ESB wrote:Well according to Bill Hahn Jr. the fillings in your teeth may fall out now.
IMO you should only cut the tops of the rear springs.
Stephanie now knows why its bad to cut front springs.
The various sleeve coilover setups for these cars are more dangerous than cutting a spring. stiff ass riding bouncy things.
Well, heh...the ride did get rougher, even if dental work's not required! There's just no other outcome that can occur when one cuts a spring. If you'd like, I'd be happy to expound on the details of why this is.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:35 AM
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
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ok ok, im really not sure how they are unsafe either? ive personally cut springs on all kinds of different cars and never had any issues at all. i personally think they ride better than coilovers any day of the week. i recently aquired a 98 cavalier and cut the springs shortly after puttin wheels on it. of course i have bad strut mounts so they make noise but the car has 312,000 miles on it. perfessional car builders still cut lowering springs to achieve a disired height. havent you ever watched chip foose's overhaulin? some people just cant drop tons of money on suspension, nor do they have credit cards of parents they still live with to pay for it for them. honestly i like how mine rides, pretty close to stock quality if you ask me. if it rode like ass id buy lowering springs but til it does im rollin on my cut ones.
Ok.....All
OTHER cars aside, We are talking about J's here.
1) We don't care if you guys don't understand how it is unsafe (Asking how it is unsafe is the first clue to step away).
2) It is fairly common sense. If you don't understand how suspension works in the first place,
DON'T TOUCH IT.
3) Cut it if you want, Just don't even think about whining when something does happen.
4) Point blank.
IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD THE CORRECT PARTS, DO NOT @!#$ WITH IT.
Does that clear sh!t up for the slow ones??
Not trying to be a dick, But seriously....
phatphred wrote:honestly i like how mine rides, pretty close to stock quality if you ask me. if it rode like ass id buy lowering springs but til it does im rollin on my cut ones
I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to call BS on the close to stock ride. Stock J springs with 300K on them are going to ride like sh!t, Thus making your cut springs feel the same. Like sh!t.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, May 05, 2010 3:10 PM
Quote:
professional car builders still cut lowering springs to achieve a disired height. havent you ever watched chip foose's overhaulin?
we are talking about a econo box, commuter car here. not a sports car.
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
see i guess my point was that you cant even point out what can happen, and if you have any sense you know not to cut your springs in half, and that you cut in moderation. and yea these are commuter cars so why the hell would i spend over a thousand dollars on struts and springs when thats about all most of these cars are worth no matter whats done to them. and call bs on my cars ride quaility all you want. if you want you can come drive it to see for your self. its probably more comfortible than the car your parents bought you! but im not trin to be a dick, but i read peoples post on here and most of you are really closed minded towards people and most of the time you dont help people you just insult them.
What can happen is your spring can slip off the perch, your struts can blow, and either of these can cause you to lose control of your car. Might you get away with it and not have something happen? Possibly. But it's not a smart chance to be taking.
Knowing what you're talking about and trying to explain to people in fifteen different ways why something shouldn't be done is not closed minded. When something is explained to you repeatedly and you clearly don't know what they're doing, and you argue it, you're going to get sh!t for it. Grow some thicker skin.
What blows my mind is how many of you use the logic that doing something unsafe to our cars makes sense because they're cheap, so why spend the money on the good parts? It's not a matter of what the car is worth, it's a matter of what your life and safety, as well as other's on the road is worth. Most of us that are telling you not to cut your springs have plenty of experience with suspension setups, and we do know what the hell we're talking about. Sure, there are plenty of cars that you can cut springs on. There is a reason for it. Old cars (like you refer to Chip Foose working on) have linear rate springs, and no taper to the coil on them like our fronts do. Cutting those is a lot different than cutting ours.
edit: LOL. Just skimming back through the page and noticed a grammatic mess that made no sense.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, May 06, 2010 12:17 PM
The biggie is the spring slipping off the perch. I've seen it happen. As far as blown struts, how many 80's to mid 90's (or later) cars does everyone think are riding around on new struts? Or does the strut police on this site acknowledge the fact that the majority of those cars that we see on the road every day next to us have blown struts, and could use tie rod ends and ball joints to boot. I just did the struts and rear shocks on a '94 cavalier this last weekend and could push the rod down on all of them with my frickin pinky. Car only has 135,000 miles and was floaty as hell. There are PLENTY of cars on the road just like this with FACTORY springs. Every bit as dangerous as a stock spring with a round cut off or Prokits on blown struts. I'd say the biggest problem is the driver. I'm smart enough to know that even though a car like the before mentioned '94 Cavalier has stock springs, care has to be given on bumpy roads because the suspension is worn out and can't properly dampen the road I'm driving on. Now if someone slaps Sportlines on factory blown or soon to be blown struts and drives it like a sports car, I doubt they would have driven the car any different on stock springs with blown struts either. Thus posing just as much a hazard on the road.
phatphred wrote:see i guess my point was that you cant even point out what can happen, and if you have any sense you know not to cut your springs in half, and that you cut in moderation. and yea these are commuter cars so why the hell would i spend over a thousand dollars on struts and springs when thats about all most of these cars are worth no matter whats done to them. and call bs on my cars ride quaility all you want. if you want you can come drive it to see for your self. its probably more comfortible than the car your parents bought you! but im not trin to be a dick, but i read peoples post on here and most of you are really closed minded towards people and most of the time you dont help people you just insult them.
Ummm Try again buddy.
Unlike you
Profile wrote: broke white boy
I have bought every car I owned
myself (The list is way longer than what is in my profile). I work a g
ood job full time,
And live on my own. My parents bought me
none of that.
You want to know the funniest thing of all? The car in my sig is my
BEATER!
I have had many J's with varying mileage and can gaurantee you, without even seeing it, that your car rides like sh!t.
And again, No, You are way wrong. We try to help you by telling you that cutting springs is not the way to go and you guys get all defensive.
Keep being ignorant and enjoy working at wal-mart
Some things in life will never change.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Thursday, May 06, 2010 4:12 AM
I will respond more later, but older cars had linear springs so when you cut them the spring rates remain the same. You can do that on linear spring and those shows that cut springs are doing it with linear springs (Same rate through out the spring). Some shows that lower newer cars use lowering spring and do not cut if you noticed. Our cars like newer car have progressive springs. So the spring rate is not the same for the entire spring. That is why the spring has tighter curls on top and wider at the bottom, when a spring has variable spring rate when you cut it you change the entire spring rate of the suspension which is bad.
2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time
Quiklilcav wrote:ohvrolla wrote:The biggie is the spring slipping off the perch. I've seen it happen. As far as blown struts, how many 80's to mid 90's (or later) cars does everyone think are riding around on new struts? Or does the strut police on this site acknowledge the fact that the majority of those cars that we see on the road every day next to us have blown struts, and could use tie rod ends and ball joints to boot. I just did the struts and rear shocks on a '94 cavalier this last weekend and could push the rod down on all of them with my frickin pinky. Car only has 135,000 miles and was floaty as hell. There are PLENTY of cars on the road just like this with FACTORY springs. Every bit as dangerous as a stock spring with a round cut off or Prokits on blown struts. I'd say the biggest problem is the driver. I'm smart enough to know that even though a car like the before mentioned '94 Cavalier has stock springs, care has to be given on bumpy roads because the suspension is worn out and can't properly dampen the road I'm driving on. Now if someone slaps Sportlines on factory blown or soon to be blown struts and drives it like a sports car, I doubt they would have driven the car any different on stock springs with blown struts either. Thus posing just as much a hazard on the road.
You have to remember that the higher spring rates of lowering springs (or cut springs) are going to cause more of a problem with blown struts than factory springs will. Also, the likelihood that the lowering springs will blow the struts after they are put on is greater than if the stock springs are left alone on there.
Also, all discussion of why not to use stock struts or cut your springs aside, just because there are other idiots out there doing something dangerous doesn't mean it should be condoned here in a discusssion about the proper way to do something.
By no means I'm I saying it's the proper way to do something, but all you hear is people preaching how you're going to bounce off the road and kill someone when lowering springs are put on stock struts. I don't see anyone posting on the 1st and 2nd gen forum to please change their old worn out struts before they kill someone in a fiery crash even though it's still a viable safety issue. Now if someone without a lot of cash picks up a earlier model third gen for $1000-$1500 you know as well as I do most of them aren't looking to spend half the cost of the car or more to do springs and proper struts. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is.
My parents bought my car. Oh well. Better go kill myself.
TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:My parents bought my car. Oh well. Better go kill myself.
Truth, You aren't cool now.
I just think it's funny when all people have to say is "your parents bought your car" without knowing any real information
I just read this entire thread LOL, I might try going for cutting just one (1) coil out of each spring, if I just do this to my rear, will my car be sitting up at a angle in the front?
no... it will spontaneously combust providing a great heat source for these cookies everyone keeps referring to
I have Oreo's!!!!
I need a new sig.
Cookies?
________________________________________.
Still not low enough for a signature.
Bottom line don't do a damned thing unless your going to upgrade struts.
I had H&Rs with one coil cut from them, had them on my cavy with stock shocks (new replacments.) almost 5 years. Only time it sucked was on really crappy concrete roads, which was the same before they were modified.
And those of you worrying about being on the road with someone with cut springs REALLY need to take a good look at what else is on the road with you, Modified cavalier is the last of your worries lol.
My GFs sunfire with road magnets and BLOWN Dspecs on the rear is a hell of alot jumpier than my cut spring setup EVER was. Just sayin.
Spencer wrote:
My GFs sunfire with road magnets and BLOWN Dspecs on the rear is a hell of alot jumpier than my cut spring setup EVER was. Just sayin.
What I was saying earlier in the thread was that the cut rear factory springs on AGX's were less jumpy than the prokit. Not advocating, just sharing my experience. They were on for like 30k miles too.
Spencer wrote:My GFs sunfire with road magnets and BLOWN Dspecs on the rear is a hell of alot jumpier than my cut spring setup EVER was. Just sayin.
Wow, so a car with blown struts was more bouncy than one with non-blown struts. This means cutting springs on our cars is OK?
Interesting logic.
It's okay to have a trampoline like suspension =)
no thats not what i meant lol. theyre were about the same before.
o crap its still going??
Cutting ther jbody springs one loop in the rear is not going to hurt, but as always modifying is dangerous, the top loop is supposedly comfort ring it doesnt really do too much as the remaining coils will become closer together with the extra weight and actually raise your pre-load---thank you slowboys racing, as well as hetrick off road
cutting the front is stupid but possible...if you have the SECOND design strut mount as there is no real way for the spring to off the perch once the pressure is released, the first design is real trick though, I recently switched over from the first design...but I didn't cut my springs..thats dunb I have a set of tein's
