people looking through forums and don't think to look there.


2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires
2005 Mazda 3 GS Auto- Wifes car
2006 Cobalt SS/SC - Intake, 2.5" Exhaust, GMPP Brakes, Solid Mounts, Ported S/C - Sold
1991 GMC Sierra - Lifted on 38.5" Swampers, Too much to list off. For Sale

Re: AWD Cavalier???
Thursday, January 16, 2014 7:15 PM
I guess the point I was going to make is that the Versa-trak AWD systems that GM used (and the ones that are the most viable for swapping into a Cavalier) don't operate like AWD does on a Subaru or an Evo. Versa-trak operates like a normal FWD vehicle until it detects wheel slippage in which case it sends power to the rear to add traction then biases the power left or right depending on which rear wheel is slipping or gripping. Its nothing like the full-time AWD you get on a Subaru.

So really its a pointless swap if youre doing it in the interest of being Johnny Racecar and trying to help your tack times or look like a badass doing AWD launches. For that to work you would have to make some modifications to rear diff mechanism to essentially lock it in all of the time, and without looking at one torn apart its really a crap-shoot as to whether it can be done. I've seen it done with CRV rear diffs in AWD swapped Civic's, but the CRV diff uses a viscous lock sort of like a Limited Slip Differential. As far as I can tell Versa-trak uses some electronically controlled Gerotor pumps to side shift fluid in the diff, which somehow locks and biases the axles.

I could see a purpose if youre doing it purely in the interest of having traction in the winter, but do you really love your Cavalier enough to rip everything apart and spend $10k to be moderately better in the snow in a car with terrible ground clearance.

So I refer back to my previous statement: Whats everyone's obsession with AWD?



Re: AWD Cavalier???
Friday, January 17, 2014 7:02 AM
To be cool like Ken Block......




I think most people just cant afford a car with a AWD platform like the STI or EVO, etc but they want to make their cheap cavalier like one and they want to do it for cheap as well. If this versatrac was a cheap, direct bolt in or minor mods, I may be interested for better winter traction but all in all, Id rather just put the money towards something that has an AWD platform already. With proper tires for the season, my car does fine, no need for AWD, it would be nice in some situations but not needed. And like you said for the johnny race car guys, If a guy is making 500whp or something and having traction problems with drag radials/slicks, then the system that would be a possible(easier) swap would probably not be able to handle the power.

Another thing, just image how flooded fiesta forums probably are with AWD swap threads, everyone wants to turn their economy car into ken blocks fiesta. They see it can be done, so why cant they? ...for cheap too....







2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires
2005 Mazda 3 GS Auto- Wifes car
2006 Cobalt SS/SC - Intake, 2.5" Exhaust, GMPP Brakes, Solid Mounts, Ported S/C - Sold
1991 GMC Sierra - Lifted on 38.5" Swampers, Too much to list off. For Sale
Re: AWD Cavalier???
Friday, January 17, 2014 7:24 AM
The Versa Trak is not the system I have been looking at. I'm looking at a true AWD drivetrain built for performance.

Why? Because I'm a car enthusiast who loves making something far more than it used to be. It's the build and the pride of accomplishment that I enjoy, not just buying something anyone else can buy. But that's me.

I really wish I had the time to build it, as I've pretty much come up with the entire system design using an F40 6 speed manual, F46 transfer case, and a Haldex LSD rear diff (stay away from the electronic controlled version). The commonly available version of the transmission will bolt to the 2.2/2200OHV, 3100, 3400, 3500, and 3900 engines, or there is a version that bolts to a Saab 2.0 Ecotec, 2800DOHC V6, and 3600DOHC V6. Using purely off-the-shelf parts, the Saab 2.0, the 2800 and 3600, or 3500VVT and 3900 would be the simplest, as they have a flywheel for the F40. I have specs on a custom aluminum flywheel for the 3100 and 3400 which could be made pretty easy. The rear suspension could be used from a Saab AWD/XWD car without a lot of major modifications, or a few custom parts could be used to utilize some front end components from a J-body or N-body, adding custom caliper brackets for something like a Saturn caliper that would maintain the e-brake. A few structural support additions to stiffen the unibody would be part of the project as well. The exhaust tunnel may need modification to accomodate the driveshaft, but that wouldn't be a huge deal.

Overall, it could be done fairly easily with some pretty compatible parts. It would be unique, and I think it would be a fun build.





Re: AWD Cavalier???
Friday, January 17, 2014 7:36 AM
Using an F40 you say? Let's collaborate on an AWD LS4 J-body.



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