Neon disc swap how to - Page 28 - Suspension and Brake Forum

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Re: Neon disc swap how to
Sunday, November 01, 2009 5:46 AM
Awesome news and a tribute to Mr. Dearmans philosophy of doing it right.
Thanks Joshua.


Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!






Re: Neon disc swap how to
Monday, November 02, 2009 3:52 PM
SLO CAV (the autoxing one) wrote:

well after having the rear swap done for about 6 months now i was worried about my alignment out back... well i went to get it checked and i must say... mister josh dearman is a heck of a machinist.. my driver side camber was -0.1 degrees and my toe on that side was a little high but they said i would be fine it was 0.38 degrees.... my passenger side was way better than that.. camber was -0.5 degrees and the toe was 0.18 degrees... so incase anyone was wondering this man knows how to machine.... the guy at the alignment shop was very very impressed when i told him that they had to be machined a little.... so hats off to you josh.. thanks for doing a great job....


Thanks for the plug.....much appreciated. When I started doing these I was afraid of this becoming an issue so I made a jig that squared up my mill relative to the ends of the bed ways at three positions on the ways. I started at 8", got within visual limits(typically 0.001" run on dial gauge), then went out 20"(same criteria), then the tips of the bed(usually couldn't get better than 0.001" but I made sure to split the difference between the sides). Most shops just use the standard 8" dial gauge attachment and call it done....I knew that wouldn't be good enough for me...and you guys too. So really, what you see there is the total limitations of my equipment actually...could do no better. Glad my best is good enough....

If I could do it all over again, and maybe someday I will(the GP process I mean)... I regret not showing any of the tooling/processes or even any shots of my QC torque test bench I used post machining process, probly would have helped a lot of people out to get them done by other machine shops or do themselves. Someday I plan to run another GP....and if I do, I will definitely make sure to document it all, hopefully in video start to finish...yard pull, hot tank cleaning, machine prep, jigs, machining, post process QC(especially the torque test, that @!#$ is awesome), then tie into my video I already got with some holes filled in...... That would be awesome.

Some may be wondering, "why would you do that, you'd give away any tricks to the trade"...to them I'd say: Once you saw the process I go thru 'start to finish' you would know there is nobody else who would be so meticulous to do it right. I guarantee it would end up being a massive advertisement to buy my work rather than a 'ok, now I will go and steel the idea and go run my own GP'. I knew all well going into this that I was up against a mob of a crowd(a witch hunt if you will) for shoty work.....I made long strides to ensure I wouldn't be the hunted.

Doing the math, your .38 degrees gives a run of 0.0006" on the face of the bracket side to side and 0.0022" out 20"...kinda higher then I'd like but there is heat expansion that happens when things get hot...ie: end mill, mill bearings, quill, the neon bracket itself, ect. So really I would still call that a good success....but I can say the run wasn't influenced by my mill head being off...that's for sure. Fixed error that is preventable = LAZY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, November 02, 2009 4:52 PM

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Tuesday, November 03, 2009 1:19 AM
Yeah on that side for some odd reason it felt like one bearing bolt was so very little bit off it had a bit of resistance when I tightened it. Almost like one hole was ever so slightly off. But it went on and flush so idk.

The guy said he could shim it but I would need longer bearing bolts. He said 0.38 would be ok as long as I rotate the tires. So I'm not worried about it since he said it was ok.

His software had the exceptable limit on a stock Cavy at 0.20 if that helps.



Re: Neon disc swap how to
Tuesday, November 03, 2009 8:33 AM
SLO CAV (the autoxing one) wrote:

Yeah on that side for some odd reason it felt like one bearing bolt was so very little bit off it had a bit of resistance when I tightened it. Almost like one hole was ever so slightly off. But it went on and flush so idk.

The guy said he could shim it but I would need longer bearing bolts. He said 0.38 would be ok as long as I rotate the tires. So I'm not worried about it since he said it was ok.

His software had the exceptable limit on a stock Cavy at 0.20 if that helps.



Yeah, those damn bolt holes are by far the most inaccurate part of my brackets..... I pressed drill guides into a wheel bearing and cut the hat off the bearing and used that to drill the holes. I did this also since it helped me verify angle of the caliper when mounted on the car too. The biggest problem with this process is when the bearing tries to walk, it always walks inward away from the sides(which isn't 'good' but the outside faces of the bolt holes are where they should be and this is where the bracket translates forces to the bolts anyway...the inside of the bolt faces matters little. This, if in an extreme case, can lead to almost a slightly oval/slotted looking hole(about 0.015") or so run. This is also what forced me to torque test these brackets too....I got pretty paranoid about it.


"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:03 AM
has anyone tried using a 2000 dodge intrepid caliper bracket? looks like it may not work for the bolt holes that need drilled out for the jbody even tho it looks pretty much the same. some of the 99 intrepids had the same bracket as 2000. 2000 had the dust shield on the outside of the car/inside of the bracket not on the backside of the bracket towards the trunk. have 30 days to return the calipers and brackets. will post some pics up later tonight or tomorrow.


my carDomain updated 10/31/09 Forged and Supercharged


Re: Neon disc swap how to
Sunday, November 08, 2009 2:02 PM
s1lver_N1p wrote:

has anyone tried using a 2000 dodge intrepid caliper bracket? looks like it may not work for the bolt holes that need drilled out for the jbody even tho it looks pretty much the same. some of the 99 intrepids had the same bracket as 2000. 2000 had the dust shield on the outside of the car/inside of the bracket not on the backside of the bracket towards the trunk. have 30 days to return the calipers and brackets. will post some pics up later tonight or tomorrow.


mine


mine


vs

how-to


as you can see the 95-99's are flat to the left of the axle hole. my 2000's are not.


mine


vs

how-to



my carDomain updated 10/31/09 Forged and Supercharged


Re: Neon disc swap how to
Sunday, November 08, 2009 4:00 PM
I tried those brackets myself, and wasn't happy with how little meat was left after machining. the worst part is where the ABS sensor was is narrower.



Re: Neon disc swap how to
Monday, November 09, 2009 6:16 AM
^This is true...but there is no little to no force where you are talking about. I'll see if I can dig up the FEA I did on these. There is still plenty of strength if it is done right.


"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:29 PM
I haven't posted in awhile... I did this swap couple years ago, left my stock E-brake lever & cable and it would not work right all the time. I came up with a decent fix using the neon E-brake setup and keeping stock lever. I got 2 of the neon cables with the bracket for the 2 cables. I dremeled off the bracket on 1 of the cables. Removed stock cable from the the lever and installed the bracket-less neon cable. I bought two $0.50 cable connectors from a hardware store to connect the 2 neon cables together. Just adjusted the length of the cable and re tightened the cable lock till they worked.



I also had to dremel off part of the stock brake lever bracket on passenger side to allow the cable to slide better.



Seems to work just fine.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:09 PM
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Friday, April 02, 2010 9:46 PM
I've been through this forum plenty of times trying to figure out if intrepid brackets will work...can someone help me out?


Oh s***, he has two fire extinguishers in there!
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Sunday, April 11, 2010 3:41 PM
They will work

Re: Neon disc swap how to
Monday, April 19, 2010 1:32 PM
dumb question and i honestly do not feel like looking, what ever happen to the Wilwood rear brake kit, i thought that they were going to come out with one eventualluy? Obviously that got canned i guess. Also the SSBC rear brake kit is on sale right now on Summits website for 600 dollars.
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Saturday, May 29, 2010 5:19 PM
Just because I don't have time to read through all 28 pages... Has anyone in the Phoenix area done this swap, or a similar swap that could lend technical expertise?
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:49 AM
I'm trying to get the e-brake hooked up, this should be straight forward and easy but...
when I put the actuator in its too far to the rear of the car, its a good 2" with the cable inserted . this means it won't hook into the shoes. I tried it two different ways hooked in the the "loop" and in between the spring and the "loop", no dice. did any one else run into this problem. this in on a Seabring bracket, and seems to have the same spacing as the Neon bracket.




Re: Neon disc swap how to
Friday, August 20, 2010 10:24 AM
Good luck cinpro. I used the neon brackets and the ebrake works fine. I did just like Josh did in that how to video.



Re: Neon disc swap how to
Thursday, September 16, 2010 6:33 PM
is anybody selling the neon caliper brackets already machined?


'03 Sunfire 190k
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Thursday, September 16, 2010 7:56 PM
Brandon Lammons wrote:

is anybody selling the neon caliper brackets already machined?

Not at the present time.
There was possible talk of it again but no word on that at the moment.
Keep your eye's peeled to the forums though.



Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!





Re: Neon disc swap how to
Thursday, September 16, 2010 8:29 PM
is there anybody that can machine it them sells and send it back?


'03 Sunfire 190k
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Saturday, September 18, 2010 4:03 PM
i found another beretta owner that is useing the dodge daytona backing plates. i myself will try out the Lebaron GTC rear disc set up. with these 2 have the caliper brackets are incorperated into the plate .


ShowOff Customz
03 Cavalier
73 Beetle
68 Fairlane 500


Re: Neon disc swap how to
Saturday, September 18, 2010 4:31 PM
Ok, question time, I already have the neon rears on my car, and I should have thought about this before, but I was just wodering if the stock 15" steelies will fit them, I have my 17"s on for the summer, and I don't know if the 15s will clear it. I'm sure it is mentioned here somewhere, but I really don't want to have to search through all 26 pages, however if everyone pitches a fit about me just asking I will look through.

Thanks again everyone who has made this swap possible.



Re: Neon disc swap how to
Saturday, September 18, 2010 4:35 PM
I hate to say it but your best bet is to read through the whole thing.
Twice.
That's exactly what I had to do to get my answers since there's so much information in this thread.
Read it once and reread it again to fully grasp all of its content.

I'm not trying to be a dick here but just stating the facts about this sticky.
If you really want to know something, you'll do the research to get what you want and good luck man.


Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!






Re: Neon disc swap how to
Saturday, September 18, 2010 5:25 PM
or just take out one of you 15s and see if it fits, easy

.



Re: Neon disc swap how to
Monday, September 27, 2010 11:50 AM
Okay did a quick little look over the 28 pages in this thread & did not notice it, then again it was a quick look searching for certain key words >.<

My question with all this, has anyone done a full on 60-0mph test with the rear disc swap to see if it is a better stopping distance, or if it just feels like it because of pedal feel & brake fade over time? Motor Trend rated the 2003 Cavalier with a 132ft Stopping distance & they did say it had noticeable brake fade...
Also does the Disc conversion add more weight to the rear, remove some or pretty much stay the same? Thanks for any help you wonderful people can provide
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Monday, September 27, 2010 12:04 PM
Discs are heavier than drums according to some and according to sum, less efficient than drums.
I prefer the discs over drums any day so that's why I did the swap.

I can't give you a heads up on the stopping distance since I've got a big brake kit up front so to say it stops better with factory fronts, don't know.
But I will say if you do go with a big brake kit up front, your stopping distance will improve dramatically.
Brake fade is nill also but the actual factory setup is the worst ever.
Twice I had complete brake fade in which I had no brakes because of it. The fronts glazed so bad that I had to run off road to stop from going past my turn in the middle of the road.
Better rotors, better pads, and stainless steel lines does wonders though for the stock setup even with the drums.
Stopping distance was much better and surprised me several times when I had to make some immediate stops that if I still had factory setup, I'd have hit the car in front of me.

Change your brake fluid to at least a Dot4 or go with a high grade fluid such as Motul to improve the effects of fade and fluid getting hot.
Good luck with your setup.


Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!





Re: Neon disc swap how to
Monday, September 27, 2010 12:19 PM
I have noticeably less brake fade with just drilled and slotted rotors in the front.



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