1999 N body Aluminum knuckle swap question - Suspension and Brake Forum

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1999 N body Aluminum knuckle swap question
Thursday, April 21, 2011 3:35 AM
Alright, I've gone through the NWF sticky and finally found that Joshua Dearman posted up on page 5 roughly 1/3 down the page for the BCA pn# 513137 Hub assembly that has holes drilled in the hub for both 5x100 and 5x114. Therefore you can just knock out the studs and put ones in the 5x100 pattern so we can use the stock j lower control arms and brakes with the Aluminum N body knuckes while keeping the stock jbody axles Correct? Or would I still need the outter axles off of a Malibu? My last question is has anyone done this yet? If not I might look into this myself as I'm going to be putting some new suspension parts on the cav in the near future and wanted to do this all in one shot.

HUB BEARING LINK

I'm basically looking to reduce sprung weight on the suspension without picking up and modding the N body lower control arms right now, as I don't feel like tracking down a pair and getting them machined down. ( Before anyone asks...yes I used to have them on my car a little while ago but sold them when I had OEM camber mount issues when needing a dd about a year ago, thats the cliffnotes.) Any input that people have is welcomed.








Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:22 AM




Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:22 AM
OK......I went through the NWF sticky again. If I read everyting correctly the posted hub part # from Josh turned out to be 5x110 not 5x100. Stock manual J axles won't work with N body hubs, hower stock 2.4/5speed manual axles from an N body have the same inner spline count as a J and are the same length so you can use N body replacement axles without having to build a hybrid axle for use with the N body hubs....






Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:40 AM
yep but remember only the 99 n-body's had those specific axles because thats the only year they had the 5spd ones we need. problem is its going to be somewhat difficult to find a set used so best bet is new, which arent TOO horribly priced but most people would rather just find used to try and save cash.

i still wish someone would come up with a way to mount a j-body wheel bearing to the n-body knuckle.

in my book the best and easiest setup is the 99 n-body axles, n-body aluminum knuckles and brakes (which are a tad larger than j-bod's as well as use aluminum calipers), and UNMODDED n-body aluminum control arms then either tein ss's or just a camber plate with it moved over to match (or you could just slot the strut tower holes). cheap, easy to find most parts, bigger brakes, light components, beefier wheel bearings/axles. only problem is, gotta get the wheel bearings to 5X100 if you wanna use ur specific rims that lack both bolt patterns.

im right there with you man, i love the n-body aluminum knuckles!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:41 AM


Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:50 AM
I was hoping you would respond. I am infact planning on Tein ss's by the end of may. IF....I can't find my exact Nippoon rim in n body bolt pattern, I might just sell my rims finally after 4years..who knows... I might gather the parts for the swap and keep an eye out for some dual pattern rims I like.






Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:17 AM
z yaaaa wrote:

i still wish someone would come up with a way to mount a j-body wheel bearing to the n-body knuckle.


IIRC, the H body and N body bearing are the same dimension, so this should work. Uses factory J bearings and axles. You lose ABS, since the tone ring actually fits inside the spindle, unless you want to figure a way to mount the sensor-

5x100 bearing on H body spindle

.



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:31 AM
Isn't the H body like old monza's.....what year hub had the same pattern if you can remember off hand?






Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:31 AM
i know theres debate but from the research ive done n body axles are a little longer. napa prolink gives the demensions for there parts and it does list n body as longer. weather it will be a problem or not i dont know.
Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:34 AM
Ray- do you know if they base their measurements when the axle is compressed like when installed on a car or when they are laying side by side on the ground? Also are you looking at axle length for moded or unmoded control arms?






Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:36 AM



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:17 AM
ok, thanks to the tip from James Cahill I looked into a 99 bonneville front wheel hub and a 99 malibu front hub on rockauto.com because they list stats on wheel bearing for the car your looking up.

Now if I 'm reading this correctly the 3 bolt flange has a bolt circle diameter of 5.712 inches on both the malibu and the Bonni, BUT the Bonni (H-body) has the 5x100 bolt pattern, that we can use. Now the differences between the two is .2 of an inch on the flange thickness thats listed on rockauto.com and they share a 70.1mm hub diameter as well.

I'll see what else I can dig up, and I'll post my findings. Feel free to add any info you guys find as well.


<LOOKED INTO RIMS FOR A 99 BONNI AND IT IS 5X115 RIMS...SO NO GO>

I'll need James Cahill to respond with what year H-body wheel bearing hub he used to keep his 5x100 pattern on his 2nd gen....I'm kinda stumped trying to look back on bonni rims from 90-99.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:31 AM



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Thursday, April 21, 2011 8:48 AM
ok I might have found another possible car a 1996 CHRYSLER CONCORDE LX 3.3L it has the same 5.721 flange diameter and 5x100 bolt pattern as found on discounttire.com for a 15inch rim search but I don't know how that will interact with the stock abs on our j's.







Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Thursday, April 21, 2011 10:37 AM
i ditched my ABS... i dont care about ABS! lol

james, that adapter is pretty much exactly what ive been wanting for this to work for us. holy balls that is amazing.

will that adapter sleeve work on an n-body aluminum knuckle, you think? if so that would be a seller part around here for sure. if people could just swap the n-body knuckles and brakes over whilst using the the j-body wheel bearings it'd be easy a pie and save us a bunch of un-sprung weight not to mention provide a slightly larger brake.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, April 21, 2011 10:50 AM



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Thursday, April 21, 2011 11:51 AM
Listening......

If we can figure out the hub situation, I am willing to make my own caliper bracket so I can use my Wilwood kit



Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Thursday, April 21, 2011 3:41 PM
i honestly would estimate with the knuckles, control arms, wilwood kit, and some type of coilover setup that you could get down to possibly 30 pounds lighter per corner up front by doing all this stuff.

that in un-sprung weight would be PHENOMENAL.



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Friday, April 22, 2011 4:53 AM
Well I checked into the 1996 chyrsler concord 3.3 v6 axles and the outboard spline count according to autozone website is outboard count of 33 which is the same as our jbody's, so If a concord wheel bearing is a direct bolt in for a N body aluminum spindle we could run non hybrid j body axles. I'm not sure on if abs will be retained for those who care.....But I think I'm going to pick up a pair of aluminum N body spindles and visit my buddy at autozone to see if the wheel bearing is a bolt in. I'll keep everyone posted. Oh and I've got Aluminum lowwers in the mail right now, and waiting on response from a yard on the knuckles.

1996 Chrysler concord 3.3 axle


jbody axle





Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, April 22, 2011 5:28 AM



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Saturday, April 23, 2011 5:53 AM
Has anyone contacted OEM for help with this???



Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Saturday, April 23, 2011 6:01 AM
Blwn LD9 wrote:

Has anyone contacted OEM for help with this???


No why do you ask? Whats your idea?






Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Saturday, April 23, 2011 12:05 PM
JUCNBST wrote:

Blwn LD9 wrote:

Has anyone contacted OEM for help with this???


No why do you ask? Whats your idea?


I think all options should be on the table. I am all for the current out of the box thinking, but if OEM can make an aluminum adapter that would be option too




Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Saturday, April 23, 2011 6:39 PM
well i wanna hear what cahil has to add about his adapters... maybe we could just use his dimensions. on that link he provided it shows pics of exact dimension specs to build them.



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Saturday, April 23, 2011 8:01 PM
Is the j wheel bearing bolt pattern the same as the n body knuckles? If so why can't you add a longer bolt and nut it on the back side? Or even redrill the spindle for them bearing? Problem I see is that you will have to redrill the rotors each way.

One other idea I was thinking about since I am wanting to do the irs swap and also keep the 5x100 is could the bearings be redrilled along with the rotors?





Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:07 AM
i seriously can't see this mod making it worth the time an hassel unless your doin the full swap why would you do all that to save a little weight and still have the stock small brakes

swap the spindle/ LCA and bakes all over find a set of rims that have dual bolt pattern and use the bigger on the fron and small on the back no one will know.

besides if your using your j body bearing you wont have the ABS built into the bearing and the ABS sensor wont bolt onto the N body spindle as the N bodys are built into the bearing so if you are using ABS it wont work unless you drill and tap the the spindle and have the sensor mounted poperly.

then again what are you really gaining



JBO since July 30, 2001
Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:24 AM
NOTa2_4 wrote:

i seriously can't see this mod making it worth the time an hassel unless your doin the full swap why would you do all that to save a little weight and still have the stock small brakes

swap the spindle/ LCA and bakes all over find a set of rims that have dual bolt pattern and use the bigger on the fron and small on the back no one will know.

besides if your using your j body bearing you wont have the ABS built into the bearing and the ABS sensor wont bolt onto the N body spindle as the N bodys are built into the bearing so if you are using ABS it wont work unless you drill and tap the the spindle and have the sensor mounted poperly.

then again what are you really gaining


the n-body brakes ARE bigger. not by much but they are. plus you get aluminum calipers versus our heavy ass ones.

weight may not mean much to you but to some people its a HUGE deal. no not gaining much really by worrying about the knuckles but if you shave ten here, ten there... sooner or later you have 100 pounds and i dont care who you are, thats a difference you can feel.




Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:28 AM
I thought the great thing about the nwf swap was that you could just bolt on thed larger fbody brakes



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Sunday, April 24, 2011 9:00 AM
you can... im talking about the n/n/n swap! LOL



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Sunday, April 24, 2011 10:32 AM
The reason I'm looking into doing this swap is the unsprung weight reduction and going from our 10 in to 11in brakes with the easy swap down the line to f body brakes if I want. Another thing is my rims don't have dual patterns just 5x100. Granted I've had them for like 5 years now between both my cav's, they still look brand new with no rash or chips in the finish. I'd like to keep them for the time being, as I don't want to purchase Tein ss's and new rims this year as I haven't budgeted for them both this year.. Keeping my abs doesn't worry me much as I've been used to driving cars without it since I was 16, and not having it won't bother me. Plus once I get back to autocrossing on a regular basis again this will help with handling....and before you comment on "well it's going to put you in some crazy class" that doesn't bother me one bit. I do it for the fun of throwing my car around plus with the supercharger I'm already bumped into another class.

Here are some links to explain why I'm looking to reduce my Unsprung weight.
link1
link2


I did a quick google search for the benifits of this as I'm heading out with family right now, I'll see whatelse I can did up later on if you guys are interested.





Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Sunday, April 24, 2011 11:40 AM
I guess what I asked is not an option? Same here on not worried about if there is abs.





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