rwd cavalier - Suspension and Brake Forum

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rwd cavalier
Sunday, June 23, 2013 11:06 PM
so im making a rwd cavalier and am stuck on what to do with the front end. since there will no longer be axles in the front spindles to hold the wheel bearing in place i need to find new front end parts that i can fit but dont have to worry about wheel bearings falling out, any ideas? i know this is not the first rwd cavi out there

Re: rwd cavalier
Sunday, June 23, 2013 11:32 PM
Pretty sure they won't fall out. They bolt in with 3 bolts. I seen who had welded diffs and broke axles at the track just remove the axle and leave the cup in the tranny and drive hope without 1 of the axles in. All the bolt does on the end of the axle is keep the axle in the hub. Rr there should be no issue with driving without axles and no need to change the front unless you are swapping to bigger brakes. That would be a big safety hazard if you broke an axle and that held the bearing togeather. There would be a lot of accidents.




On the inside my car looks like a fighter jet.
Re: rwd cavalier
Monday, June 24, 2013 12:12 AM
Rob Dotterer wrote:

Pretty sure they won't fall out. They bolt in with 3 bolts. I seen who had welded diffs and broke axles at the track just remove the axle and leave the cup in the tranny and drive hope without 1 of the axles in. All the bolt does on the end of the axle is keep the axle in the hub. Rr there should be no issue with driving without axles and no need to change the front unless you are swapping to bigger brakes. That would be a big safety hazard if you broke an axle and that held the bearing togeather. There would be a lot of accidents.


That cv axle nut hold the wheel bearing together. Just take the cv axle apart and bolt the wheel side into the hub, torque to spec.


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs
Re: rwd cavalier
Monday, June 24, 2013 5:40 AM
Oedwards wrote:

Rob Dotterer wrote:

Pretty sure they won't fall out. They bolt in with 3 bolts. I seen who had welded diffs and broke axles at the track just remove the axle and leave the cup in the tranny and drive hope without 1 of the axles in. All the bolt does on the end of the axle is keep the axle in the hub. Rr there should be no issue with driving without axles and no need to change the front unless you are swapping to bigger brakes. That would be a big safety hazard if you broke an axle and that held the bearing togeather. There would be a lot of accidents.


That cv axle nut hold the wheel bearing together. Just take the cv axle apart and bolt the wheel side into the hub, torque to spec.


X2. Not sure if the cavaliers bearing would come apart but I have seen this happen on other vehicles....


2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires - **SOLD**
2014 Kia Forte Koup SX 6spd - 1.6L Turbo - My new car
2015 Kia Sorento EX V6 AWD - Wifes Car

Re: rwd cavalier
Monday, June 24, 2013 6:00 AM
No they will come apart(eventually)
I had this happen to my own car back in the spring of 2010 after I for done building it. I had the motor and suspension in with no axles yet. I had it on a flatbed and after we got it off we were pushing it and the driverside seperated and the car came down and fell on the wheel. Luckily the wheel didn't shoot off the car completely or it could of been worse!
Re: rwd cavalier
Monday, June 24, 2013 6:38 AM
All you do is leave the stub outter portion of the axle in the hub, and keep the nuts torqued. This gives the hub the strength to keep it's shape and hold the bearings.





Re: rwd cavalier
Tuesday, June 25, 2013 7:40 AM
Mr. Quick wrote:

All you do is leave the stub outter portion of the axle in the hub, and keep the nuts torqued. This gives the hub the strength to keep it's shape and hold the bearings.


this. our wheel bearings fall apart bad enough even WITH the strength of the axle holding them together. they are designed to be used this way and engineered as such. you HAVE to have the axle stub in there or they are going to fall apart. well they will anyway, its just a matter of time lol

OP, good call man. keep at it, with good questions like this one im sure you'll get there. what are your plans/goals?



M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!
Re: rwd cavalier
Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:50 AM




Re: rwd cavalier
Sunday, July 07, 2013 6:14 PM
James Cahill wrote:



what knuckle is that?



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Re: rwd cavalier
Sunday, July 28, 2013 6:28 PM
I believe the wheel bearings don't require the axle to keep things together. The axle bolts in because this is the non sliding portion. Shaft movement due to suspension happens within the transmission. I didn't compensate when I did mine. Car is soon to head off to the paint shop via flat bed. When it returns, I will go over the suspension to make sure all is good and tight. Because of Corey's experience, I will take a serious look at the wheel bearings. In the meantime, I'm going to call Moog this week to confirm and get back to you.

I used GM full sized aluminum spindles. Switched left with right and put a universal rack and pinion up in the front. leaves the firewall open. Many other details to cover the rest, - if you still interested.

MikeG



Re: rwd cavalier
Sunday, July 28, 2013 10:21 PM
If that was true why do improper torqued axle nuts cause premature failure???

Re: rwd cavalier
Monday, July 29, 2013 5:10 AM
Mikey G wrote:

I believe the wheel bearings don't require the axle to keep things together. The axle bolts in because this is the non sliding portion. Shaft movement due to suspension happens within the transmission.
While the reason for the nut is to hold the axle in place, the hubs are designed to have the axle there. Without the axle there, the center portion of the hub, that the bearings ride on, does not have a thick enough wall to support the pressure put on it, so it deforms quickly, causing the hubs to come loose. The axle inside of it gives it the extra strength needed to hold it's shape.
Mikey G wrote:

I didn't compensate when I did mine...I used GM full sized aluminum spindles. Switched left with right and put a universal rack and pinion up in the front. leaves the firewall open. Many other details to cover the rest, - if you still interested.

MikeG
Please post pictures of your setup. Definitely sounds like an interesting setup.

However, to address your statements about the hubs, I have two things to say:
1) If you used fullsize GM spindles, you didn't use J-body hubs, so your claim to not have to compensate doesn't necessarily apply. If you used spindles from a RWD car, you have a solid splindle inside the bearings, unlike a FWD hub.
2) Even if you did use J-body hubs, how many miles have you put on them without an axle stub in them?






Re: rwd cavalier
Monday, July 29, 2013 5:27 AM
Pretty sure you need a axle stub in there.

I had my old sunfire and it had no motor. I pulled the axles out and pushed it around when I needed to and the bearing/hub blew apart in no time. Maybe it was just a coincidence
Re: rwd cavalier
Monday, July 29, 2013 6:07 AM
You raise a very valid point, and it is for this exact reason (limited wall thiuckness) why i want to get in touch with Moog tech and see what they have to say.
The wheel bearings form the JBody ang full sized GM are of the exact same design but larger.
Regardless what Moog has to say, I will aquire some used half shafts and machine off the CV joint and tork to spec. this will assure a 100% safe situation and not assume anything.
Thanks BTW -love your sig. Mr.Quick
Daylan - Would like to hear and see more about your build.
My build "Project V8 Z24" in the performance section.




Re: rwd cavalier
Monday, July 29, 2013 6:55 AM
I just realized that I had been reading that thread the other day. You've done some very good work to it.

If you're using the full size FWD knuckles and hubs, you DEFINITELY want to put the stub axles in there. They are still desiged with the axle being in there. Taking it out reduces the structural integrity of the hub, and it will wear out fast. It's a cheap and easy solution. You don't even need good axles to do it, the joints can be junk, you just need that shaft with the nut to give the hub internal support.






Re: rwd cavalier
Monday, July 29, 2013 9:01 AM
I spoke with Moog Tech. They said all the models with a bore / splines was designed to have the support from the axle. Exactly what you stated. I wish to thank you for your imput (and compliment. This certainly prevented a disaster.
The scrap yards are asking an average of $35.00 per side, because they are considered as cores.

I will up date when I get my solution done
Have a great day guys



Re: rwd cavalier
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:28 AM
Capn Bloodbeard wrote:

James Cahill wrote:



what knuckle is that?


H body (Bonneville, STS, etc) with the steering arm cut off and swapped left to right. It also has an adapter plate to use the J body bearing.
.



Re: rwd cavalier
Saturday, August 03, 2013 5:05 PM
Picked up a pair of used axles for the appropriate wheel bearing I had - W Body

Cut and cleaned up with 3/16" left as a shoulder

Installed into bearing hub

MikeyG



Re: rwd cavalier
Saturday, August 03, 2013 6:42 PM
the swap to front steer was how I planned on accomplishing this as well

just make sure to maintain your ackerman, and it'll drive just like stock.


good luck with your project.





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