Ok, so I'm new here and hope that I may find some help with this issue I'm having with my Sunbird. I've done all the usual stuff like checking the dizzy, fuel injectors, spark plugs, wires, vacuum lines and whatnot, but the engine won't fire. It will however turn over. Before it refused to stop firing up, it was sputtering and felt like the engine was lacking in power on a wholesale scale. Am I correct to assume the fuel pump may be shot? I'm not trying to spend any cash before I am positively sure what I need to replace. Car is an 84 Sunbird Turbo with an auto trans, if that's of any help.
You can spray starter fluid in the intake and if it tries to start that is usually a sign your fuel pump is bad, checking the fuel pressure is also a good thing to do. If it was slowly losing top end power it sounds like a plugged cat but it should still try to start and run if that is the case. When you checked the plugs did you check for spark ? or just checked the condition of them ? Try starter fluid, then you'll know if it is a fuel problem. Then you'll need to check for spark. A bad coil will usually cause a weak spark and you'll start losing top end power and then it just fails. I had an 84 sunbird and I think they have the four pronged ignition module that goes bad, if I remember correctly, they usually just die, you wouldn't notice anything ahead of time. Figure out if it is a fuel or ignition problem and then start narrowing it down.
I so wish this was posted in the 1st gen section! The ideas posted are solid.I would check your fuel pressure 1st should be 9-13psi,u may have to T in a section off the primary fuel line,being our earlier gen models have NO schrader valve.IF the psi is with specs,I would buy a new coil,and ignition module at the same time.Both are fairly easy to change out.Checking for spark is easy,pull your # 1 plug off distributor and have a extra hand turn it over,No spark means either one of two items are toast.Being the age of the car I am betting the orig coil is still on it,and even ign module.I have replaced mine both and they did not fail,just restoratation work etc.I will get THIS moved to the 1st gen forum soley bc most here are not fluent with the 1st stuff ok.Thanks bob you are spot on with the suggestions!
I will take a look when I get back home, seeing as how I'm outta town right now. Thanks for the suggestions guys.
He has a schrader - 84 Turbo has the FI
Did you change your plug wires one at a time? Any chance they are off by one? I know this guy, wait - it was me.
Thanks paul I was stupid tired when I commented and that actually came to mind(is this fi uh oh no) thoughts that happened.Best thing we have ONE more peeps here to enjoy the FUN!!!!
I still have my original coil
I have been through a few distributors and ICMs though
I bought a test tool that at o'Reilly (when they were Murrays) runs in line with your plug wires and coil wire. It is essentially a plug wire with a light in the middle. Use on coil wire first to see if current is flowing to the distributor, then on one of the plug wires. It helped a lot and only costs like $5.
I just checked it out with a timing light hooked up to the coil wire going to the distributer. It's lighting up like a christmas tree. I fear it's the pump.
loosen your induction tube at the TB, and spray some starting fluid in.
Does it start?
Sounds like your spark is off. Starting fluid should always fire it, even if just for a second or two. Did you replace the distrubutor wires one at a time or all at once? When did it last run and what have you changed since then?
You said your timing light fires, but is it firing at the right time? I am thinking you should check your plug wire routing. I think you are firing in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Happy to talk in a couple of hours if you want to give me a ring 248.703.9620.
I saw ur post of your car.I see your in virginia where are you located dude.I am in NC.And paul thats super to toss out a help line!!! Now if I call you can u send me three million dollars in cash fedex ground?HA
Ok, checked the timing, turns out to be spot on.Checked all the wires again to be sure they were on firmly. Hell, even sprayed starter fluid into the throttle body and nothing. Where is the fuel pump relay? A friend of mine told me it might be that, but I don't know where to begin to look.
If you're spraying starting fluid into the throttle body and it won't start it's probably spark like Paul said. Pull a spark plug wire and check for spark to be sure.
Just out of curiosity does your check engine light in the dash work? When you turn the key on the light should come on, go out and then come back on again solidly. Does it do that? If not you have a prom/ECM problem.
Tony
1987 Sunbird GT turbo convert
Ported intake, Fiero 53 MM TB, 52 lb inj, ported and flowed head, tube header, Mitsu TD06, ARP rod
bolts/head studs, adj cam sprocket, 4" x 12" x 31" FMIC, Paxton AFPR, modified 125 trans/LSD
unit/3.42's, custom chip tuning, Alky Control Methanol injection
13.61 ET at 101.44 mph, 262 WHP/350WTQ
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP roadster, 2.0 turbo w/GMPP exh, CAI and turbo upgrade, 290 hp/325 ft lbs
1969 Olds 442 convert
400 Eng, 200-4R trans, 3.73 posi, power everything, OAI
I've experienced it the hard way - the little engines today don't need much starter fluid to do the job. Shoot too much and they'll be so rich they won't hit a lick!! Back in the day with those big inline 6's & V-8's I'd pour gas in the old carbs.....didn't take no time to suck it down and lean back out. If he's got spark and it's timed right , my guess is he's gotten it too rich. Might hold the pedal to the floor and crank it, see if you get a result.
Ron Love wrote:I saw ur post of your car.I see your in virginia where are you located dude.I am in NC.And paul thats super to toss out a help line!!! Now if I call you can u send me three million dollars in cash fedex ground?HA
Hah! I wish I had 3 million cash. I live in Fredericksburg.
3 million, thats funny.
If I had 3 million I might be on the ferrari site instead
No ferrari is in my site even with the dough.I come to fredricksburg ALL the time.I drive a big truck and we have a small warehouse I bring stuff to (grocery chain) and drop and hook,so then those guys there take it up to the dc and or northern va stores.
Garth and I talked live yesterday, have plans to work through some things later tonight.
Will let you guys know what we come up with.
Just a thought but,I know the oil pressure sender is tied into the fuel system circuit and IF the oil pressure sender does not register oil it will KILL the oil supply.A safety feature built in and have read the schematics enough to know this is a possibility.Granted the fuel pump relay is possible,however this was a thought that came to mind,based on the current issue.OK could even be the oil sender is blocked up,no reading,no fuel,NO start.
As of now, we are at NO SPARK. It will not start with starting fluid. We spoke again yesterday and I sent Garth the service manual pages to work through. He is going to get a inline tester to see if we are losing spark at the coil or distributor and we can go from there...
Love to read the play by play, bound to learn something, always do
Garth asked me where the fuel pump relay was located, and I didn't really know. I think it is on the pass side fender area. Maybe someone can pop up a pict of where it is and what it looks like, I'm curious myself where it's at. Also, is the fan relay turned on by applying primary voltage, or is it by closing the ground? I would like to add a switch in my Pontiac at the dash to turn the fan on and would like to run it to the relay.
Orlen-
send me your email and I will send you the scan I just sent to Garth. It is indeed on the passenger side fender. I can get you the wiring schematic for the fan setup. It gets pretty complicated.
I have the brown shop manual for our cars and the blue 84 supplemental book if you guys need to reference them.
OK, so I've installed a new ICM, and am in the process of trying to pull the old coil out. It's proving to be quite a hassle.
Garth- did you try and fire it after the ICM replacement?
