I'm still curious as why these can not be two pieces with a shoulder on each side to prevent the bushing from tearing through?
Stephen (manta z) wrote:I'm still curious as why these can not be two pieces with a shoulder on each side to prevent the bushing from tearing through?
you mean like lzm's design?
juiced... $15 seems pretty cheap for a spherical bearing. are these just an off the shelf or have they been tested for automotive use and inspected for imperfections in the manufacturing process?
If you look at the pics that I posted from Global West, there is a shoulder on both the aluminum collar and on the delrin insert, most likely to keep the tear from occurring (as Mantra mentioned). On their site, they are selling the pair for $110. I know that for our applications it would be considered to be one-off parts, so the price would go up somewhat.
For cost purposes, there could be some give and play on the exact thickness of aluminum used with the delrin. You can make the aluminum thinner and have more delrin, or vice versa to have a lot of aluminum and minimal delrin (as Global West has done). I just am under the impression that the aluminum collar would protect the delrin for longer survivability of the part.
However, you would have the delrin lip facing one part of the trailing arm (directly over the aluminum lip), closing that side off to dirt and debris. This is how the OEM bushing is built. I picked up one of the OEM bushings and can post pics if desired.
We all know that the poly bushings are incorrect for our application, as they just get destroyed. My guess is that the torsion forces on the bushings are the main cause of that carnage. That's probably why the factory OEM bushings have the steel collars with a steel lip on top of the rubber. FYI, the beam is not supposed to twist. It's only supposed to go up and down. That is the purpose of having these bushings installed in the first place, to keep this twisting motion down to a minimum.
Nah, just a standard off the shelf bearing. I dont see where any of that is necessary. You dont need anything special. IF they were to fail they would be captive by the bolt and the bracket on the car so nothing too bad would happen.
The $15 3/4" sperical bearing I have in mind has an radial load rating of like 31,000lbs. They arent as strong axially, I dont have the acutal numbers in front of me, but they should be MORE than sufficient.
Dan
Currently on jackstands.
Project updates and stuff:
www.clubhousecustoms.com
email: dan at clubhousecustoms dot com
Dan, wouldn't those spherical bushings be hella loud to drive on for a DD? There isn't much that would dampen the metal on metal noise...?
On a side note, Jeffie, I don't mind volunteering to buy a pair of your full Delrin bushings to test under normal DD stress situations. Out of desperation to get the 'fire back on the road, I went out and bought a pair of the OEM bushings (which weren't that bad at all, ended up being around $64 after tax for the pair) and a pair of OEM insulators. What I didn't realize is that those insulators help silence the metal on metal contact from the steel top of the OEM bushing to the trailing arm. Thanks to Skyler for telling me to buy those!
My wife's sunfire is a DD, and we drove it over 18k so far this year. If your part is to have any failure, I think that all these miles would make or break it. I don't mind paying you for them to test.
I just wanted to throw out other alternative ideas that have been proven to work on other vehicle applications, so that an informed decision could be reached.
strat81 wrote:Stephen (manta z) wrote:I'm still curious as why these can not be two pieces with a shoulder on each side to prevent the bushing from tearing through?
you mean like lzm's design?
juiced... $15 seems pretty cheap for a spherical bearing. are these just an off the shelf or have they been tested for automotive use and inspected for imperfections in the manufacturing process?
Was LZM's two piece and shouldered both sides? i thought it was 1 piece and just one side shouldered. but i don't remember, i bought them and they sat in the package for a month before i sold them and and that was a while back so i don't remember lol
Stephen (manta z) wrote:strat81 wrote:Stephen (manta z) wrote:I'm still curious as why these can not be two pieces with a shoulder on each side to prevent the bushing from tearing through?
you mean like lzm's design?
juiced... $15 seems pretty cheap for a spherical bearing. are these just an off the shelf or have they been tested for automotive use and inspected for imperfections in the manufacturing process?
Was LZM's two piece and shouldered both sides? i thought it was 1 piece and just one side shouldered. but i don't remember, i bought them and they sat in the package for a month before i sold them and and that was a while back so i don't remember lol
no they were 2 pieces.
this is the start of my signature: have you read the
RULES yet?
my carDomain updated 6/11/10 Forged and Supercharged
Metalball wrote:FYI, the beam is not supposed to twist. It's only supposed to go up and down. That is the purpose of having these bushings installed in the first place, to keep this twisting motion down to a minimum
this is true but wait a minute.. isn't the suspension called a twist beam/ torsion beam suspension?
by the nature of the beast when you go over bumps or during cornering, when one wheel tries to move independently of the other you are going to get a rotational force perpendicular to pivot of the suspension.
I was under the impression this is why people are saying to use sphericals and not regualr bearings... (or hard plastics that will shatter)
if you look at the pictures on this article (omg wikipedia I know)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twist_beam you will see what i mean
if i'm mistaken, please elaborate. I'm interested in the topic since I have the crappy LZM bushings in the rear of my car right now and would prefer something much much better.
if you could explain to me how a regular needle-bearing used in place of the stock bushings would work and not shatter from twisting forces, I would be very thankful.
How is the group buy coming along I would like to buy aset of bushings when they are ready.
Once sufficient testing is completed the GP will go up.
I don't want to offer a product that isn't 100%.
I <3 JGM
I think bigfoot is blurry,
that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry. And that's extra
scary to me. There's a large, out-of-focus monster, roaming the countryside.
"Run! He's fuzzy!" "Get outta here!"
In Loving Memory of Phil Martin December 14 2005
Do you have a time frame when they will be ready?
Looking for a spring time GP.
I <3 JGM
I think bigfoot is blurry,
that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry. And that's extra
scary to me. There's a large, out-of-focus monster, roaming the countryside.
"Run! He's fuzzy!" "Get outta here!"
In Loving Memory of Phil Martin December 14 2005
I need a time machine, badly.
Excellent. Hopefully Ill have money then.
Club Teh Jeffie wrote:Once sufficient testing is completed the GP will go up.
Sooo, what kind of sufficient testing is going to take place? Someone going to put thousands of miles on these before they are released? Warrenty going to be included with these? Just wondering for obvious reasons.
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD
AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
i want a pair of bushings....asap
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, January 04, 2011 1:59 PM
RIP JESSE GERARD.....Youll always be in my thoughts and prayers...
bump for progress ???
RIP JESSE GERARD.....Youll always be in my thoughts and prayers...
z yaaaa wrote:WHITECAVY wrote:Club Teh Jeffie wrote:Once sufficient testing is completed the GP will go up.
Sooo, what kind of sufficient testing is going to take place? Someone going to put thousands of miles on these before they are released? Warrenty going to be included with these? Just wondering for obvious reasons.
after seeing what crapens to the LZM ones... ill be happy to see a set last thousands and THEN buy. 
it really is too bad i have two sets of LZM ones... oh well, paper weights. 
I understand your pain.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Jeffie,
My offer is still open if you want these to be tested in a DD environment... Shoot me a PM if interested.
Nate
Ok, my delrin bushings are installed. So far, I say good job Jeffie!
My trailing arm still had the original bushings, with around 135,000 miles on them, so needless to say, there wasn't much left of them. I installed these on my coupe, which is more of a semi-daily driver/occasional run down the track car for me.
I installed these about 3 weeks ago, and unfortunately haven't gotten in as much testing as I'd like to by now given the snow we've been getting, but I'm going to guess I have about 400-500 miles on them so far. Most noticable change felt right off the bat is no more slop in the rear end (which given the condition of the rubber bushings, I can see why the rear wanted to walk away on its own). I have a nice hilly and windy road right behind my house, so I took a couple hard runs down there and really pushed it into turns...the worn stock mounts would usually produce clunks and metal on metal banging (I have relatively new strut mounts all around..maybe 10k miles ago...so I eliminated those from being noisy.
My plan over the next month or so will be to put as many miles as I can on them...I DD my sedan, but I'll be sure to have the coupe on the road every weekend if possible and really put these through the ringer. So far I'm happy, and as long as they continue to be solid like they are now, I'll be buying a set for my sedan when the GP goes up. I'd be curious to feel the results of these on a completely unmodded DD.
Thumbs up to Club Teh Jeffie!!
Good update, keep banging on them, and let us know.
Bump for updates. Im dropping the trailing arm in the near future and this seems appropriate.
How are they holding up for everyone?
TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:Bump for updates. Im dropping the trailing arm in the near future and this seems appropriate.
How are they holding up for everyone?
So far so good. I haven't gotten the chance to put too many miles on mine due to our miseable weather, but I have maybe 1500 miles on my bushings now...dropped the TA over the weekend to inspect the bushings and they look great. Bushing still looks as solid as when I dropped it in, no indication of the lip failing like the LZM bushings, or any other signs of impending problem.
Rear end of the car still feels just as solid as when I swapped in the bushings, and when I do have the chance to drive the car, I make sure to really push it into turns and give the bushings some abuse.
When I have the chance I'll have to drop the TA again and take some pics.
So far these have my stamp of approval!
