FWD Camber Setup - Suspension and Brake Forum

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FWD Camber Setup
Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:35 AM
Whats a good camber setup for best acceleration on a FWD?... when you go to accelerate your top of the tire will want to come in causing positive camber.

Re: FWD Camber Setup
Monday, January 21, 2013 6:09 PM
When the top of the tire tips in, it's negative camber, not positive.

You want to have as much contact patch as possible to get as much grip as possible. Run zero camber. You should also be concerned about toe depending on how fast you plan on accelerating to, and how much street driving you want to do.
.



Re: FWD Camber Setup
Monday, January 21, 2013 6:22 PM
best camber for acceleration on the driven wheels is zero.





Re: FWD Camber Setup
Wednesday, January 23, 2013 8:01 PM
whya re you even worried about acceleration? you drive a Grand AM





Re: FWD Camber Setup
Thursday, January 24, 2013 4:53 PM
HardcoreXSunfire wrote:

whya re you even worried about acceleration? you drive a Grand AM


says the guy with the "hardcore" sunfire....



It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Re: FWD Camber Setup
Thursday, January 24, 2013 5:26 PM
Actually when you accelerate, the top of the tire will lean OUT causing POSITIVE camber. Especially during hard acceleration, such as launching when drag racing, the front of the car will lift, causing the tires to lean outward. Therefore, a small amount of negative camber is ideal. This will also help maintain a better contact patch during hard cornering. I am running -.5 degrees camber in the front on my sunfire.




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 6th quickest Ecotec on the .org -12.453 @ 116.45 MPH!!!

Re: FWD Camber Setup
Friday, January 25, 2013 8:58 AM
Roofy wrote:

Actually when you accelerate, the top of the tire will lean OUT causing POSITIVE camber. Especially during hard acceleration, such as launching when drag racing, the front of the car will lift, causing the tires to lean outward. Therefore, a small amount of negative camber is ideal. This will also help maintain a better contact patch during hard cornering. I am running -.5 degrees camber in the front on my sunfire.


do you notice an extra tire wear (shortened tire life) with only -.5 degrees? i know it's not a lot but i'm just curious as once i put in my new suspension it will be going in for an alignment, would it be worth putting the fronts at -.5?



Re: FWD Camber Setup
Friday, January 25, 2013 11:54 AM
I ran -1 for a long time on my then DD (double duty DD and AutoX, hence the -1 camber), and never noticed any untoward tire wear on my street tires. Heck, -1 degree camber is pretty hard to notice visibly.


-------------------------------------------------
Sleeper style, they don't see it coming that way.
Re: FWD Camber Setup
Friday, January 25, 2013 1:07 PM
camber doesn't kill tires


toe does.






Re: FWD Camber Setup
Friday, January 25, 2013 4:46 PM
ok thanks squisher, and i know toe does daflynskwirl, but over time TOO much camber can wear the inner treads out. the new impalas are really bad for it and i'd like my keep my tires new tires a long as possible lol



Re: FWD Camber Setup
Sunday, January 27, 2013 11:28 AM
LOL brad

Re: FWD Camber Setup
Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:00 PM
Camber can cause tire wear, as well as toe. I worked in a tire shop for many years, and also did alignments. Here's a link to a tire wear chart that helps explain it.

HOW TO READ TIRE WEAR
Re: FWD Camber Setup
Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:57 PM
when i had my cavalier lowered on sportlines it ended up with -1.24 camber in the front on each side (i didnt think to get camber adjustment bolts when i was gathering my suspension parts) i had slight feather edging on the very outside crown of the tires, but i think it was due to my toe leaning toward the negative (i think) side of stock specs, i was aiming for good straight-line highway speed stability.

i'm thinking you'd want -.5* camber and absolutely 0* of toe for the least resistance? i think, correct me if im wrong guys
Re: FWD Camber Setup
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 4:52 AM
You don't want 0* toe. It will be less resistance but the car will be darty and tend to track into grooves in the road




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 6th quickest Ecotec on the .org -12.453 @ 116.45 MPH!!!

Re: FWD Camber Setup
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 5:54 AM
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:

camber doesn't kill tires


toe does.


i still dont understand this statement. lol do you mean extreme camber doesnt wear the inner or outter edges? if the tire has more pressure on a section of it how would it not wear more? (not arguing just still trying to understand where you are coming from) the way i understand it toe makes the tire skip across the pavement causing cupping, which is abnormal wear... but if the tire is square to the pavement how can it only wear out the inside or outside edge? camber moves the tire in or out making it have more pressure on the inner or outter edge so it would then make the inner or outter edge wear more.

allow me to illustrate what im trying to say...

negative camber wear:


positive camber wear:


is this incorrect???





It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Re: FWD Camber Setup
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:42 AM
Excessive camber can cause uneven tread wear patterns, excessive toe causes accelerated wear overall.

In my application (back when I still had a J) I did SCCA Solo II (as it was called then, not sure if it's still the same anymore) about once a month. Since I was switching tires anyway, I would rotate my street tires when switching back from the "track" tires I had. Since I was grossly OCD about rotation it kept the weirdness from running negative camber pretty much nonexistent.

That and I wouldn't consider -1 degree of camber to be excessive on an enthusiastically driven car anyway.


-------------------------------------------------
Sleeper style, they don't see it coming that way.
Re: FWD Camber Setup
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 4:01 PM
camber will cause wear... but not NEARLY as quickly as toe.





Re: FWD Camber Setup
Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:57 PM
toe will kill brand new tires in a week.

I've done it. 70 mile round trip to and from work.


I've had some pretty aggressive camber in the front for a while, and while wear might be noticeable after 50,000+ miles or whatever, if your toe setting is excessively incorrect and you drive maybe 200 or 300 miles you'll be buying new tires.







Re: FWD Camber Setup
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:12 PM
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:

I've had some pretty aggressive camber in the front for a while, and while wear might be noticeable after 50,000+ miles or whatever, if your toe setting is excessively incorrect and you drive maybe 200 or 300 miles you'll be buying new tires.


For those of you wondering- this is why camber is NOT considered a wear angle. Yes, it will wear the tire, but not fast enough to be considered a wear angle. By the time it shows up, the tire is normally too old anyways.

.



Re: FWD Camber Setup
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:39 PM
Roofy wrote:

You don't want 0* toe. It will be less resistance but the car will be darty and tend to track into grooves in the road


What is the desired toe?

I have had that issue with every j ive owned and hated it so much. Would be awesome to lessen it.
Re: FWD Camber Setup
Thursday, January 31, 2013 2:39 AM
Philly D wrote:

Roofy wrote:

You don't want 0* toe. It will be less resistance but the car will be darty and tend to track into grooves in the road


What is the desired toe?

I have had that issue with every j ive owned and hated it so much. Would be awesome to lessen it.


to my understanding, a little bit of toe IN is desired
that way, the car will be stable travelling forwards because the tires are pointing towards each other.


I use Fast trax alignment racks to align the car myself (since I'm only ever really concerned with my front toe setting) and I think I have the car setup right now for 1/16" toe in (I use a tape measure, so the degrees conversion is a little confusing)

maybe 1* toe in?






Re: FWD Camber Setup
Thursday, January 31, 2013 4:20 PM
PJ is right. On our cars, most FWD cars actually, a little bit of toe in negative is the best for road feel and handling. Depending on the suspension setup, some cars track better with a little bit of toe-out.




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 6th quickest Ecotec on the .org -12.453 @ 116.45 MPH!!!

Re: FWD Camber Setup
Friday, February 08, 2013 4:58 PM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:

camber doesn't kill tires


toe does.


i still dont understand this statement. lol do you mean extreme camber doesnt wear the inner or outter edges? if the tire has more pressure on a section of it how would it not wear more? (not arguing just still trying to understand where you are coming from) the way i understand it toe makes the tire skip across the pavement causing cupping, which is abnormal wear... but if the tire is square to the pavement how can it only wear out the inside or outside edge? camber moves the tire in or out making it have more pressure on the inner or outter edge so it would then make the inner or outter edge wear more.

allow me to illustrate what im trying to say...

negative camber wear:


im haviong this issue.. on both front tires, what can i do to correct it.. ive taken it in for alignments and still after a few months im having to buy new tires, i also notice a wierd wubbing sound from the left..idk what to do..



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Re: FWD Camber Setup
Friday, February 08, 2013 5:47 PM
Just Dave (2 UNIQ) wrote:

-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:

camber doesn't kill tires


toe does.


i still dont understand this statement. lol do you mean extreme camber doesnt wear the inner or outter edges? if the tire has more pressure on a section of it how would it not wear more? (not arguing just still trying to understand where you are coming from) the way i understand it toe makes the tire skip across the pavement causing cupping, which is abnormal wear... but if the tire is square to the pavement how can it only wear out the inside or outside edge? camber moves the tire in or out making it have more pressure on the inner or outter edge so it would then make the inner or outter edge wear more.

allow me to illustrate what im trying to say...

negative camber wear:


im haviong this issue.. on both front tires, what can i do to correct it.. ive taken it in for alignments and still after a few months im having to buy new tires, i also notice a wierd wubbing sound from the left..idk what to do..


Sound is likely a wheel bearing.

When you took it in for a alignment what did they say?



FU Tuning



Re: FWD Camber Setup
Sunday, February 10, 2013 9:38 AM
they had replaced a front wheel hubs both left and right... isnt that the same thing?



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