Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly? - Suspension and Brake Forum

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Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Monday, March 28, 2011 8:18 AM
Hi All!

Im a car audio competitor, and i put ALOT of wieght in my trunk. My question is are there springs or struts that are a little more beefier then stock that will keep the ride height of the car normal when some one puts about 300 LBS into the trunk? for reference:

before system....


after system.....






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Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Monday, March 28, 2011 10:35 AM
You could try coilovers. That's my only thought.... I'd like to know if there is somethign else to help with that kind of problem myself. Just out of curiosity really....




Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Monday, March 28, 2011 10:51 AM
You can get stiffer coil over springs. 500lb and I think 1000lb, but they are designed for drag racing. Tein and others I believe carry them for their coil-overs.





Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Monday, March 28, 2011 11:50 AM
-MD- Enforcer wrote:

You can get stiffer coil over springs. 500lb and I think 1000lb, but they are designed for drag racing. Tein and others I believe carry them for their coil-overs.


theres a tein dealer not too far from me, im gunna go talk to them today

thanks





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Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Tuesday, March 29, 2011 2:26 AM
could also put in a set of spring helpers? (pickup truck overload airbags) wouldnt take much just a bit of fabing to plates but that would be your best option as they can carry around 5,000lbs each usually. Dont need a compressor just keep one of them small 12 volt air pumps with you. I drive a 1 ton ford 250 with about 3,000 lbs payload all day and you would hardly know its there.
Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:53 AM
Vincent Woodward wrote:

could also put in a set of spring helpers? (pickup truck overload airbags) wouldnt take much just a bit of fabing to plates but that would be your best option as they can carry around 5,000lbs each usually. Dont need a compressor just keep one of them small 12 volt air pumps with you. I drive a 1 ton ford 250 with about 3,000 lbs payload all day and you would hardly know its there.






Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Tuesday, March 29, 2011 6:02 PM
so.... the dealer i was gunna go to i cant find and they wont awnser their phone... how can i get these springs online?



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Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:01 PM
who are you talking to exactly about which springs?? I also dont recommend packing that kind of weight around all the time... the bags may be able to take it but your "axle" and bearings definitely wont.
Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Wednesday, March 30, 2011 6:36 AM
Vincent Woodward wrote:

who are you talking to exactly about which springs?? I also dont recommend packing that kind of weight around all the time... the bags may be able to take it but your "axle" and bearings definitely wont.


this isnt an option... I need some advice on how to maintain ride height, and the advice needs to be somthing other then "you shouldnt have that stuff int here anyways"



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Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:08 AM
Don't know what your price range is but you could get custom made springs, should be a shop that makes springs if you live in a bigger city. We had to do this at work when I guy wanted to put a mobile office/lab on the back of a brand new dodge ram 1500, it was too new at the time so you couldn't even order aftermarket lift springs, and there wasn't any room that i could see for air bads and this was the first year dodge went to coil springs in the rear of their 1500's. With the lab and equipment, it was an added +1500lbs in the back, plus it was really bouncy in the back with the 1/2 ton springs, took the springs out, got all the measurements we needed for them, called the springs shop up and gave them all info and said we need springs that can handle an extra 1500lbs and the way truck is now, the back end dropped like 4", they made new springs and it supported the extra weight and was not as bouncy anymore.

here is the stock spring info from rockauto.com
Inside Diameter=4.231" Wire Diameter=.515" Free Height=13.27" Load height=11"

are you on all stock suspension too? might be worth it to look into a better set of struts, even if its just for the back, adjustable struts might be nice to have...


2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires - **SOLD**
2014 Kia Forte Koup SX 6spd - 1.6L Turbo - My new car
2015 Kia Sorento EX V6 AWD - Wifes Car

Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Wednesday, March 30, 2011 8:19 AM
Anton Miller (PPC) wrote:

Vincent Woodward wrote:

who are you talking to exactly about which springs?? I also dont recommend packing that kind of weight around all the time... the bags may be able to take it but your "axle" and bearings definitely wont.


this isnt an option... I need some advice on how to maintain ride height, and the advice needs to be somthing other then "you shouldnt have that stuff int here anyways"

Although it isn't an option (for you), but he is not blowing smoke up your ass either. These cars hold a certain amount of weight; look on the label on your driver's door to find exact weight. Going over could sacrifice the integrity of the unit-body, could pop your tires, give you a lot longer stopping distance, strain the engine, and so much more. Basically put you in jeopardy. If you don't have that label, I think the car holds around 700-800lbs, that would be passangers and cargo too.



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Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Wednesday, March 30, 2011 10:27 AM
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:

Anton Miller (PPC) wrote:

Vincent Woodward wrote:

who are you talking to exactly about which springs?? I also dont recommend packing that kind of weight around all the time... the bags may be able to take it but your "axle" and bearings definitely wont.


this isnt an option... I need some advice on how to maintain ride height, and the advice needs to be somthing other then "you shouldnt have that stuff int here anyways"

Although it isn't an option (for you), but he is not blowing smoke up your ass either. These cars hold a certain amount of weight; look on the label on your driver's door to find exact weight. Going over could sacrifice the integrity of the unit-body, could pop your tires, give you a lot longer stopping distance, strain the engine, and so much more. Basically put you in jeopardy. If you don't have that label, I think the car holds around 700-800lbs, that would be passangers and cargo too.


we are good if its 7-800 lbs, caus ei only wheigh about 250 and the stuff wil be around 300 (rarely ever drive with a passenger...), so i should be good, just dont want my car sagging like the one pictured...



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Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:55 PM
Anton Miller (PPC) wrote:

Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:

Anton Miller (PPC) wrote:

Vincent Woodward wrote:

who are you talking to exactly about which springs?? I also dont recommend packing that kind of weight around all the time... the bags may be able to take it but your "axle" and bearings definitely wont.


this isnt an option... I need some advice on how to maintain ride height, and the advice needs to be somthing other then "you shouldnt have that stuff int here anyways"

Although it isn't an option (for you), but he is not blowing smoke up your ass either. These cars hold a certain amount of weight; look on the label on your driver's door to find exact weight. Going over could sacrifice the integrity of the unit-body, could pop your tires, give you a lot longer stopping distance, strain the engine, and so much more. Basically put you in jeopardy. If you don't have that label, I think the car holds around 700-800lbs, that would be passangers and cargo too.


we are good if its 7-800 lbs, caus ei only wheigh about 250 and the stuff wil be around 300 (rarely ever drive with a passenger...), so i should be good, just dont want my car sagging like the one pictured...




I took a look at my tags this afternoon and your maxing it out 840lbs payload capacity. Driven like that everyday is going to be hard on it. Air springs fabbed in is your cheapest most effective way to carry that weight. with 10lbs of air in them you wouldnt even know your trunk was loaded. A fabbed setup would only cost you about 600 bucks, and like I said those are good for 5000lbs a piece. Another is put air ride in, if I recal andysautosport.com sells for 2200 bucks?? But I highly recommend asking an inspection facility or looking up the laws in your state/province about suspension modifications. Here in BC is very difficult to do an air bag suspension if he system involves relocation or removal of any of the system.

Like has been said you may be in your GVWR but packing that weight around especially if your on the highway a lot you run the chance of bearing failure. Im a commercial driver as well and trust me i've seen my share of vehicles wrecked with the entire tire assembly missing. Especially holiday trailers, seriously does no one ever service the wheel bearings before the tire comes flying off at 55mph?? Mind you it was slightly commicial to see cause I knew what was coming....
Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Wednesday, March 30, 2011 8:20 PM
i maintenance my car almost every day lol, inspect everything, it is a 14 year old car now... so.... yea... air shocks huh? and i live in mn and i dont believe we have any super strict rules...



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Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:25 PM
http://www.andysautosport.com/chevrolet/2000_2002_cavalier/suspension/air_suspension/air_bag_lowering_kits/air_lift/

A good option if you do intend to keep the car as it is a fairly expensive fix. But the good part is you will never have to worry about loading as the system maintains the ride height constantly. And you get a bit of a tricked ride, and while at a show you can sit it on the floor.. whatever tickles yer pickle.
Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:54 AM
I don't understand why everyone is making a big deal over 300lbs in the trunk and 250lb driver(550lb total), thats what an average family weighs together, maybe they weigh even more (Me, my wife and 5month girl and stroller/car seat, etc weighs +400lbs, if we had 2 older kids that weighed 70-100lbs each, we would be at that 550 mark easily). I am not saying there wont be extra wear and tear on the car, there will be, but that is NOT saying the car can't handle it. That "840lb" payload number is a safe number too, most things are under rated by the factory, so it can/should handle 840lbs no problem, that doesn't mean if you put 850lbs or even 900lbs that the wheel bearings are going to fail and you will crash, Yes there will be more wear on the car then if you just had a 150lb driver, but the car should still handle it. At the +850lbs, thats when it starts to be too much weight, "starts". Also, wheel bearings can fail on a empty 1000lb trailer, weight adds more wear to them but as long as the car is well maintained/inspected regularly, it should be fine.


2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires - **SOLD**
2014 Kia Forte Koup SX 6spd - 1.6L Turbo - My new car
2015 Kia Sorento EX V6 AWD - Wifes Car

Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Thursday, March 31, 2011 1:39 PM
ok, lets do it this way, can i buy beefed up rear strut and shock assemblies for my 1997 chevy cavalier? and where?



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Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Thursday, March 31, 2011 1:58 PM
You can ask Benham in the GP for the STDs since he said you can work with different rates he might be able to offer you a beefier setup.




Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:04 PM
What did you want to spend?

I would upgrade the struts to atleast Tokico HP Blues or better, AGX or D specs are adjustable.

But for springs if you want the ride height to go back up a little, Custom springs, since all springs for the cavalier are either stock or lowering. Could find a local shop or maybe Eibach or someone else can make you springs?? If you are cheap, some jeep guys use coil spacers to lift their jeeps up a bit.

Another option to look at and I am not an experient so I am not sure how much of a lift this will give you, but you could try grand am springs, I would guess they would give you atleast an inch or inch and half but not sure, would have to try it out unless someone else would know?
here are the specs from rockauto:
99 Grand AM 2.4l
Rear:
-- Inside Diameter=4.111" Wire Diameter=.473" Free Height=15.63" Load height=10"

Z24 Cav.
Rear:
-- Inside Diameter=4.19" Wire Diameter=.468" Free Height=14.25" Load height=10"



Try googleing places and shop around, but here are some sites
rockauto.com
importrp.com
jbodyperformance.com
carcustoms.net
raceinspired.com


2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires - **SOLD**
2014 Kia Forte Koup SX 6spd - 1.6L Turbo - My new car
2015 Kia Sorento EX V6 AWD - Wifes Car

Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Saturday, April 02, 2011 6:34 PM
If your State/province allows install an air suspension, all weight carrying and ride height issues solved. True, could also use spring spacers to bring the right height back up, but doesn't really solve any suspension issue as you now just have that less of practical suspension when hittin them bumps.

Yes the Cavalier is rated to 840lbs net load. but that is just a number, you could walk into your insurance office and get it insured for even more yet, but all factors come into play, bearing type, tire loading and so forth. As you so pointed out you only have 500lbs ish in the car but it sags that badly? but another issue commonly missed is that 840lbs does not include fuel... so thats another 90lbs. If these cars didnt have such a high torque curve I wouldnt worry about the engine at all, but constantly packing that weight will wear on the motor. if your using synthetic all the better but change a little more often. Like myself I dont do a lot of miles anymore with it so I change 3 months or about 1600miles.
Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Sunday, April 03, 2011 4:04 AM
Wow. This is out of control. Custom wound springs? Air bags? WTF?

The easiest and cheapest way to do this is- a USED coil over setup (only for the perches and threaded sleeves) and then buy some linear rate 2.5" springs from any of the hundreds of circle track dealers out there. The stock springs are what? 100lb/in? Get some 200-300 lb/in ones and call it a day. Maybe $200 on the high side. (FYI- 99% of aftermarket coil-over kits use either 2.25" or 2.5" dia springs, and there are hundreds of rates and lengths out there from tons of manufacturers, at much cheaper prices than the typical FWD performance places everyone links to.)

If you want to go with all new stuff? Call Ground Control, tell them what you have for weight, and then simply order the rear setup only. You're looking at like $300 all told.

Either way, you still need some better struts than stock, so keep that in mind.




Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Monday, April 04, 2011 11:06 AM
ok now we are talking sooooo, where do i find these things? will any better strut work? and what do you recomend? i know my struts arent the best right now and need ot be replaced, so i figure i might as well buy beefier ones.

PS that car pictured isnt mine, mine doesnt sag quite that much, but it does sag a good amount...



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Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Tuesday, April 05, 2011 8:44 PM
You can try looking through the classifieds or craigslist for the sleeves and perches. Then Google "circle track parts" and just keep looking around until you find the springs you need. You're going to need some of the higher end struts just based on spring rates alone. I don't know all of the options out there for 3rd gens, so some searching around in here will point you in the right direction.



Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:20 AM
James Cahill wrote:

Wow. This is out of control. Custom wound springs? Air bags? WTF?

The easiest and cheapest way to do this is- a USED coil over setup (only for the perches and threaded sleeves) and then buy some linear rate 2.5" springs from any of the hundreds of circle track dealers out there. The stock springs are what? 100lb/in? Get some 200-300 lb/in ones and call it a day. Maybe $200 on the high side. (FYI- 99% of aftermarket coil-over kits use either 2.25" or 2.5" dia springs, and there are hundreds of rates and lengths out there from tons of manufacturers, at much cheaper prices than the typical FWD performance places everyone links to.)

If you want to go with all new stuff? Call Ground Control, tell them what you have for weight, and then simply order the rear setup only. You're looking at like $300 all told.

Either way, you still need some better struts than stock, so keep that in mind.


Thank you. It's as if nobody else knows this secret (maybe that's what's making it a secret). You can peruse Summit racing's website and find a plethora of 2.5" coil over springs in various lengths and spring rates. There Summit brand is like $35 a spring, might could get springs cheaper from a circle track dealer. I'd looked into this briefly a couple years ago when considering a coilover setup without the gawd awful high spring rate.




Re: Beefier/Heavier Rear Struts and shock assembly?
Thursday, October 11, 2012 6:50 AM
ok, bumping this. i know old as EFFF! lol

im going to be putting a great amount of weight in the back.... now my cousin says to get a single air bag that you pump up yourself for the middle of the axel (or 2 spread out a little) to adjust ride height. and i was asked if the front springs are swapable into the rears? as likely those are rated for more weight...

im goign to be putting roughly 500 lbs in the back seat this spring. it will not be a daily driver, but must mkae 10+ hour trips one way lol



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