1999 N body Aluminum knuckle swap question - Page 2 - Suspension and Brake Forum

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Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:08 PM
Jason-I'm not 100% sure myself if you can redrill the spindles for the jbody wheel bearing and I'm not sure I'd want to do that. If you look up the N body and J body wheel bearing specs the actual 3bolt pattern that holds them on is different. I'm basically looking for a way we can use bolt on parts to make it possible to use the lighter aluminum gm parts with whatever hub (chrysler,ford, vw) to retain our 5x100 pattern and allow us to keep the factory brakes if you don't want to upgrade at the moment. Then your just a hub swap away from bigger brakes down the road if you want to go that way later on. But in the mean time you'll get the benifit of less unsprung weight which will make spirited driving a little more fun.







Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Sunday, April 24, 2011 4:41 PM
you guys are losing me you want the N body knuckle but you want a j body bearing but the N body brakes. just swap it all over and buy a dual pattern rim then don't bother trying to fit the j body bearing if your gonna use the rest of the N body stuff seems back asswards , YES I SAID BACK ASSWARDS

and weight savings does matter to me this just seems not worth the work when you can get the same results just as easy

N body spindle
control arm
rotor
caliper
bearing
dual pattern rims
should finish this off all can be had at a junk yard and be installed in a day.

thats basicly the swap i'm doin its definatly not worth swaping the bearing out and mounting the ABS sensor then drilling the rotors for the 5X100 but hey theres been crazier things done then that



JBO since July 30, 2001
Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Sunday, April 24, 2011 11:30 PM
jucnbst- i see what your saying and i will keep an eye out.

not a 2 4- my problem is i love my set of rims i have now and i'm not looking to buy another set. plus i can't find anything i like or looks like what i have. i have a couple other reasons i would like to keep the 5x100 pattern, along with if i buy another set of wheels they will be a wider offset and i will have no need to swap out the suspension to have the wider offset and bigger brakes. i would simply buy a big brake kit, new wheels and problem solved, minus being out a ton of money. lol





Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Monday, April 25, 2011 3:49 AM
Just for clarification; are you trying to run j body or n body rotors? Will j body abutment brackets and calipers even bolt up to the n body knuckle. And if they don't I think your going to be stuck running n body brakes anyways, which are probably lighter anyways even with increased rotor mass. if the only reason your trying to keep the 5x100 pattern is for rims or a big brake kit, best option is probably getting a machine shop to drill them. Would be awesome if there is hub that works, I just don't know if the brakes will
Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Monday, April 25, 2011 5:42 AM
no j-body brakes will not work on an n-body knuckle.

and nota2.4... lol i spent A LOT of money on all my 5X100 rims, not going to buy another set. plus dual pattern looks fugly



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Monday, April 25, 2011 8:19 AM
Mike Charron wrote:

Just for clarification; are you trying to run j body or n body rotors? Will j body abutment brackets and calipers even bolt up to the n body knuckle. And if they don't I think your going to be stuck running n body brakes anyways, which are probably lighter anyways even with increased rotor mass. if the only reason your trying to keep the 5x100 pattern is for rims or a big brake kit, best option is probably getting a machine shop to drill them. Would be awesome if there is hub that works, I just don't know if the brakes will


trying to keep the 5x100 for rims not big brake kit. i'm trying to stay away from the cost of those kits. plus you have to order expensive rotors. i could handle a simple lug pattern redrill on new rotors. i would probably even have a jig set up for it. only thing that worries me is that hub diameter. that why i have not looked into the option of subaru rotors. to me boaring those hub holes can be a head ache.





Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Monday, April 25, 2011 9:06 AM
Mike Charron wrote:

Just for clarification; are you trying to run j body or n body rotors?


I haven't decided yet. Once I get the knuckles here and I can kill time at the parts store I'll have a better idea. Reason why is I want to run the aluminum N body Calipers and depending on the distance from the base plate of the stock N body hub compaired to the Chyrsler hub I found. Then I could be on an srt4 rotor, or vw, or chyrsler I wont' know until I get parts on my hands and I can take some measurements. Here is a list of possible rotors that could be used in a 5x100 pattern and the size of the overall diameter N body rotor.

Disc Diameter of other 5x100 cars
Jbody-10.2inches
SRT-4-10.63inches
96 Concord 3.3v6-11.1inches
Scion TC-274.9mm or 10.82 inches
Toyota Celica--274.9mm or 10.82 inches

Stock N body-10.94 inch


( I also forgot to mention I also have a set of bogart 15in drag rims in 5x100. another reason why I'm trying to keep the pattern )


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, April 25, 2011 9:12 AM



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Monday, April 25, 2011 12:45 PM
Well after digging for spec on rotors in the 5x100 pattern I'm leaning on Toyota Celica rotor will work on with the N body brake caliper. Now I just need to see the differences in Hubs between the 96 Chrysler and the N body hub. The difference in rotor height is .5mm between the Celica and Malibu and 3.2mm in overall diameter size.

Celica rotor specs

Malibu rotor specs






Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Monday, April 25, 2011 1:18 PM
sweet... i do still need rotors for mine so finding a set that dont need re-drilled would be a nice option.



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Monday, April 25, 2011 4:01 PM
I noticed someone mentioned Using the camber plates on the top of teins to adjust camber, just remember that when you do that you will also change steering effort and road feedback since you will be moving the scrub radius. ANd you'll be moving towards the more steering effort, more feedback range.


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Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Monday, April 25, 2011 5:53 PM
yeah thats true but it still works and works well. might not allow for 200,000 miles but it gets the job done.




Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Monday, April 25, 2011 6:01 PM
Leafy wrote:

I noticed someone mentioned Using the camber plates on the top of teins to adjust camber, just remember that when you do that you will also change steering effort and road feedback since you will be moving the scrub radius. ANd you'll be moving towards the more steering effort, more feedback range.


Depending if you are using the stock control arms or unmodded ga control arms. Correct? . When I do this I will be using the unmodded so I will have to do something for the camber.



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Monday, April 25, 2011 7:25 PM
slot the strut towers!



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Tuesday, April 26, 2011 3:57 AM
What is the hub center dimensions of the Chrysler??




Jason
99 Z24

LG0/LD9 for Life
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Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:26 AM
MRThompson (jrthompson) wrote:

Leafy wrote:

I noticed someone mentioned Using the camber plates on the top of teins to adjust camber, just remember that when you do that you will also change steering effort and road feedback since you will be moving the scrub radius. ANd you'll be moving towards the more steering effort, more feedback range.


Depending if you are using the stock control arms or unmodded ga control arms. Correct? . When I do this I will be using the unmodded so I will have to do something for the camber.


It really shouldnt depend on the control arms, imagine a line projecting out of the bottom of your strut, where it hits the ground is your scrub radius.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:29 AM
Sorry I haven't gotten back to this, I'm in Iraq again and can't get online every day.

I used-
H body spindle (1993 spec)
J body bearing
J body axle
H body caliper
H body rotor re-drilled to 5x100
Custom adapter to mount J bearing on H spindle

AFAIK, all H body bearings are 5x115. During my research, I found that the H body bearing is the same as the N body dimensionally (the diameter of the hole in the spindle is the same). All J body bearings are the same (from 82-05). So, what I figured you guys might be able to do was use at least some of the dimensions I posted to make the adapter plate, then simply use this combo-

N body spindle
J body bearing
J body axle
N caliper
N rotor redrilled (see note)
Custom adapter to mount J bearing on N spindle

(about the rotor- when I did this, I needed to get it done, and simply redrilling the H rotor to 5x100 was my easy route. I'm sure there is a rotor out there with acceptable dimensions that will be a direct fit, but I didn't have enough time to look. I know Wilwood can make pretty much any dimension rotor you need with their interchangeable hat system. I'm not too concerned about wear, since the car only gets like 500 miles/year, and weighs much less than a stock H body)

The only dimension that might need to change is the overall thickness of the adapter. I have no idea what the dimension from the face of the N rotor hat to the back face of the bearing is. But, the caliper is full float, so you have some play in either direction as far as where the rotor pad face ends up.

.



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Tuesday, April 26, 2011 8:23 AM
wow... ill be having my machinist whittle out some adapters asap via ur dimensions.

thanks a TON, man. ill post pics when i get it finished.



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:33 AM
Now those I would be interested in...



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:28 PM
James Cahill wrote:

Sorry I haven't gotten back to this, I'm in Iraq again and can't get online every day.

.




Thanks for Serving James, not a big deal you can't post up everyday. Thanks for the info.






Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:43 PM
so.. who would be interested in an adapter to utilize the n-body aluminum knuckles on ur j-body?



Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Friday, July 15, 2011 12:44 AM
I'm all for innovation, and interchanging parts is awesome and I love doing it as well......... but, and I'm just throwing this out there.... wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to just redrill the N-body hub and rotors to 5X100, 99 Grand Am Axles, and be done with it, save for alignment???




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Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Friday, July 15, 2011 4:52 AM
Roofy- I was looking for an option that doesn't involve re-drilling in case you need to replace bearing/rotors down the road so everything is basically plug and play if you will. I've got lower aluminum control arms, and I located a few pairs of hubs I just didn't have the tools to remove them at the yard as I didn't plan on getting any last weekend. So right now I don't have any progress other than what possibilities I found from what I researched.

Z yaa- Possibly, what do you thought up?







Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Friday, July 15, 2011 7:54 AM
well man im working with a company on getting some of the adapters made like james cahill's. we are thinking about doing flush counter sunk bolts on the adapter though. the adapters would could come powdercoated and with the bolts. all we need to do is have the knuckled machined down the .300 (if ours need it). right now its in the early development stages. i just wanna get a rough idea on how many sets people might want.


Roofy wrote:

I'm all for innovation, and interchanging parts is awesome and I love doing it as well......... but, and I'm just throwing this out there.... wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to just redrill the N-body hub and rotors to 5X100, 99 Grand Am Axles, and be done with it, save for alignment???


i dont know about EASIER... its definitely an option though and a good one ff thats the way you wanna go. there really is no wrong way to go about it... its just however the owner likes it thats all. me personally, i wanna keep the stock j-body type axles and wheel bearings and since every single set of my rims is 5X100, i dont even have the option to run the n-body pattern like a lot do during the nwf swap. also.. the n-body wheel bearings have a MASSIVE center hub bore. this would need to be addressed on wheels. either machine the hub bore bore or machine the inside of your wheels down (if they contact that section).

as for work...

option 1 (n-body stuff)....

1.) locate and purchase 99 axles (or go the hybrid route but thats more work) (although im not quite sure if they would work due to length on stock j-body track)
2.) re-drill wheel bearings
3.) redrill rotors to 5X100 (or if your rims have dual patterns run the n-body pattern)

option 2 (j-body stuff)....

1.) machine n-body knuckles down the .300 (if thats what is needed)
2.) bolt ur adapters to knuckle and then just use the stock j-body stuff.
3.) redrill rotors for 5X100.

you cannot however use the stock j-body brakes, you'll need to either go with the n-body stuff or the larger f body stuff for either option.

as for the ball joints and tie rods, im not sure on that. iirc at least the ball joints are larger. worst comes to worst you would just use the n-body stuff, which if you bought a set of the aluminum control arms used would already have the ball joints.

so really, either option has its work. like i said... up to owner as to what they prefer.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, July 15, 2011 7:57 AM


Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Friday, July 15, 2011 8:22 AM
So I'm trying to follow this and I'm wondering for us people out there that want things as simple as possible with as few things "drilled out" and "cut up" as possible, what is the whole parts list to get these control arms, calipers, and bigger brakes to work on my cavalier?

1999 N-Body control arm and ball joint (not re-drilled?), N-Body knuckle, N-body wheel bearing, N-body brakes (caliper/bracket, rotor, etc), but what about the axle?
I'm running Tein lowering springs and Tokico struts and I might be able to squeeze money for different bolt pattern rims but not some Tein SS. I want to do the IRS/rear disk swap someday anyway too so that way the bolt pattern will be the same. I'm not looking to make some kind of hybrid axle, I'll probably just break the bearing/joints inside. Which axle do I need to make this work? I read the N-Body is too long and the J-Body (3-speed) wont work. Thanks in advance. Just trying to simplify this.


http://www.cardomain.com/id/Gerkn

Re: 1999 N body steering knuckle question
Friday, July 15, 2011 8:35 AM
Sorry for double post, I feel dumb now. The J axles should work fine if you re-drill the N-Body control arm for the ball joint, correct? Are the larger F-Body calipers still light like the N-Body calipers? So the full parts list to keep things simplified:

Stock axles (3-spd, 4-spd, 5spd, etc),
1999 N-Body control arm re-drilled to fit.
99 N-Body knuckle,
99 N-body wheel bearing with 5x115 pattern
99 N-body brakes (caliper, rotor, pads) or larger F-body brakes
Rims to fit 5x115 pattern


http://www.cardomain.com/id/Gerkn

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