Sway bar advice... - Suspension and Brake Forum

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Sway bar advice...
Saturday, March 23, 2013 6:00 PM
Currently on my car im riding stock when it comes to sway bars. I have the stock front and rear bars.

I have a Eibach rear bar I was planning on installing when my new suspension shows up.

Would I see a gain from going and getting the Eibach front bar given its only 2mm larger? or should I just get urethane bushings and new endlinks for the front and call it a day?

That being said...where can I find urethane bushings and what endlinks for the front...thanks

Re: Sway bar advice...
Saturday, March 23, 2013 7:01 PM
I'd install the rear bar and new front bushings and see how you like it. I'm running the stock z front bar which I think is 22mm and a 28.5mm rear bar. Car is very neutral and has has no noticeable over or understeer. I would say yours would handle similar.




Re: Sway bar advice...
Sunday, March 24, 2013 8:37 AM
Slowzee wrote:

I'd install the rear bar and new front bushings and see how you like it. I'm running the stock z front bar which I think is 22mm and a 28.5mm rear bar. Car is very neutral and has has no noticeable over or understeer. I would say yours would handle similar.


I find this very hard to believe... I an addco rear bar (25.4mm) with an fe2 front and throttle off oversteer was VERY bad. i would guess that you haven't had the car to the limits.

I run matching addcos front and rear and the car is as neutral as can be with just a hint of oversteer at the limits.



Re: Sway bar advice...
Sunday, March 24, 2013 8:55 AM
strat81 wrote:

Slowzee wrote:

I'd install the rear bar and new front bushings and see how you like it. I'm running the stock z front bar which I think is 22mm and a 28.5mm rear bar. Car is very neutral and has has no noticeable over or understeer. I would say yours would handle similar.


I find this very hard to believe... I an addco rear bar (25.4mm) with an fe2 front and throttle off oversteer was VERY bad. i would guess that you haven't had the car to the limits.

I run matching addcos front and rear and the car is as neutral as can be with just a hint of oversteer at the limits.


I agree...helps to have adjustable shocks too



Re: Sway bar advice...
Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:32 AM
strat81 wrote:

Slowzee wrote:

I'd install the rear bar and new front bushings and see how you like it. I'm running the stock z front bar which I think is 22mm and a 28.5mm rear bar. Car is very neutral and has has no noticeable over or understeer. I would say yours would handle similar.


I find this very hard to believe... I an addco rear bar (25.4mm) with an fe2 front and throttle off oversteer was VERY bad. i would guess that you haven't had the car to the limits.

I run matching addcos front and rear and the car is as neutral as can be with just a hint of oversteer at the limits.


hm.....so that 2mm on the front bar makes that much difference...
Re: Sway bar advice...
Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:43 AM
I've heard the same. I was going to do just a rear bar but found that I need to both to avoid oversteer.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: Sway bar advice...
Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:28 PM
I was running AGX's with KYB adjustables, rear eibach sway bar with urethane mounts, convertible tower brace and rear tower brace and would get some oversteer especially on wide turns, like roundabouts, so I would agree that going the full monty on the sway bar would be good.

Funny enough I have an Eibach front bar with mounts for sale if the other guy backs out.


I accidentally the SHIFT LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!



The proper way of using the word seen. It is not I seen it that would be I saw it. He has seen the car is the right way to use the word. English class is Cool. By the way thats my sig
Re: Sway bar advice...
Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:53 PM
strat81 wrote:

Slowzee wrote:

I'd install the rear bar and new front bushings and see how you like it. I'm running the stock z front bar which I think is 22mm and a 28.5mm rear bar. Car is very neutral and has has no noticeable over or understeer. I would say yours would handle similar.


I find this very hard to believe... I an addco rear bar (25.4mm) with an fe2 front and throttle off oversteer was VERY bad. i would guess that you haven't had the car to the limits.

I run matching addcos front and rear and the car is as neutral as can be with just a hint of oversteer at the limits.



No, I don't auto x, I do drive the twisties quite often however.

Everyone's car is going to be different, I was just voicing my opinion on my experience, with my car.




Re: Sway bar advice...
Sunday, March 24, 2013 3:03 PM
Its not just the diameter you should be concerned about. Different bars are made of different types of spring steel and will flex differently. Since most of the time you wont know what bars are made of Id suggest going with a matched front and rear set from Eibach and Addco since theyre designed to work together.



Re: Sway bar advice...
Sunday, March 24, 2013 3:57 PM
Philly D wrote:

strat81 wrote:

Slowzee wrote:

I'd install the rear bar and new front bushings and see how you like it. I'm running the stock z front bar which I think is 22mm and a 28.5mm rear bar. Car is very neutral and has has no noticeable over or understeer. I would say yours would handle similar.


I find this very hard to believe... I an addco rear bar (25.4mm) with an fe2 front and throttle off oversteer was VERY bad. i would guess that you haven't had the car to the limits.

I run matching addcos front and rear and the car is as neutral as can be with just a hint of oversteer at the limits.


hm.....so that 2mm on the front bar makes that much difference...


honestly, in my experience yes.

i started with an addco rear and a stock front bar. went hot into a corner and lifted. (yes I realize lifting mid corner is bad but I also know that cooking a corner happens, especially when pushing the limits, and it's better to have a car that lets go progressively vs all out loss of traction) ended up facing 180 degrees from the direction I was traveling. snap oversteer and there was no catching it.

next I ran the stock bar with upgraded endlinks/frame mount bushings and the addco rear. while the oversteer was more controllable, it was far from neutral.

the addco f/r setup that I run now is by far the best IMO. car breaks away evenly with just a touch of oversteer at the limit.





Re: Sway bar advice...
Sunday, March 24, 2013 4:02 PM
Perfect..

Ill keep my eye out for a new eibach front bar.

Re: Sway bar advice...
Sunday, March 24, 2013 4:16 PM
Ever pull the front bar out of a 3rd gen cav before? It's a treat.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: Sway bar advice...
Sunday, March 24, 2013 5:10 PM
I havent had to yet. Always had sways in my cars, and my last one came with front and back eibachs.

But coming up in a bit here I am going to be pulling my front control arms and suspension and replacing it all. So maybe ill do it then.

If not ill do it next year when I have more time.
Re: Sway bar advice...
Monday, March 25, 2013 9:23 AM
what years did cavs come with stock rear sway bars??


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Re: Sway bar advice...
Monday, March 25, 2013 9:37 AM
^^No third gen did.


I have a FE3 front sway bar, and a RKSport rear bar. It had snap over steer off throttle.....the bad kind. It was also a little oversteery...yes oversteery. I'm installing an eibach front bar this summer to help remove that slight problem.

I'm also on KYB AGXs and Eiback pro springs.





Re: Sway bar advice...
Monday, March 25, 2013 3:57 PM
LS sports did come with a "rear sway"

It was a bar welded on the inside of the twist beam.
03-05 Cavalier:
FE1: 19mm front sway bar.
FE2: 24mm front sway bar, 19mm rear sway bar.

Ill try and get a pic of it.
Re: Sway bar advice...
Monday, March 25, 2013 8:17 PM
well I love my Addco...she works great! now if I could only fix my major torque steer issue


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.
Re: Sway bar advice...
Tuesday, March 26, 2013 3:43 AM
The stiffening bar in the rear torsion beam is not a true sway bar.





Re: Sway bar advice...
Tuesday, May 07, 2013 9:26 AM
Hmm interesting... the biggest problem I see here is the fact that everyone has different mods. There are so many variables to account for. For example if you have a lowering kit that’s going to throw off your bump steer by a mile. Unless you have 1 ton springs in the front of your car, so the car cant physically roll, your alignment is going to be off... well in that case it still wouldn’t matter because you have a lower center of gravity witch would help with weight distribution… and that’s just the tip of the iceberg I haven’t mentioned, air pressures, tread wear ratings, tread depth, tire size, added or removed weight, control arm bushings… and the list goes on…The moral of all that, is the fact that you can’t really compare your car to the next guys, if every detail is different.

Honestly I probably wouldn’t worry too much about brand or sway bar size. Honestly there are 1001 ways to make your car handle way better and most of them are going to be WAY more cost effective. I mean seriously some of you do auto x and I haven’t heard a single discussion about tires. There is something seriously wrong with this picture.
Re: Sway bar advice...
Tuesday, May 07, 2013 7:33 PM
Until somebody spends money to actually test each bar on a similar car with true data aquisition hardware it will all be from experience. In my experience, a big rear bar is not the way to increase grip in the front of the car. Will it help the car rotate? Sure. Can it over rotate? Yes very easily. I've run the same bar on multiple setups with the same results.

If the op asks about sway bars, we're gonna share experiences about sway bars. While I agree good tires are extremely important, sways are one of the cheapest suspension mods that provide a drastic difference in the handling of the j platform.



Re: Sway bar advice...
Tuesday, May 07, 2013 7:35 PM
P.s. 2 seconds to look in the op's profile and you'll see he runs conti extreme contacts on his summer setup.




Re: Sway bar advice...
Wednesday, May 08, 2013 4:30 AM
I am running an Addco front and a Progress 22mm rear bar on a Z/24 trailing arm(with the stiffening bar). I only autocrossed once with this setup and do not remember if i had any oversteer. But i was able to keep up with the ^^^^madman^^^ that posted above me when we ran one of our favorite roads. I didnt feel any oversteer on that run, but then the cav wasnt at it's limits.



Re: Sway bar advice...
Wednesday, May 08, 2013 7:06 AM
Tinkles(KGM) wrote:

I am running an Addco front and a Progress 22mm rear bar on a Z/24 trailing arm(with the stiffening bar). I only autocrossed once with this setup and do not remember if i had any oversteer. But i was able to keep up with the ^^^^madman^^^ that posted above me when we ran one of our favorite roads. I didnt feel any oversteer on that run, but then the cav wasnt at it's limits.


The Progress bar, if I am thinking right, is a much better design. The ends actually bolt to the twist beam instead of having end links. less bar with less unsprung weight does pretty much the same work, its a shame they are hard to get your hands on these days.





Re: Sway bar advice...
Thursday, May 09, 2013 2:44 AM
strat81 wrote:

Until somebody spends money to actually test each bar on a similar car with true data aquisition hardware it will all be from experience. In my experience, a big rear bar is not the way to increase grip in the front of the car. Will it help the car rotate? Sure. Can it over rotate? Yes very easily. I've run the same bar on multiple setups with the same results.

If the op asks about sway bars, we're gonna share experiences about sway bars. While I agree good tires are extremely important, sways are one of the cheapest suspension mods that provide a drastic difference in the handling of the j platform.

Ty for the info I race at a local short track… and I’ve always had problems with the car from the center of the corner off and I understand that a bigger rear sway bar would affect corner entry in a very negative way… but anyway long story short, ty for the info and PLEASE report what you find I would be very grateful.
Re: Sway bar advice...
Thursday, May 09, 2013 2:46 AM
under steer issues from center off...
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