Lowering Springs help!!!! - Suspension and Brake Forum

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Lowering Springs help!!!!
Wednesday, June 04, 2014 6:47 PM
Hey guys, Im new to the .org but have owned 2 j bodys so far and absolutely love my cavi. My sunfire was a POS and im glad i got rid of it.

Alright so before you all tell me to get coilovers, let me just say its not going to happen. I'm a broke college kid and dont have $1000 to spend on my car. I am planning on getting lowering springs though from Megan racing for my 2003 Cavi LS Sport.

Ive talked to 2 of my friends about this subject, one of them drives a lowered Genesis Coupe and both are pretty knowledgeable on cars and their suspensions. Both of them said that i dont need to replace my struts are shocks since im only using the lowering springs for the looks. Basically im not gonna be racing or beating on my car so im not gonna be putting on any added stress on the car. I just want my car to sit lower because i hate how high she is.

My question to you guys is whether or not theyre right and i wouldnt need to replace my struts or shocks because im not lowering the car for performance purposes.


Got heem!

Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Wednesday, June 04, 2014 7:00 PM
They are 100% wrong. Lowering spring have different spring rates than stock springs and our stock struts cannot handle it. The factory struts will ride like crap and will fail. There is also the increased chance of crashing because the struts cannot properly dampen the springs.




Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Wednesday, June 04, 2014 7:04 PM
What about for the lowering springs that say they work and perform with stock struts and shocks? I know eibach pro kits say that on their website and same with the tein s tech.


Got heem!
Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Wednesday, June 04, 2014 7:11 PM
Also Ive read that as long as the drop isnt more than 1.5" then you shouldnt have a problem with the stock parts. The megan racing springs are a 1.4" drop so shouldnt I still be fine in those regards?


Got heem!
Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Wednesday, June 04, 2014 9:17 PM
Not at all. These are economy cars and were never made with performance in mind. Our stock struts are only safe for stock springs.




Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Wednesday, June 04, 2014 10:09 PM
The amount of drop really doesn't make a difference. It's the rate of damping. The stock dampers simply aren't valved for the higher spring rates of aftermarket springs.

Your buddies may know quite a bit about suspensions, but they probably don't know much about economy car suspensions.



Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:36 AM
Chris Kass wrote:

Ive talked to 2 of my friends about this subject, one of them drives a lowered Genesis Coupe and both are pretty knowledgeable on cars and their suspensions. Both of them said that i dont need to replace my struts are shocks since im only using the lowering springs for the looks. Basically im not gonna be racing or beating on my car so im not gonna be putting on any added stress on the car. I just want my car to sit lower because i hate how high she is.
Let's put two things into perspective:

1) You're 20. Chances are your two friends are of similar age. That means they've been driving for 4-5 years, maybe. They may know more than most of your other friends about cars, but that's relative, and it doesn't mean that they're that knowledgable. Take if from the guys here who have been building cars for over 10 years (minimum).

2) Your friend drives a Genesis. Again, maybe he knows a lot about that car, but he probably isn't real familiar with the J-body suspension. Some cars have better factory struts and shocks than the J-body, and can be lowered a little without changing them. The J-body has weak factory struts (and aftermarket factory replacements are no better) that can only handle the spring rates of the factory springs. All lowering springs are considerably higher spring rates, and the factory shocks and struts can not handle these rates. The car becomes bouncy, and the struts will blow, making the car even more bouncy.


To answer your question, yes, they're wrong, and you need better struts. You don't need to spend $1,000 on lowering your car, but you should plan on $600-ish anyway. Tokico HP Blues or KYB AGX struts are what you should be looking for. They're the most affordable performance struts for the J-body you can get.

Bottom line, do it once, and do it right. You're going to have to replace your struts one way or another, so just get the right ones with your springs. Also get yourself a new set of strut mounts so you can have a whole new setup that will last you, and you won't have to worry about it again.

You will not regret doing it the right way. You WILL regret doing it the wrong way.






Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:42 AM
Chris Kass wrote:

Also Ive read that as long as the drop isnt more than 1.5" then you shouldnt have a problem with the stock parts. The megan racing springs are a 1.4" drop so shouldnt I still be fine in those regards?


I'm going to point this out for you in case you read the wrong product page but the Megan springs are a 2 inch drop in front and 1.9 inch in the rear

These are the Megan springs here Megan Racing

This is a direct quote from the page


Specifications & Features:

- Application: 1995-2002 Chevrolet Cavalier 2.4L 4-Cylinder

- Color in ORANGE

- Lower 2" front and 1.9" rear <------- Read that line!

- Springs rate - 250 Front and 230 Rear



2002 Pontiac Sunfire SE Sedan 2.2l Ecotec 4 Speed Auto.
Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:45 AM
backpacker3 wrote:

Chris Kass wrote:

Also Ive read that as long as the drop isnt more than 1.5" then you shouldnt have a problem with the stock parts. The megan racing springs are a 1.4" drop so shouldnt I still be fine in those regards?


I'm going to point this out for you in case you read the wrong product page but the Megan springs are a 2 inch drop in front and 1.9 inch in the rear

These are the Megan springs here Megan Racing

Those are for up to 02 cavs, I have an 03 so they wouldn't use the same springs.

But thanks for looking out for me everyone, I'll save up a bit more so I can replace everything instead of just the lowering springs


Got heem!
Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:31 AM
What about Monroe struts? Are those good or should I stick to the KYB AGX's?


Got heem!
Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Thursday, June 05, 2014 6:41 PM
Monroe struts are garbage there is a reason why they tell you to replace them every 60,000 miles vs the longer warranty of better struts. Go with the AGX. Oh and you're right about the springs I didn't see what year you had in the original post so I went with the before 03 ones.


2002 Pontiac Sunfire SE Sedan 2.2l Ecotec 4 Speed Auto.

Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:05 PM
my car only has about 66,000 on it, bought it with 63,000 so I'm not really concerned about the mileage part of replacing the Monroes if I get them. but I found these struts from Sensen and theres a lot of good reviews on them. The only "bad" reviews are just the people who constantly just say get coilovers even though the thread specifically says they dont want coilovers. I think I have a good set up that will work for me and my brother is a mechanic and he says as long as I dont beat on the car and since I dont really rack up mileage (3,000 in a year of owning it) then that strut/spring combo should work out fine. It might be just a bit stiff but i can live with it.


Got heem!
Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Friday, June 06, 2014 7:19 AM
I love it when people come here, ask a question, don't like the answer, and tell us that they're just going to do it anyway. LOL

Again,
do it right, you won't regret it. Do it wrong, and you WILL regret it.

There are only a few struts out there that can handle the increased spring rate of ANY lower spring. Period.
They are, in order from cheapest to most expensive:

KYB AGX
Tokico HP Blue
Tokico D-SPec
Koni

Nothing else will handle the spring rate, and yes, I've tried the Monroe, so I speak from experience.





Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Friday, June 06, 2014 7:21 AM
Chris Kass wrote:

Those are for up to 02 cavs, I have an 03 so they wouldn't use the same springs.
There is no difference between 95-02 and 03-05. They take the same struts and springs. I'm not sure why any site would have different parts listed, but either set can be used on any 95-05 J-body.





Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Friday, June 06, 2014 8:48 AM
From day one the ride will suck and the car will be a danger to everyone on the road because THE STRUTS CANNOT PROPERLY THE DAMPEN THE SPRINGS. Suspension is something that if you cheap out on and do it incorrectly it can kill you or others. There have been quite a few people on this site that cheaped out, told us that we are stupid and their hacked up suspension is fine, and then a few months later posted pics of their totaled cars.

The mileage doesnt matter, because from the moment you put those lower springs on the junk stock replacement struts they are dangerous.




Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Friday, June 06, 2014 3:09 PM
I'm not getting the Monroe's or stock replacement struts, I'm getting Sensen struts. And I am taking all your words into consideration. If these struts don't work as well as I hoped, at even the slightest sign of a problem I'll change everything back to stick until I get some KYB AGX's.


Got heem!
Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Friday, June 06, 2014 6:21 PM
Mr. Quick wrote:

Chris Kass wrote:

Those are for up to 02 cavs, I have an 03 so they wouldn't use the same springs.
There is no difference between 95-02 and 03-05. They take the same struts and springs. I'm not sure why any site would have different parts listed, but either set can be used on any 95-05 J-body.


I thought it was wierd too but there are two different springs for cavaliers/sunfires on Megan racing. The ones I posted before Megan racing 95-02 and then these megan racing 03-05 supposedly for 03-05 with different lowering heights I was wondering what the difference was since 03 and up was still 3rd gen. I might consider these when I do my suspension since there the same price but slightly less drop.


2002 Pontiac Sunfire SE Sedan 2.2l Ecotec 4 Speed Auto.
Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Friday, June 06, 2014 7:09 PM
backpacker3 wrote:

Mr. Quick wrote:

Chris Kass wrote:

Those are for up to 02 cavs, I have an 03 so they wouldn't use the same springs.
There is no difference between 95-02 and 03-05. They take the same struts and springs. I'm not sure why any site would have different parts listed, but either set can be used on any 95-05 J-body.


I thought it was wierd too but there are two different springs for cavaliers/sunfires on Megan racing. The ones I posted before Megan racing 95-02 and then these megan racing 03-05 supposedly for 03-05 with different lowering heights I was wondering what the difference was since 03 and up was still 3rd gen. I might consider these when I do my suspension since there the same price but slightly less drop.


you can actually get them for $85 from AndysAutoSport.com, thats where I saw them at.


Got heem!
Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Friday, June 06, 2014 7:24 PM
Chris Kass wrote:

I'm not getting the Monroe's or stock replacement struts, I'm getting Sensen struts. And I am taking all your words into consideration. If these struts don't work as well as I hoped, at even the slightest sign of a problem I'll change everything back to stick until I get some KYB AGX's.



Actually you are. Mr. Quick listed the only safe struts to lower on.




Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Friday, June 06, 2014 8:10 PM
Wow $85 I thought for sure that would be front and rear sold separately but it's all four that's a really good price!


2002 Pontiac Sunfire SE Sedan 2.2l Ecotec 4 Speed Auto.
Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Monday, June 09, 2014 10:07 AM
Chris Kass wrote:

I'm not getting the Monroe's or stock replacement struts, I'm getting Sensen struts. And I am taking all your words into consideration. If these struts don't work as well as I hoped, at even the slightest sign of a problem I'll change everything back to stick until I get some KYB AGX's.
And you will have wasted the money you spent on the cheap ones, making your project more expensive than if you just buy the right ones the first time.

But hey, don't listen to us. You're just another one in the long line of people who are planning on doing the wrong thing, and only ask here hoping that someone is going to tell them it's going to be OK, but when you don't get the answer you want, you go ahead and do what you were going to do anyway.







Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Monday, June 09, 2014 10:09 AM
backpacker3 wrote:

Mr. Quick wrote:

Chris Kass wrote:

Those are for up to 02 cavs, I have an 03 so they wouldn't use the same springs.
There is no difference between 95-02 and 03-05. They take the same struts and springs. I'm not sure why any site would have different parts listed, but either set can be used on any 95-05 J-body.


I thought it was wierd too but there are two different springs for cavaliers/sunfires on Megan racing. The ones I posted before Megan racing 95-02 and then these megan racing 03-05 supposedly for 03-05 with different lowering heights I was wondering what the difference was since 03 and up was still 3rd gen. I might consider these when I do my suspension since there the same price but slightly less drop.
By the way, I looked into this, and Megan Racing has apparently come out with a 95-02 and an 03-05 because of the Eco being a little lighter, so they say the 95-02 ones will lower the front of an 03-05 less than it would a 95-02. However, I have major doubts of this, considering the increased spring rate will likely not have much of a noticable difference in ride height over a small weight difference.

It does, at least, give you different drop options.





Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Monday, June 09, 2014 12:05 PM
Mr. Quick wrote:

backpacker3 wrote:

Mr. Quick wrote:

Chris Kass wrote:

Those are for up to 02 cavs, I have an 03 so they wouldn't use the same springs.
There is no difference between 95-02 and 03-05. They take the same struts and springs. I'm not sure why any site would have different parts listed, but either set can be used on any 95-05 J-body.


I thought it was wierd too but there are two different springs for cavaliers/sunfires on Megan racing. The ones I posted before Megan racing 95-02 and then these megan racing 03-05 supposedly for 03-05 with different lowering heights I was wondering what the difference was since 03 and up was still 3rd gen. I might consider these when I do my suspension since there the same price but slightly less drop.
By the way, I looked into this, and Megan Racing has apparently come out with a 95-02 and an 03-05 because of the Eco being a little lighter, so they say the 95-02 ones will lower the front of an 03-05 less than it would a 95-02. However, I have major doubts of this, considering the increased spring rate will likely not have much of a noticable difference in ride height over a small weight difference.

It does, at least, give you different drop options.


Interesting. I was wondering why they have two different sets I'm surprised they thought the little bit of weight would make enough of a difference to need separate springs


2002 Pontiac Sunfire SE Sedan 2.2l Ecotec 4 Speed Auto.
Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Monday, June 09, 2014 5:35 PM
"TEIN S.Tech Springs are an excellent step towards suspension tuning. They offer approximately a 1.5 inch drop for a more aggressive appearance and increased road holding capability. Designed to be used with OEM or OEM replacement shocks. Each application is road tested in North America for the proper balance between performance and comfort. Comes with a 1 year limited warranty, spring length is guaranteed not to sag more than 5mm, and be clear of any manufacturer defects."

That's straight from the TEIN website. Is that complete BS or are they actually designed for OEM and OEM replacement struts?


Got heem!
Re: Lowering Springs help!!!!
Monday, June 09, 2014 5:44 PM
Can Chris use Kyb gr-2 shocks and struts with lowering springs? These are a higher quality oem replacement. Just wondering for those of us on a bugdet.
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