Hi all,
I own one of the few remaining turbo sunbird hatches. It has about 130K on it, for an 84 it isnt bad and runs good, but i want mroe power. Would it be worth the money/time to swap in the 2.0 over the 1.8?? What all would i need?? Do i need to swap ecms?? Would rewiring of the harness be needed? Would i be better off just getting a better turbo with a boost increase, adding larger exhaust and an intercooler to the 1.8?? I want to get about 300-350 crank HP so would this be conceivable with the 1.8 without a major buildup?? Thanks for any info that can be provided.


Dreams do come true....
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the 2.0l would be a wise swap for more power. the 1.8 turbo was realy a 1.8l n/a with a turbo and lower compression. the 1.8 still had cast pistons, and realy wont take a lot of boost.

your best bet is to swap the motor wiring harness and ecm. uoir tranny should be the same, aswell as axles, rad, accessories, ect.

the 2.0l turbo is a very strong motor, stock they can support 220hp easy. just by swapping on a tgp turbo (a t25 from an 89-90 turbo grand prix) you gain 35hp at stock boost. add an intercooler, 2.5"-3" exaust and you can safley up the boost a bit, and will be pushing over 200hp. passed that, it gets a bit harder. the stock throttle body becomes an issue at 220hp, (fiero v6 throttle body is the easyest upgrade, but not easy by any means), you need to be able to tune the ecm, or go stand alone because of the fuel cut at 12psi. the best thing is the bottom end has very little that needs doing to support 350+hp. the pistons are forged 8:1 compression, the rods need beam polishing and arp bolts, and balance the entire rotating assembly. head studs are needed, and due to the lack of avalibility, you need to have the block drilled out for 1/2" studs. also a copper head gasket is needed.

the sohc head will only support 350hp fully ported, there just isnt anymore air you can cram through the ports. the good news is that being a global motor, it has been used in vauxhauls, dawoo's, and isuzu's, even in the new optra 5 (i havent confirmed this myself yet), and in many, they use a dohc head, and the entire top end will bolt onto the sunbird 2.0l. the biggest issue though is with the ecm, you need to fab a crank trigger up to run DIS, as the dohc heads dont have provisiuons for a distributor.

Wow thanks, thats alot more info than i expected to get so soon So if i planned a full standalone, a 2.0 with a newer 2.0T DOHC head from on of Gm's european brands would be a good swap. I really dont want to have to open the motor up, and i thought i had read before about 2.0's reaching 300hp or so with just a turbo and exhaust upgrade, intercooler, injectors and of course a boost increase. If i were to make a better intake manifold with a larger TB, as i have no problem fabricating things, with the info you have provided i should be abkle to reach 350 crank HP or so. Does this seem correct??

P.S. Are the motor mounts the same??


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Or, could i even use a newer 2.0 turbo from a vauxhaul? Other than the head is the motor the same?? Or will it at least go i with relative ease?


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there is a 2.0l turbo dohc in a vauxhaul, i cant remember what model though. the rest are non turbo, however the heads can be swapped. you would need to make your own turbo header though.

you could in theory make 300hp with enough boost with an intercooler, injectors, bigger turbo and exaust. the biggest thing is tuning. at 12psi, the ecm cuts the injectors as a saftey. there are a couple ways around it. the cheapest is putting a check valve in with a 10psi spring in the map sensor line, so when you hit 10psi, it pops open and the max the ecm will see is 10psi. however, the ecm cant compensate for more boost, so you end up running lean with to much timing and melting pistons. the proper way to do it is tune the ecm or run stand alone.

I'd like to offer some advice here;
Firstly, the head can support more than 350hp. I don't know where this figure has came from. A properly modified head can support ~230hp in N/A form, it'll move enough air for more than 350hp in turbo form. We are no different from the Ford 2.3 turbo/Dodge 2.2 turbo guys when it comes to having crappy cylinder heads. Just make sure the turbo you use can support the flow rate you want, efficiently, at higher boost levels. Visit the Dodge and Ford forums and you'll get some ideas.

Secondly, considering the age of the turbo engines now I don't think it'll be a good idea to aim for 300+hp without pulling the engine apart and inspecting it, then replacing any worn parts. If you don't it probably won't be long before something fails when you start cranking up the boost.

Basic recipe for 300hp - If 2Literturbo sees this please comment
1. Start with more cubic inches - use a 2.0L turbo engine as a base. Strip it down and replace worn components. Fit ARP rod bolts.
2. Intercool it, keeping pipe routing as short as you can with gentle bends.
3. Fit a decent air filter in an area where it can draw cool air - cooler air into a turbo = cooler air out!
4. Upgrade the turbo. You'll need something that flows 30-35lb/min. If you want to keep the stock turbo manifold you'll need either; a T25/T3 hybrid, new Garrett GT series or a Mitsubishi turbo. You can ditch the stock manifold for a T3 cast manifold from this guy mvaux. Both Tony (2LitreTurbo) and myself are using his manifolds. You can then chose from the range of T3 or T3/T04E range of turbos. He does have a full "kit" for 300hp if you want to not build your own.
5. Larger throttle body or different manifold. You can do the Fiero TB swap which is detailed by Tony on www.lt3engine.tk or modify the existing manifold by fitting a centrally mounted larger TB. Another alternative is to import a intake manifold from the UK. These have a 55mm TB as stock.
6. Free flowing exhaust system. Use 2.75" or 3" if you can.
7. Fuel system. You will need larger injectors, Tony and myself are using Mopar Super 60 injectors which are cheap and availble from Mopar dealers. Fuel pump will need upgrading and the regulator will need changing to an adjustable one. How you increase fuelling across the engines operating range is up to you - either with a stand alone system/reprogramming the stock ecu or use an FMU.
8. Don't forget the rest of the drivetrain! Check your transmission, axles and cv joints can take the increased output.

Other things to consider;
Cylinder heads - Intake valve can be enlarged by 1mm and the exhaust by 0.5mm without the metal inbetween them getting too thin. Porting is worthwhile as it means less boost is needed which reduces intake temps. Upgraded cams, valve springs and vernier pulleys are available from the UK and Europe. You may find a cam pulley on e-bay if you search for C20NE, Vauxhall 2.0, Vauxhall 8v, etc. Dialling in the cam timing can pull another 10hp out of the motor over the stock timing.
Cylinder head/block sealing - This could be an issue with only four head bolts/studs per cylinder and a narrow cylinder head and bore spacing. I'd at least get the head and block surface skimmed over and use a Cometic steel gasket. At present we're still to find a long term solution.

Like I said the "recipe" is basic, but it'll allow you to at least get a feel for the costs and time of the project.


On the subject of 16v conversions, if you want to swap your head for a 16v its best to use one from an early C20XE (thats the engine type) found in Vauxhall/Opel Mk2 Astra and Mk3 Cavaliers. These have provision for a distributor on the end of the cam housing. You will need to also get the cam belt back and front covers, tensioners, etc. Modifications will also need to be made to the pistons for valve clearance, probably modify your distributor and the block needs to be fitted with an oil restrictor.

Frankly though, for anyone in the US or Canada, you'd be better off finding a Daewoo with a 2.0/2.2L 16v (or an Isuzu Amigo 2.2 16v) and pulling the complete engine out of that and converting it over to turbo.


Stef



--------------------------
LT3 Powered Vauxhall Astra.
Intercooler, Mopar Super 60 Injectors, SDS Stand Alone EFI, Ported Big Valve Head, Cast T3 Manifold With External Wastegate + More

So the daewoo 2.0's and 2.2's can be swapped in as easily as the 2.0 turbo?? I would prefer to start with a factory turbo motor, so itd seem the 2.0T from the grand ams and the like would be the best choice. I had heard in the past about OB1 programmers similar to the one HPtuners i developing for the OBD2 cars, anyone have any additional info on this?? Ill make another thread in performance. I had hoped to use a hybrid turbo, and likely a custom manifold, being the one you are using has a standard t3 flange on it, id likely use that with a t3/t4. I had figured fuel pump and regulator should be upgraded, what is a good source for these for this car?? As far as drivetrain goes, im pretty sure i have a 3spd auto, as the top speed is about 85-90. Not sure what kind of power it can take, but being an auto, if i were to add a tranny cooler id think itd be able to take ti alright, but im sure i could be wrong. As far as axles go, would a cryoed set of 2.0 axles do the trick?? Itd seem theyd be alright. Thanks guys im getting some good info here.


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Everything Stef said is right on. If I may I'd like to add a few of my own thoughts.

I didn't beam polish my rods because there's so little "meat" on them I didn't like the idea of removing any. I haven't heard of one breaking anywhere but at the big end anyway which is usually from the stock bolts stretching. ARP bolts are a must.

Unless you want to do some welding and fabrication to mount a large TB centrally I'd use the2.0 MPFI intake with the 54 MM Fiero TB. You get the raised TB location and the Fiero unit will bolt right up after you open the hole for the throttle blade. A hell of a lot easier then making the Fiero TB fit the turbo manifold.

Cometic's gasket is sized for the stock head bolts. If you want to use 1/2" studs you need to open the holes up yourself. You'd think since they make it they could do it for you but they told me "no". When I opened mine up I didn't deburr it well enough so the little shards left made it leak. To do it right you need to drill out the rivets, split all 3 pieces apart then drill it and deburr it. I never felt like trying mine again after it leaked the first time.

If you O-ring the block or head you may not be able to seal the coolant passages well with a stock type gasket. It took me a while to get mine to seal up but I did it. I had no luck finding an off the shelf copper gasket in the US other than the "head saver" shim Fel-pro and NAPA sell. That's too thin to act as a gasket on it's own though. You'd have better luck going to someone in the UK for one. Maybe Stef has a contact on that?


Some US places will make one for you but you either have to take a picture of one so they can see if it's in their database or send them one to copy. Prices range from $75 bucks to $175 bucks and timeframes are usually a couple of weeks.
There are probably as many people who have had luck with copper gaskets on street cars as people who haven't. I never have so I stay away from them.

The GP turbo is worth 30-40 HP as stated and you can easily make 235-240 hp with a completely stock engine, GPT, and bolt ons like exhaust, air filter, intercooler.

I'm using a Mitsubishi TD06 17 C from a Syclone/Typhoon and in completely stock configuration it spooled up very fast and will support around 360 HP. That Mvaux exhaust manifold is excellent and a very good bargain at $125 bucks or so. The stock 2.0 exhaust manifold is very small inside so why waste time with it? You could fab one up yourself of course too.

I'm not aware of any adjustable fuel pressure regulator that swaps into our cars. Even if there was I don't know how you'd adjust it under the intake manifold unless you have arms like a chimpanzee. I'd cut and flare the fuel rail to adapt it to a more conventional AFPR and call it a day.

A Walbro 340 fuel pump fits right into the tank and will support pretty much all the power we'll ever make. The SY/TY, Turbo TA pump is also an easy swap if you want to go that route.

The Mopar Super 60, 52 lb/hr injectors area super deal at $35 bucks apiece new. Problem is you'll need to use an FMU or hop onboard the OBD1 tuning train. There are a few different tuning programs you can use like Tunercat or Tunerpro but there's some expense involved for cabling, a laptop, an emulator, etc to get started. Plus, if you're a cement head like me expect a long, troubled learning curve.

I don't know where the "350 HP head flow barrier" number originated from but no one has shown me any proof that it's real. I know the head flow numbers off my head and would be eager to compare them to anyone else who has any.

I didn't know there was a Euro 16V head with a distributor hole. Next time you come across one Stef let me know what it would cost me to buy it and ship it here. I'll add it to
my collection. My Amigo has no distributor hole.

I'm not sure what mods were done to the 1.8T auto transmission but I'm wiling to bet the 2.0 version is stronger. The 2.0 turbo code is PPC. I can tell you what has been done to mine to get it to live if you want to email me. It's too lengthy to get into here. I dont think you have to worry about axle shafts since no one has ever reported snapping one that I've read about. At least not with an automatic anyways.

Tony


Tony
1987 Sunbird GT turbo convert
Ported intake, Fiero 53 MM TB, 52 lb inj, ported and flowed head, tube header, Mitsu TD06, ARP rod
bolts/head studs, adj cam sprocket, 4" x 12" x 31" FMIC, Paxton AFPR, modified 125 trans/LSD
unit/3.42's, custom chip tuning, Alky Control Methanol injection
13.61 ET at 101.44 mph, 262 WHP/350WTQ

2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP roadster, 2.0 turbo w/GMPP exh, CAI and turbo upgrade, 290 hp/325 ft lbs

1969 Olds 442 convert
400 Eng, 200-4R trans, 3.73 posi, power everything, OAI

Yopur email is unlisted, i would be very interested in learning what you have done, especially the LSD. I want to swap in a manual i think, as it would seem more fitting, and i am willing to do fabrication, in fact i want to fab up some things, intake manifold etc Id like to adapt a HO TB. Thanks guys youve been real helpful. Looks like ill be picking up a 2.0 pretty soon then. Anyone have one for sale??


Dreams do come true....
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My email is olzkng@aol.com. Not in my profile? I'll have to update it.

The guy who runs www.lt3engine.tk (Billy) had a complete 2.0T for his car that he'd decided to sell. I think he still has it but he lives in Maryland I believe. You can go there and ask him and see.

Tony


Tony
1987 Sunbird GT turbo convert
Ported intake, Fiero 53 MM TB, 52 lb inj, ported and flowed head, tube header, Mitsu TD06, ARP rod
bolts/head studs, adj cam sprocket, 4" x 12" x 31" FMIC, Paxton AFPR, modified 125 trans/LSD
unit/3.42's, custom chip tuning, Alky Control Methanol injection
13.61 ET at 101.44 mph, 262 WHP/350WTQ

2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP roadster, 2.0 turbo w/GMPP exh, CAI and turbo upgrade, 290 hp/325 ft lbs

1969 Olds 442 convert
400 Eng, 200-4R trans, 3.73 posi, power everything, OAI

Does anyone know the limit of the 1.8?? If i keep boost below 20psi, but with a larger turbo, like a t3/t4, a custom manifold, intercooled will it be alright? Assuming all fuel and tuning needs are met, would the 1.8 turbo hold up reliably enough to drive daily?? Mine is at 15psi with a manual boost controller right now with the stock t2, and is running like stock.


Dreams do come true....
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from what i have read, the 1.8l turbo still uses cast pistons, wich is a huge no-no for any amount of boost. i beleive stock they ran aprox 5psi, and thats about all i would ever trust with cast pistons, especialy 20 year old cast pistons.
without proper tuning you will melt a piston, and i would expect to break a piston at anything beyond 10psi, anything over stock being risky.

The stock guage im assuming is pretty far off then as it has always shown 10psi, and i have increased it to show 14psi without issue. In fact i ran it a bit with the manual boost controller cranked all the way "up" so it was boosting whatever the turbo can put out, it was fast and it ran just fine, but i turned it back down right after. f they are in fact cast, then im not too thrilled about that. We have replaced the head gasket and everything inside looked good, showing little wear. The engine only has 130k on it and has had an easy life. If i were to stay close to stock boost levels, but with a larger turbo itd seem to me i could make low 200's and remain in the realm of "safe" assuming adequate fuel is present. Can anyone back this up?? It seems not many venture into the 1.8, but more the 2.0. I really would like to avaoid a swap if at all possible. Does anyone know of a better source of info about these engines? Is there one?


Dreams do come true....
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I also forgot to mention, my car currently has a watercooled turbo on it, im assuming its the 2.0 turbo. As far as i know the previous owner (a teenage girl) never had this done to it. The only thing i can think of is that the T2 went out and was replace with the t28 i think it is from the 2.0 What i am wondering is, would a shop do such a thing and can a t28 just be installed like ti fits stock as there is no indication of them drilling any holes for coolant fittings or anything, not to metion the lines go to the same place they do on the 2.0. From the pcitures ive seen the 2.0 looks no different from my 1.8. Do they look this similar or is there a chance i may already have a 2.0? My add had said when he go the head gasket is was for a 1.8, but if the difference between the 1.8 and 2.0 is in stroke not bore itd seem that the head gasket would be the same. I can take pics but i have no where to host them, someone help me out. Thatd be great if it is a 2.0 already, but i have a feeling it just looks like one.


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Or alternatively, do the 1.8 and 2.0 share the same block?? I would think they would, being that they look the same externally. If the difference is in fact in stroke rather than bore couldnt i just swap the crank, rods and pistons from the 2.0 and be all set if i use the 2.0 ECM?? I know then entire process is more complicated than that but itd seem feasible, am i wrong??


Dreams do come true....
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96sunfireconvt wrote:Or alternatively, do the 1.8 and 2.0 share the same block?? I would think they would, being that they look the same externally. If the difference is in fact in stroke rather than bore couldnt i just swap the crank, rods and pistons from the 2.0 and be all set if i use the 2.0 ECM?? I know then entire process is more complicated than that but itd seem feasible, am i wrong??

No, the 1.8 and 2.0 are definetly different block castings, says the engine size right on the front of em. Course it took me years to realize I used to have a 1.8 block in my car instead of the stock 2.0 but that's all history now.

As Protonus said, the 2.0L block is different. When the 2.0L was introduced the block was made stiffer and lighter. There may be other revisions but I can't recall them off the top of my head...
If you go to the LT3 site and have a browse around, Billy has put up some magazine articles I found on the early Sunbirds with the 1.8L engine. I believe they can take the same abuse as the 2.0L

I don't recall the bore and stroke of the 1.8. I have one somewhere in storage I've been meaning to pull apart for a while now... I pulled out the intake a while ago as the euro version has a really nice intake. Larger, shorter, straighter runners than the 2.0L. The TB has two butterflys also. Area is equivalent to a 60mm TB But that's going off-topic...

The 1.8L and 2.0L both used T25 turbos. A T28 is generally a T25 fitted with a T3 compressor wheel. If you use a bigger turbo which flows more than stock at the same psi all you'll probably get is compresser surge as it will operate to the left of the compressor map. If you want to swap to a bigger turbo all you need is a T3 with a 50 or *maybe* a 60 trim compressor wheel. A T3/TO4 hybrid is too big unless you have the intake/head/exhaust flowing way better than stock.

Stef


--------------------------
LT3 Powered Vauxhall Astra.
Intercooler, Mopar Super 60 Injectors, SDS Stand Alone EFI, Ported Big Valve Head, Cast T3 Manifold With External Wastegate + More

Stef wrote:The 1.8L and 2.0L both used T25 turbos.

Not here at least. The 1.8 had a T-2, not a T-25. It has slightly different specs but most importantly, is not water cooled. 87+ when they introduced the Turbo 2.0, they put on the T-25 that is water cooled.

I'm not very advanced as you guys on here, but you might not want to forget about the transmission, I was doing some reading about the different gearboxes, and I found out that the 4 cylinder engines had weaker trannys than the 6 cylinders did, I dont know if the same goes for the turbo 4's or not, but I would certainly look into that, I think from what I read, the later 80's muncie built getrag 5 spd was the strongest as far as direct bolt up, and I dont think they can take much more than 250HP, but dont quote me on that. look up some of the fiero forums, you'll find all kids of links, and info. fieros have the same drivetrains as the cavs, so what works for them usually works for us. I can just imagine having all that work done to the engine, and get on it one good time and shatter the gearbox, that would suck.

I know I bookmarked that page about the muncie trannys I just have to look for it, but when I come across it I'll post it

all the 4 cyl cars had isuzu 5 s[eeds. with the exception of the turbo 1.8 and 2.0 (as far as i know). the 1.8t got the muncie 4 speed, same as the v6 did, and 7 brought the muncie/getrag 5 speed, same as the v6. the 5 speed isnt exactly the same as the v6. the 2.0t has a different bellhousing and a different 2nd gear.

This thread bounces back and forth between info and webinfo. Wow. Luckily it keeps getting dragged back into the realm of the BTDT folks.

I want to add a few things.

1) The stock boost gauge is notoriously inaccurate. Mine (89 2.0T) read 14 psi at 10. The tachometer and speedometer suffer the same fate BTW.

2) No boost on cast pistons. <sigh> Ya know, my Cavalier is proof that many things that "can't be done" can be done if you know what you're doing. Tuned for 87 octane, stock 94 spec OHV 2.2 engine, 9.3ish:1 compression, too small T25 turbo, non-intercooled, at almost 8 psi steady state boost. And it's been built and daily driven for 2 years now.

3) I have the MPFI intake on my turbo car. The swap can be very easy (I chose to make mine difficult). When locating the intake, also get the fuel lines, fuel rail, FPR, throttle cable, and trans detent cable. It sounds like a bunch of extra parts but should only add an hour or two at most at the wreckers and it will save some work during the conversion. You need to add a few holes to the new intake. One is for the MAP sensor and wastegate boost signal line, another is for the IAT sensor. If you use the stock TB, the conections for the coolant hoses can be removed. The throttle and detent cable ends are different on the MPFI car (hence the reason to grab the cables at the junkyard). If you choose to use the Fiero TB you'll need to research that part. The fuel inlet and outlet are on opposite ends of the rail from the turbo engine and the stock turbo fuel lines do not easily connect to the MPFI rail. But a cool advantage of switching fuel rails is that you can use an adjustable FPR for the LT1 instead of sourcing a more expensive part.

4) When shopping for injectors, be sure to understand the rating of the part you're looking at. The Mopar injectors look like they flow substantially more fuel, but they're rated at a higher pressure than the stockers. It turns out that they're not as big as they seem when the pressures are adjusted to match.

5)

Quote:

Assuming all fuel and tuning needs are met, would the 1.8 turbo hold up reliably enough to drive daily??

Ok, now here ya go. The devil's in the details. That question is kinda like asking "assuming we develop low temp personal nuclear fusion reactors, would cheap electricity be a reality?" Most likely, but the trick is developing the reactor.

Try flipping your question. "Will the 1.8 turbo (or even NA) hold up reliably enough to drive daily if the fuel and tuning needs are not met?" You can probably answer that yourself. Tuning is a game of meeting the engine's needs for fuel and spark based on your requirements for power and longevity. A more realistic question might be "Can I produce the power I want while retaining long term reliability?" Considering that you're new to tuning, I wouldn't expect to reach 170 to 200 hp/liter on a high mileage stock engine without problems. If you're daring, start small and work your way up 'till the engine tells you not to go any farther. If you're conservative you should be able to retain the level of reliability that you're looking for.

6) The later 1227749 ecm $58 calibration is well documented. Aftermarket systems can be found inexpensively from time to time and they sometimes offer ease of tuning and setup over the factory ecm. Still, I happen to like using the stock ecm. I can find spares for $25 to $50, they're well documented, and they fit and work like a component with millions of dollars in R+D invested. You can get into tuning for under $200, though the better toys can add to the cost. 2litertubo probably has a realistic number of what it costs to "go first class" with tuning stuff. And the learning curve isn't that bad. Tony's just trying to hit Megaboost levels and generate 400 hp while retaining stock manners and driveability... a trick for anyone with a 4 cylinder car.

7) The 'Woo / Vaux / Opel / Zuki / internal crank sensor system is not (yet) compatible with the OEM engine management. I have posted in the past that it should be, but in reality it uses a Bosch compatible sensing method and requires dedicated hardware.

This thread bounces back and forth between info and conjecture. Wow. Luckily it keeps getting dragged back into the realm of the BTDT folks.

I want to add a few things.

1) The stock boost gauge is notoriously inaccurate. Mine (89 2.0T) read 14 psi at 10 lbs of boost. The tachometer and speedometer suffer the same fate BTW.

2) "No boost on cast pistons." <sigh> Ya know, my 93 Cavalier is proof that many things that "can't be done" can be done if you know what you're doing. Tuned for 87 octane, stock 94 spec OHV 2.2 engine, 9.3ish:1 compression, too small T25 turbo, non-intercooled, at almost 8 psi steady state boost. And it's been built and daily driven for 2 years now. Don't even ask about the number of hours spent tuning.

3) I have the MPFI intake on my turbo Sunbird. The swap can be very easy (I chose to make mine difficult). When locating the intake, also get the fuel lines, fuel rail, FPR, throttle cable, and trans detent cable. It sounds like a bunch of extra parts but should only add an hour or two at most at the wreckers and it will save some work during the conversion. You need to add a few holes to the new intake. One is for the MAP sensor and wastegate boost signal line, another is for the IAT sensor. If you use the stock TB, the conections for the coolant hoses can be removed. The throttle and detent cable ends are different on the MPFI car (hence the reason to grab the cables at the junkyard). If you choose to use the Fiero TB you'll need to research that part. The fuel inlet and outlet are on opposite ends of the rail from the turbo engine and the stock turbo fuel lines do not easily connect to the MPFI rail. But a cool advantage of switching fuel rails is that you can use an adjustable FPR for the LT1 instead of sourcing a more expensive part. I have a complete 2.0T intake and fuel rail as well as a 2.0 MPFI iintake and rail which I could be persuaded to part with.

4) When shopping for injectors, be sure to understand the rating of the part you're looking at. The Mopar injectors look like they flow substantially more fuel, but they're rated at a higher pressure than the stockers. It turns out that they're not as big as they seem when the pressures are adjusted to match.

5)

Quote:

Assuming all fuel and tuning needs are met, would the 1.8 turbo hold up reliably enough to drive daily??

Ok, now here ya go. The devil's in the details. That question is kinda like asking "assuming we develop low temp personal nuclear fusion reactors, would cheap electricity be a reality?" Most likely, but the trick is developing the reactor.

Try flipping your question. "Will the 1.8 turbo (or even NA) hold up reliably enough to drive daily if the fuel and tuning needs are not met?" You can probably answer that yourself. Tuning is a game of meeting the engine's needs for fuel and spark based on your requirements for power and longevity. A more realistic question might be "Can I produce the power I want while retaining long term reliability?" Considering that you're new to tuning, I wouldn't expect to reach 170 to 200 hp/liter on a high mileage stock engine without problems. If you're daring, start small and work your way up 'till the engine tells you it's reached the limit. If you're conservative you should be able to retain the level of reliability that you're looking for.

6) The later 1227749 ecm $58 calibration is well documented. Aftermarket stand alone systems can be found inexpensively from time to time and they sometimes offer ease of tuning and setup over the factory ecm. Still, I happen to like using the stock ecm. I can find spares for $25 to $50, they're well documented, and they fit and work like a component with millions of dollars in R+D invested. You can get into tuning for under $200, though the better toys can add to the cost. 2litertubo probably has a realistic number of what it costs to "go first class" with tuning stuff. And the learning curve isn't that bad. Tony's just trying to hit Megaboost levels and generate 400 hp while retaining stock manners and driveability... a trick for anyone with a 4 cylinder car.

7) The 'Woo / Vaux / Opel / Zuki / internal crank sensor system is not (yet) compatible with the OEM engine management. I have posted in the past that it should be, but in reality it uses a Bosch compatible sensing method and requires dedicated control hardware. The 03 MPFI Sunbird ecm is compatible with the ignition system but as yet there's no tuning software for it.

HTH
-->Slow

Woah! My first double post! Sorry, folks.


->Slow

Thanks all for all the help you have provided. I have since fixed the bent a arm and got the car on the road again. I bought a nice 27" x 5.5" bar and plate intercooler from ebay, hoping to see that show up this week maybe. I also have a 1g dsm BOV i will be installing on the 2.5" charge pipes when i install the IC. I already have most of the connectors, and all the piping needed. The only thing i yet need is the matching samco elbow from the TB. I read the writeup for the fiero TB mod, and it all seems easy enough, but i have a 2.4 and a 2.3HO throttle body on hand. My question is what problems would need to be adressed to fit the 2.4 or 2.3 TB to my 1.8 turbo? I know the IAC and TPS need to be adapted not to mention the throttle cable wheel itself is vastly different.. I have no problem "adapting" or making parts, and after reading the writeup for the v6 fiero tb conversion alot of prepping to the TB is needed to fit it. SO what i am wondering is how much more modding would be needed to fit the 2.3 or 2.4 TB in comparison to the fiero one? The diameter of the tb's is virtually the same but they are vastly different otherwise. I can mod the 2.4 or 2.3 TB to fit all 1.8 sensors as far as i can tell, but would it be worthwhile to try and fit it in comparison to the v6 fiero TB? From what i can tell all lines and senors require modification to fit the fiero TB, so the only additional thing id need to address is the bolt pattern from the quad TB to the 1.8 manifold, but a simple adapter is no big deal to make from my point of view. Has anyone here installed the fiero TB or any other TB on their 1.8 or 2.0?? What about making an adapter to simp[ly pu the 2.3 HO manifold and TB on the 1.8?? I have the manifold on hand as well, and am willing to fab anything needed, but need to know what needs to be modded. Sorry if this seeems to ramble on, but i just got the car on the road again a few days ago and i am giddy to have my turbo car on the road again
Any help that can be provided will be MUCH appreciated.




Dreams do come true....
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