Fuel pump relay location - First Generation Forum

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Fuel pump relay location
Saturday, July 16, 2016 1:42 PM
Vehicle: 1987 Chevrolet Cavalier RS 2.8L 5SPD MANUAL

Bought this lump locally and I'm trying to go through the basics and get it running. It has been sitting for about 4-5 years. I pulled the upper manifold and injectors/rail off to get all the old gas out and check the injector spray. I would like to empty the gas tank of the old gas inside. Does anyone know where the fuel pump relay is? I'd like to jump it out and use the fuel pump to empty the tank. I see a nightmare of broken bolts/straps/fittings etc if I try and pull the tank out of the car. I've noticed the pump only runs for a few seconds when I go "key on".
Thanks!

Re: Fuel pump relay location
Saturday, July 16, 2016 9:41 PM
I would say if the fuel pump only runs briefly does not mean it is bad but,I would suggest (not draining the fuel this way!!!!!)The fuel pump relay is on the driver side at the firewall and while my 85 has a black cover over it your 87 may differ.The relay will be close to the brake booster area.I suggest NOT draining the tank using the fuel pump to push the OLD nasty fuel thru any part of the fuel system especially the pump.The short reason is as fuel ages out it gums up and will clog up the strainer which probably is toast and will fry the pump due to heat.I suggest if your wanting to cheat do the next.Just remove the primary fill hose at the tank and siphon out the old bad fuel.If it were me I would just drop the tank and do a brand new AC DELCO fuel pump ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!.I say this because the fuel in the tank maybe the original and will fail as it is approaching 30 years old if not already replaced.Dropping the fuel tank is not difficult as long as you have the car up on jack stands front/rear at least a foot up to alloy good room.By removing the tank it alloys you to just go ahead and replace the fuel sending unit and pump(I WOULD) due to age and strainer and I say use on a ac delco pump because the aftermarket pumps (SUCK).If you would like I will revive my thread specific to removing the tank and my show and shine upgrade to be specific on the things I did to my 85.I say do the Hard work 1st not half azz to address a issue that may present bigger problems later and do 2 times the work after the fact.I am being nothing short of upfront as my pump and sender bit the dust 2yrs ago literally at the same time.



Re: Fuel pump relay location
Saturday, July 16, 2016 9:49 PM
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=28&i=18957&t=18957&p=2 This is my page from 2014.I hope this gives you the general idea and the Proper way to update a old fuel system if you choose to do it the right way the 1st time.Again if you have any questions just ask.There is more on the 1st page but related to finding a correct sending unit and fuel hose from the neck to the tank.



Re: Fuel pump relay location
Monday, July 18, 2016 9:14 AM
Thanks for your response. I should have mentioned that I'm basically just trying to get this car running and get it out of my garage. I didn't purchase it to repair/restore and keep for myself. A friend of mine from across the country is interested in it and I said I would just get it running first for him to make sure it's not a complete dud. I can't see replacing a working fuel pump right now when I'm not even 100% sure the engine isn't trashed. But if I were keeping it as a pet project for myself I would definitely pull and restore the tank and replace the pump and screen. I think I will follow your advice for now and pull the fill tube and siphon the gas out. These cars just don't seem to be worth much so I have to gate my time/money investment in case my friend passes and I have to unload the car locally.
Re: Fuel pump relay location
Monday, July 18, 2016 11:53 AM
Steven McNulty wrote:

These cars just don't seem to be worth much so I have to gate my time/money investment in case my friend passes and I have to unload the car locally.


4 cyl. auto j-bodys aren't worth much, but V6 5-speed Js don't come around very often. Sight unseen, it's hard to guess a value, but this configuration should fetch a little more green than your average j-dog. If you decide you need to sell it, post it up here.

I will say that you seem lucky. If I ever let my turbo sit for a year or so, when I'd get back to it, I'd have to put in a new fuel pump. Every time. From about '98 to 2004 I think I put 5 pumps in the thing, and those delco turbo f-pumps aren't cheap, even with my wife's employee discounts.

The computer only turns on the pump for a few seconds to prime the system for starting, so that part sounds perfectly normal.




-Matt

82 Skyhawk Convertible: https://goo.gl/j7R6Cu
83 P/2K Turbo: http://goo.gl/EVKPX6
86 Firenza Cruiser: "Jack-Wagon" https://goo.gl/bWP2uK
87 Skyhawk Custom: http://goo.gl/krdDeU
90 Sunbird GT: "Turbo-Turd"
93 Sunbird Convertible: "FrankenBird"
(and a pair of Cavaliers I'd rather not talk about)
Re: Fuel pump relay location
Monday, July 18, 2016 12:13 PM
Unfortunately I wouldnít doubt if the pump turns out to be dying. The man I bought it from said the car just died on him. Subsequent starts resulted in the car running for a few seconds and then dying. That is why Iím tackling the fuel system first as I suspect a problem there. (checking injector spray/replace fuel filter/fresh gas/maybe FPR? etc.) I can hear the pump run but I guess that doesnít mean the pressure is right. Fortunately this car has a nice fuel pressure nipple on the fuel rail so it should be easy peezy to check. Do you know the proper fuel pressure for this pump/system?
Were these cars offered with 4SPD manuals and 5SPD manuals? Just wondering because Iíve done a high and low search (EBAY/craigslist/Google) for an equivalent car for sale and Iíve come up with virtually nothing. There's only one on EBAY right now and it's listed as having a 4SPD manual. Don't know if it's a mistake or not. So your comments about it being an unusual find donít surprise me. Of course itís only worth something to someone who has a nostalgic bug for the car. Like my friend. He learned how to drive on it and he and I used to blast around as teenís in a very similar car.
As far as condition itís about a 100K car. RS. 5SPD manual. All power windows work, convertible top goes up and down (though the top is shot) Body needs a lot of love. some bad rust/filler on the drivers rear quarter (right behind drivers door). Both doors are rotten on the bottom. But the underside of the body is ridiculously perfect. No rust, no rot. Typical surface rust on suspension parts. trunk drip rail and trunk bottom are perfect. It seems like a very saveable car but it might take a while before an interested party comes forward. Any special spots on these cars that I should check for rust/rot? I know the bottom of the doors is typical. Iíll try and post up some photos later

Does a convertible add or take away from its value? Not sure how many first Gen 2.8/5SPD/conv. have survived the last 30 years.
Re: Fuel pump relay location
Monday, July 18, 2016 12:59 PM
Well, I'm more of a 4 cyl. turbo guy, but I've always wanted to build a V6 car. I'd like to convert Frankenbird to a 5 speed V6, but the right donor hasn't come along. I say that to say this: I know that the earlier turbos were autos or 4 speeds because GM didn't have a 5 speed strong enough to handle the power. It seems to me that pre-87 there would have been 4 speeds coupled to V6s, but I can't say off the top of my head what years that would be applicable or when the 4-spd was dropped altogether. I also know that the OHC motors used an oil pressure switch that would run the f-pump after start. That switch is out on the Frankenbird, so I have the relay jumpered to be on all the time with the key (I'm not worried about blowing that engine up, I've tried a few times ). I don't know if there's something similar on the V6s.

It does kinda sound like low fuel pressure, though. Could be a pump or a regulator, or a blockage or a split line. Ethanol ate through the lines on Frankenbird (they don't have to tell you there's ethanol in the gas in Kansas). I've never seen a rubber hose disintegrate like that before. A thousand little fuel jets going all different directions... FUN! Sorry, I don't recall the pressure on that one for sure. I want to say it's around 32 psi, but don't bet money on that number. I don't have a book in front of me.

Tops are replaceable and available, so a trashed top doesn't make the car unsellable, but any premium that a convertible would bring to the seller will be eaten up by a discount consideration for the condition of the top. Sounds like you'll have a fun little car for your friend when you get it going.


-Matt

82 Skyhawk Convertible: https://goo.gl/j7R6Cu
83 P/2K Turbo: http://goo.gl/EVKPX6
86 Firenza Cruiser: "Jack-Wagon" https://goo.gl/bWP2uK
87 Skyhawk Custom: http://goo.gl/krdDeU
90 Sunbird GT: "Turbo-Turd"
93 Sunbird Convertible: "FrankenBird"
(and a pair of Cavaliers I'd rather not talk about)
Re: Fuel pump relay location
Monday, July 18, 2016 3:02 PM
Here's a photo showing the worst of the worst. Messed up front bumper, dented drivers door and rust behind the drivers door. I'm betting the top could be cleaned and a local shop could sew a new edging on it. But after all that's done it might be cheaper just to buy a new top. I don't know what they sell for. $200? might as well replace it. $1000? Could probably fix this one for sure. I'm headed out to dive into it right now. Plugs/wires/fuel filter/oil/filter/new gas/new battery etc.


Re: Fuel pump relay location
Monday, July 18, 2016 10:41 PM
The correct fuel pressure with the ignition ON the fuel pump should run for about 2 seconds.The fuel pressure with the key ON only is 40.5-47 psi.I will say that the pressure falling can be a multitude of items.The in tank check valve is not holding,or the the pump hose or pulsator leaking,fuel pressure regulator valve is leaking, and lastly a sticking injector stuck open.If you pull any of the plugs and check for the plugs being soaked in fuel points to a injector problem.I would simply check the Schrader valve for the fuel pressure and go there.I will say GM did not offer the 4spd manual past 1985 in 86 it went to a 5spd manual from there on recall.I will say finding a manual 5spd like yours is (RARE). and yes that car needs some help.I get your not into the specific ride but,it has potential and restored costing some good $$$$ to make it right you would never get the recoup on the other side for sure.In my view of the picture and I would go over it to access a (real value) the cars worth as it sits maybe a modest $400-500 at best if it were running.The condition just kicks it's as it is now.IT is not a scrap yard heap as it looks like a saver that needs the time to make it right!!!!I will say you cannot just go out and find these today and the transmission option makes it priceless because automatics were the norm on these back in the day.IT is rare and find the right buyer it running the price I said as it sits could bring that price rough looking and all.I would buy it if I were in the means to do so.



Re: Fuel pump relay location
Tuesday, July 19, 2016 7:36 AM
Thanks for taking the time to write. I appreciate the fuel pressure specs. You're spot on with the evaluation. I paid $400 for it which (I thought) was a steal but I probably should have dickered him down a bit. Between the battery and tune up parts I probably already have another $200 into it. Plus tow ($150). So I'm never seeing my money back out, even if I quit this very second. If I weren't doing it for a friend I'd never have bought it. It's possible his wife isn't going to let him have it. So I will get it running (hopefully with no more $$ investment) and sit on it until someone comes along that see's some value in it. I considered going through the whole car and bringing it back to a former glory, but after researching values online I came to the conclusion (which you've confirmed) that I would NEVER see my time/money back out. Not like restoring a tri-5 chevy or something. I'd only do it if I had a love affair with the car which unfortunately I don't. It's a cute little convertible though and I remember it really hauled a$$. I'll keep this thread updated. I only worked on it for 1/2 hour last night before I got too pissed and gave up. I don't have the patience anymore for these kinds of projects which is why I would never take one on for myself unless the payoff was huge.
Re: Fuel pump relay location
Tuesday, July 19, 2016 5:15 PM
Well pumped the old fuel out of the tank, emptied lines, replaced fuel filter, temp connected fuel rail/injectors and pressurized system. individually checked injectors, one leaks slightly, each one has a slightly different spray pattern ranging from normally looking to prostate problems. One injector doesn't work at all. Either stuck or electrically faulty. I haven't read any good things online about DIY soaking injectors or attempting to clean them at home. Choices are now to pay for the injectors to be cleaned, replace all of them ($$) or just throw the towel in. Since I can't clean them myself, my guess is I'll have to spend a couple hundred for them to be cleaned and another $50 to replace the bad injector.
Think i'm ready to cut my losses. After a night like this I wouldn't mind seeing it go to the junk yard.

Re: Fuel pump relay location
Tuesday, July 19, 2016 7:33 PM
If you do want to scrap it, drop me a line. Live in MA and travel to CT frequently. Definitely interested in the 5 speed set up.


I have this project on the back burner.




John







Re: Fuel pump relay location
Tuesday, July 19, 2016 9:49 PM
I Cannot stress this enough but get it running!!!!!!!!! I would skip a injector flush (really).I would check the ohm's value on each injector which should be 11.8-12.6 with the key ON.I would then just to get it running replace the known bad component.On the autozone webstie injectors cost $59.99 each (I know ouch).But on http://www.rockauto.com the injectors cost are for the actual part number FJ105T with the oring $28.79 OR the alternate FJ105 at $39.79 each.The versions are slightly different but come with the orings and the brand is the only real change overall.I would use a multimeter to check the ohm reading on each injector and IF you need a guide to do so I can link a awesome site to understand how to do this.In short the car is worth every bit of $400 and running adds a touch more untouched but running adds a bill more easy.I will give you some (pep) talk these cars are appreciated by devoted guys from the 80's.Just do not go and scrap it as you cut your loss and trash a good saver car for a enthusiast buyer some where at some point.I understand your wanting a quick turn around but J bodies are fickle on buyers and it is the wait and find the (right buyer) even just to recoup your cost overall.If I were seriously at means to buy it I would scoop the car up as it sits!!!!!Granted I do love the Jbody almost more than my first ride a 1987 mazda b series cabplus pick up bought brand new in the day.Crazy yeah but it appeals to ME a boat load.



Re: Fuel pump relay location
Wednesday, July 20, 2016 5:16 AM
Yeah I won't scrap it. Just a tempting thought after a frustrating night. A couple of the injectors are pretty bad though so I'm going to try to clean them tonight. Even if they don't come out perfect, or as good as pro service, they'll be much better than they were. One was just peeing out a single little stream, my conscience won't let me bolt that back on the car. Hoping the one dead injector is just stuck and I don't have to replace it. Thanks for the coil specs, I'm an electrical engineer so if I can't manage to test them I better just kill myself.

84conv, nice car! That's pretty much exactly what my friend was looking for I think. His father's was white and that looks to be in pretty good condition. His had a tan interior and a tan top, a nice combo that I haven't seen elsewhere. Mines' blue and it looks like yours is blue as well. I can't give it away but if you want to float me an offer I'll keep you in mind. I have about $750-800 into it right now. I first have to wait and hear back from my friend as to whether he's going to take it or not. And I'm going to put one or two more evenings into it to see if I can get it running. Ron is keeping me motivated.
Re: Fuel pump relay location
Wednesday, July 20, 2016 3:49 PM
Small update. Purchased a single fuel injector off Amazon. Thank you for providing the PN. Here's my red-neck fuel injector cleaning setup. Youtube special. Glad I tried it. 3 of the injectors with the worst spray patterns cleaned up very easily. Within 20-30 seconds of spraying/purging. Now 5 out of 6 are spraying pretty much identically to one another. Is it optimal? probably not. I measured the coil resistance of the 6 injectors. 4 were around 11-12 ohms. 1 was 6 ohms. (working) The injector that isn't working is about 3 ohms. So I have one bad injector and one injector that's probably on its way out. I'll only replace one for the time being. New fuel injector isn't coming until Friday so I'm done for a few days. I hate waiting on projects like this, would rather get it done in one marathon evening


Re: Fuel pump relay location
Wednesday, July 20, 2016 5:48 PM
FWIW... We've got an LKQ self service yard here that sells injectors for $7.50 each, and they carry a 30 day warranty. They'll also print an interchange for you to know what other cars they have in the lot that use the same parts. If I was looking for injectors on the cheap, I'd take a meter to the yard and ohm out an injector before buying it, then clean & flow test it before installing. Pretty low risk option, if you've got something similar in your area.


-Matt

82 Skyhawk Convertible: https://goo.gl/j7R6Cu
83 P/2K Turbo: http://goo.gl/EVKPX6
86 Firenza Cruiser: "Jack-Wagon" https://goo.gl/bWP2uK
87 Skyhawk Custom: http://goo.gl/krdDeU
90 Sunbird GT: "Turbo-Turd"
93 Sunbird Convertible: "FrankenBird"
(and a pair of Cavaliers I'd rather not talk about)
Re: Fuel pump relay location
Thursday, July 21, 2016 7:05 AM
Thanks for the thought. Pick-a-parts are uncommon in the Northeast in my experience. I guess we're all too sue happy here. I can think of three that have since stopped the practice for all but loyal customers. They were getting 'a certain group of people' who were coming in and then claiming injury etc. Looking for a off-the-books payoff etc. I only know of one place that allows you to walk the yard with your tool kit and pull parts for a reduced rate. Pretty sure you have to sign a waiver there now. What a world.....
Re: Fuel pump relay location
Thursday, July 21, 2016 8:21 AM
Used to have quite a few pick a part JY's here too then they all either closed due to local municipality's making them illegal or bought out by other JY's. Now we have 2 new pick a parts that opened up within the past few years.








Re: Fuel pump relay location
Thursday, July 21, 2016 2:38 PM

Nice to see you making progress.
An '87 v6 5spd is a great package.
I bought an '86 z24 new and you could
only get the 4speed , I checked off the $49
option box for the 5 speed but was told it was
a 4 cylinder option only.
Not strong enough for the 2.8 in '86.
Instead you got the overdrive 4spd trans.
3rd gear is 1:1 and 4th gear is around a 75%
overdrive.
When i used to race those 80's 5.0 mustangs i had to launch at 4,000 pedal the clutch just into wheel spin and
be in front by top of 2nd gear cause when i hit 3rd they
would fly by me.
Oh ,and always had to bring the steering wheel a
1/4 turn to the right to balance the ridiculous
torque steer at launch while everything else was happening🙄
Sorry for the reminiscing , fun times though
Re: Fuel pump relay location
Friday, July 22, 2016 7:12 AM
Reminiscing is nice. I don't have any of those stories from when I was young. My first vehicle was a 1966 Dodge Town Wagon. (Power Wagon Suburban) I wasn't racing anyone in that beast. Nor was I in the 1972 chevy pickup I bought after that.
Fuel injector should be arriving tonight. Haven't got the car to crank over yet, do these cars have safety switches on the clutch? EG Hot feed to starter solenoid in start position is only there if the clutch is pushed in? If not I may have more gremlins to chase out.
Re: Fuel pump relay location
Friday, July 22, 2016 9:56 AM

Yes there is a switch on the clutch pedal,
clutch has to be depressed to crank.

Re: Fuel pump relay location
Friday, July 22, 2016 6:09 PM
Well she's a runner! Alive and well. Sounds pretty f'ing good if you ask me. Has that un-mistakable 2.8 Cavalier exhaust tone. I remember it like it was yesterday, not 20+ years ago. Blew just a little smoke at first and a little lifter noise but both disappeared withing 30 seconds or so. Hasn't been run in 4-5 years. Had a hesitation when I snapped the throttle so I gave the MAF a quick spray and it seems to have improved it about 75%. The hesitation is kind of like if a accelerator pump was bad on a engine with a carburetor. Might be that questionable injector. (with the 6 ohm coil resistance) Idle was also hanging a little on start up so I cleaned the IACV. Wanted to take it for a burn around the block but as soon as I stepped on the brake pedal a brake line blew out. *sigh* Also, the clutch barely dis-engages. Based on my experience, a clutch which doesn't engage until you've almost released the pedal is a sign of a clutch worn out. This engages when the pedal is just barely released. Perhaps it just needs to be adjusted. Not going to bother tackling that because I have no plans on fixing the brake line.

Think I'm done. Going on craigslist as a running vehicle........and that's about it......unless anyone here is interested. Will post up details and photos in the for sale forum.
Re: Fuel pump relay location
Sunday, July 24, 2016 8:37 PM
The clutch issue can be several things.First check the fluid level in the clutch fluid reservoir.If the fluid level is good next.2nd it could be a worn out slave cylinder.If upon these two items are checked and or replaced then Lastly it would be the clutch.I go the Simple route as on my 1987 mazda truck 5spd it goes thru clutch slave cylinders every 5yrs because of CHEAP AZZZ parts.It creates the identical say shifter cable or clutch or throw out bearing going bad.Typically if a clutch is failing yes the pedal is weak,but if the car in neutral ALL is quiet your throw out bearing also know as the release bearing would be noisy as crap.The clutch can have chatter as well if it is failing.It is your choice but I would at least check the slave cylinder master which might be under a black cover on the firewall and make sure it between the low to full mark of course.Btw what is the mileage on the car as most clutches if driven with (good sense) can go a long time pending the owners habits.Done for now.I will say changing out the clutch master on the 1st gens are easy as it is mounted ON top of the transmission and bleeding the system is really easy.A decent car running and moving means more $$$$$ and I would at least check these areas as it adds value as a true operational car in some respects.



Re: Fuel pump relay location
Monday, July 25, 2016 5:27 AM
Thanks for the information on the clutch. I will definitely check the fluid level tonight but beyond that I donít care to invest another penny or second of my time. If the brake line hadnít blow out I might consider addressing the clutch, but the car isnít drivable without brakes so there will be no test drives. I canít even pull it out of my garage because the e-brake doesnít work either. Thereís nowhere to patch in a new section of brake line, the lines are rusting/scaled from front to back. That would just be another can of worms opened up. Car is up in the Junk/Wrecked/Sold forum and also on V6Z24.com. I will probably put it on craigslist this week. EBAY will be my last shot but holding out on that because I donít want to pay the associated feeís.
Re: Fuel pump relay location
Monday, July 25, 2016 8:50 AM
2 PM sent.

Sorry, I forgot I sent it on Saturday night, so I doubled up on the PM in error.
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