How much do you pay for your Special Alignment? - Page 2 - Suspension and Brake Forum

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Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:40 AM
Eric Knight wrote:

By our cars being non adjustable, I meant all factory.
It's 100% possible with camber bolts, or your secret way.
I'm betting you slot the strut towers. I may do so, and make a hold down plate, just to fix the caster.


The factory procedure is to slot the lower strut mounting holes, regardless of year. Camber bolts are the "easy" way out, even though they take about the same amount of time to put in.

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Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Thursday, August 23, 2012 4:59 PM
Yeah I just took a look at my stock struts, and the bottom bolt thingy has a thinner wall where you would slot it. I could see an extra charge for that MAYBE, but I mean all they do is type in numbers, and their robot moves the wheels, then they tighten everything up. At least that's my understanding of it... hence why I pay them to do it.



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Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Thursday, August 23, 2012 5:32 PM
Robots don't do the work. People do. Lol The alignment machine tells you what angles are out, how to adjust, and can even tell you what tools are needed. But all the labor is done by a person.




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 6th quickest Ecotec on the .org -12.453 @ 116.45 MPH!!!

Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Friday, August 24, 2012 12:25 PM
Well yeah, I just see a robot hooked to my wheels and instantly think "omg talk about overhead"

I know the alignment tech personally, and he's been educating me. What can I do to fix this thrust angle in the rear though?
Caster is non adjustable? but it does pull to the right... a little harder than I 1st described, and I don't like that.



I roll on steelies. Work-in-progress daily-sleeper potential.
http://www.j-body.org/classifieds/engine/60493/
Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Friday, August 24, 2012 3:55 PM
Generally speaking, a vehicle will generally have a pull toward the side with the most negative Caster and/or most positive Camber. So after looking at the print out again, I can assume that the pull due to the Caster split being negative to the left and the rear toe to the right.

As for fixing the rear alignment, it would require one of these to fix. They do come in various adjustments from 1/4 degree up to 1 1/2 degree. The alignment comp will bring up a recommended shim and have a template laid out on the screen to print out and do the cut outs for the shim to make it fit.


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"If life is a joke, why aren't we laughing?"
"Normality depends on one's perception of reality."
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Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Friday, August 24, 2012 6:57 PM
For the rear axle thrust angle, there is really no fix since the axle is mounted solid. A small bit of play in the axle bushings could cause that bit of shift in the measurements, but its within spec so I wouldn't worry too much about it. As far as the front, I would bump up the front camber to -.5 degrees, and set the toe in negative a couple tenths. Front caster could be from a slightly bent control arm, play in the bushings or strut mounts. As someone said before, the rear toe and camber are adjustable using a full contact shim, but ONLY if you don't plan to raise or lower the car. Changing the angle of the rear axle by raising or lowering the car will change the rear axle alignment.





Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 6th quickest Ecotec on the .org -12.453 @ 116.45 MPH!!!

Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Friday, August 24, 2012 7:03 PM
Roofy wrote:

For the rear axle thrust angle, there is really no fix since the axle is mounted solid.


That is true for most applications, but the toe can cause it too, especially in IRS setups, but our cars are adjustable by shims


"United by Individuality"
"If life is a joke, why aren't we laughing?"
"Normality depends on one's perception of reality."
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Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Saturday, August 25, 2012 5:22 AM
the rear thrust angle is fixed by correcting the rear toe, preferable with a full contact shim. You can correct toe and camber with the shim all at the same time.
You haven't notice rear toe wear as the total rear toe is in spec. The shims cost $15 each and take 1 hour to install per side.

front cross caster is generally tried to be kept with 0.5 degrees. Meaning the difference of the right to left caster readings should be with 0.5 degrees of each other. Your close to that.
When the cross caster is to great it effects how the wheel spindles rest...the weight of the car pushes them down to the lowest resting point...with a large caster difference the spindles with rest at a turned angle creating a pull condition.
Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Saturday, August 25, 2012 5:58 PM
^ do you mean camber?

Because my front caster is +4.4 L and -5 R
I'm extremely confused, but my tech says that that won't effect tire wear.

I'm happy for the rest of the season. Show shoes and stock struts going back on end of October... but that would call for a resetting of toe :/ Maybe I'll just leave the struts on through winter, and not plow through the random storms that leave the streets with 3-4 feet for a couple days. & Spend the winter brushing up on suspension.

I'm dabbling in the idea for an IRS rear swap, but most likely not happening since I have a neon rear disc swap just waiting to be put on.... the rear wheel bearings are bad anyways just figured this out.

After the disc swap in the spring comes the rear shims hopefully, since it's lowered, and all the angles are off.

@Roofy
I'm positive my front caster is the sub frame. Both front control arms have 10k, brand new strut mounts, and you probably didn't read where I said I slid into a curb at 40 last winter and bent everything up

Wait maybe not...
I just looked at my sheet from march, and on my stock struts front caster was +3.9L +4.6R
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm




I roll on steelies. Work-in-progress daily-sleeper potential.
http://www.j-body.org/classifieds/engine/60493/
Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:42 PM
Eric Knight wrote:

^ do you mean camber?

Because my front caster is +4.4 L and -5 R
I'm extremely confused, but my tech says that that won't effect tire wear.


Actually your caster is +4.4 on the left and +5.0 on the right. The right side looks like it's +0.1 outside tolerance(Positive tolerance being at +4.9). But the tech is right Caster is NOT a tire wear angle, only Camber and Toe are.

Eric Knight wrote:

I'm dabbling in the idea for an IRS rear swap, but most likely not happening since I have a neon rear disc swap just waiting to be put on.... the rear wheel bearings are bad anyways just figured this out.


I'm dabbling in the IRS too, just don't like the idea of having to run the 5x115mm bolt pattern, but oh well. Beggers can't always be choosers. In regards to the IRS, I do know of a company that makes adjustable lateral links for the last generation N-bodies.

I too have a neon setup I'm working on, but it's a slow process.

Eric Knight wrote:

Wait maybe not...
I just looked at my sheet from march, and on my stock struts front caster was +3.9L +4.6R
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Could be a result of the drop, not definite, but possible. But look at it this way, at least the cross caster angle is 0.1 closer together.


"United by Individuality"
"If life is a joke, why aren't we laughing?"
"Normality depends on one's perception of reality."
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3820803
Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Saturday, August 25, 2012 10:25 PM
^^ Good man ^^

Everything's good, and I'm beyond satisfied with handling right now. I'm going tomorrow or Tuesday to get the specs again. He offered to throw it on the rack, pull the measurements and go on a test drive with me, and I'm taking him up on it, the more numbers the better!



I roll on steelies. Work-in-progress daily-sleeper potential.
http://www.j-body.org/classifieds/engine/60493/

Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Saturday, August 25, 2012 10:46 PM
See if you can work something out for the shim installs. Chances are they probably won't do anything for the cost, but it's worth a shot.


"United by Individuality"
"If life is a joke, why aren't we laughing?"
"Normality depends on one's perception of reality."
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3820803
Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Sunday, September 02, 2012 8:02 PM
On our vehicle you can remove the upper strut bolt and slighty loosen the bottom one. Then you slide the strut in or out, then use a die grinder to cut the sturt slighty. Reinstall the upper bolt and that is how camber is adjusted.

Now because you did all this special stuff you are going to pay more, and should have to.

The tech is going to spend more time working with it, and he should get paid for it.




- 2004 Cavalier - 124k, owned since new



Re: How much do you pay for your Special Alignment?
Tuesday, September 04, 2012 3:36 PM
Rob wrote:

On our vehicle you can remove the upper strut bolt and slighty loosen the bottom one. Then you slide the strut in or out, then use a die grinder to cut the sturt slighty. Reinstall the upper bolt and that is how camber is adjusted.

Now because you did all this special stuff you are going to pay more, and should have to.

The tech is going to spend more time working with it, and he should get paid for it.


WTF? Did you even read any of this thread? Do you even know what's done during an alignment?

He doesn't have any "special stuff" done. There is no reason to charge any more for an alignment with anything mentioned in this thread. The tech spends no more time adjusting camber with aftermarket struts than with factory, it's the same procedure. Same with the rear.
.



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