Better engineering - First Generation Forum

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Better engineering
Friday, June 22, 2018 12:46 PM
Having a 84 turbo that getting rebuilt I came across a 91 non turbo. I started thinking to myself 1 if they have in proved on the engine design any. Seems like they did the time belt setup is different it uses a tensioner not the waterpump also they use a tensioner for the alt.and pw str pump. Now the 64 thousand dollar question will this all work with my 84? I think it will but not sure so I asking for help. Because as these keep getting older and the last year was 94 should we all find ways to keep them on the road. Being a GM the sub structure should be the same right? So if anyone has possible answers let's do this

Re: Better engineering
Saturday, June 23, 2018 5:09 AM
I won't be able to answer that, but I'm sure the first two questions are going to be what motor do you have (your 84), and what motor are your looking at (the 91)?

I will say the turbo was a bolt on, so no crazy mods from non-turbo to turbo.
Re: Better engineering
Saturday, June 23, 2018 8:30 PM
I'm just trying to keep these on the road if anything can work from the 1st or 2nd generations we owe it to ourselves to find out what works. The Brazilian engines are rather rare
Re: Better engineering
Tuesday, June 26, 2018 4:49 AM
I think the holes are the same place in the block, but I'll take a closer look.

On my TBI 1.8, they use them for a steel timing pointer. I'm assuming the 1.8 turbo has a timing pointer there also. The later 2.0s had the timing pointer as part of the plastic timing belt cover.

There are a bunch of changes through the years with the SOHC engines. I have versions of most of them, just no turbo engines, but I know a bit about them. If you have any more questions about changes let me know.



86 Skyhawk wagon 1.8SOHC 93 Sunbird two door 2.0SOHC 93 Sunbird four door 2.0SOHC
Re: Better engineering
Tuesday, June 26, 2018 12:05 PM
Well I got parts from the 91 2.0 N/A. I got the whole top end and the timing belt setup also the brackets for the alt.and pwr steering pump and both of them also. I hope that they can be used on my 1.8. I thought that the blocks did not change just the displacement. Trying to make it easier to work on. Like the bracket for the coil on the 91 it sits right by the distributor and on the 84 it's behind the intake. The engineering had to change for the dealership's mechanics. less involved in and out. Thats just my thinking
Re: Better engineering
Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:24 AM
I took a quick look, all the bolt holes seem to be in the right place. With the (longer) 2.0 belt, you should be able to use the tensioner if you want to.

I'm not sure about the serpentine setup, guessing you'll need to swap pulleys, since the 1.8 uses the manual tensioned offset belts.

Did you pull the head and intake too? Just curious. I'm sure you noticed they're different & probably won't be much use. I think the 2.0 turbo used the TBI head design (it changed again slightly for the port injected version) but the intake bolt to runner pattern is different between the 1.8 and 2.0.




86 Skyhawk wagon 1.8SOHC 93 Sunbird two door 2.0SOHC 93 Sunbird four door 2.0SOHC
Re: Better engineering
Wednesday, June 27, 2018 5:34 PM
Yep got the head and cam housing did not see a difference but then again I don't have the 1.8 head at home it's at the machinist. I bought 4 recon'd rods and 1 was out of round. Bought 4 new 20 over pistons and rings just found out the oil ring grove is shallow and the ring set I've bought are for deep grooves. I hate ordering over the Internet. Anyway with the heads thought that their the same. Found out that the crank is not the same
Re: Better engineering
Thursday, June 28, 2018 4:43 AM
Not that it affects you now, but info for the future ... so the 1.8 head has bigger intake port diameters, the ports are shorter and shaped differently, and while the bolt pattern is technically the same, it's offset differently from the ports than the 2.0 is. Which means heads and intakes aren't interchangeable between the 1.8 and 2.0 without also swapping the intake. The combustion chambers are different shapes also. I believe pretty much everything else interchanges, like cam housing and all the valvetrain items.

What pistons are you using? And what all is being done at the machinist's?
This should be a fun engine when it's done!


86 Skyhawk wagon 1.8SOHC 93 Sunbird two door 2.0SOHC 93 Sunbird four door 2.0SOHC
Re: Better engineering
Friday, June 29, 2018 10:52 AM
!!WOW!!

drivesa5 is library of info!! It is wonderful to have someone share all this - you ought to consider creating a Sticky Post someday when you have the time and can get all this great information together about the Brazil engines!

Incidently I did a post myself years ago with a N/A Brazil showing theses engines are Non-Interferrence. The Turbo engines have lower compression so I seriously doubt things would go bump in the night with them as well......



.



Re: Better engineering
Monday, July 02, 2018 9:28 AM
To build on what you said, they're all non interference .. (until you get into the DOHC versions) which is great for when the timing belt breaks. The compression drop on the turbo motors is achieved with a larger piston dish, so no problems there. Like I said, never had any turbos, but I am pretty positive the head for the 1.8 turbo is the same as the 1.8 TBI - same story for the 2.0L. The 2.0 head got a chamber redesign for the port fuel injection 92-94 (more of a wedge shape,) but the ports remained the same.

Thanks for the compliment! I thought I was about the only one who did anything with them still, so I didn't think the demand was there, but I'll consider a post.
I have learned and gathered a lot of info about them. For some unknown reason I have a thing for them: daily driving, keeping them going, and yes, even modifying them You'll come to love the inevitable cracked head and/or blown head gasket! I lost track of how many times I've done them. Grab one from the spare pile, and a couple evenings after work and they're back on the road haha.


86 Skyhawk wagon 1.8SOHC 93 Sunbird two door 2.0SOHC 93 Sunbird four door 2.0SOHC
Re: Better engineering
Friday, July 06, 2018 5:30 PM
What the saying,No time and no money. What's going on with the engine well had to bore 020 over rust in the cylinders would no go away with honing. So perfect circle 020 pistons for "J" also perfect circle rings, we think the expansion ring could be wrong. Federal mogul reman rods, 1was egg shaped out of the box,and a 010 under Standard crankshaft kit, it has 1 welded journal,. But what can you do that's why I went to U pull it and got those parts from that 91. I bought this in april for my daughter. Never had this much of a problem getting engine parts like I've had with this. This is why I made this post the 90's should be easier to find and using mechanical parts from these should help keep ours on the road. Thats why we need to know what can or can not work.I think I'm lucky found her with 49k stored for 10yrs. She's worth this @$!pain I just wanted my daughter to be able to drive her this summer and for at least a few yrs after

Re: Better engineering
Friday, July 06, 2018 6:10 PM
Keep the efan running and general maintenance and they last about 300k. Got to love German engineering!(Opel)

Doug in P.R.


92 Pontiac Sunbird LE, 2.0, AT, Red / Black with Grey 148K miles. Hurricane Maria Surviver! ( It takes a licking and keeps on ticking ! ).....in Salinas, Puerto Rico!




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