Update on my control arms.
I just got them back from Accu-Fab & Construction and they look great.
The holes have been properly welded and can't even tell where they welded.
I'll have some pictures up on both of the control arms I'm doing as I progress on this project for both aluminum and stock control arms.
So far this project is coming along nicely albeit a bit slow.
I can only work on this over the weekends and this past weekend, had to go car searching for my nephew all weekend so I didn't have the chance to work on the control arms.
He wound up buying a nice Honda Civic, 1994 model, EX with the D16z6 engine. Automatic is all we could find and not bad for only $1800 bucks.
I'll be headed to the junkyard this weekend to look for another set of aluminum control arms and a set of auto tranny mounts for the 4t40e tranny. I may try modifying these to make them solid mounts.
I'll hopefully have pictures of the control arms by this weekend or earlier and keep things updated with the progress.
Misnblu
Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO! 
Misnblu wrote: and a set of auto tranny mounts for the 4t40e tranny. I may try modifying these to make them solid mounts.
FYI, look in the Transmission forum, Aaron from TTR is going to be releasing his soon.
OK so here's my question. If you were doing the NWF brake upgrade with these control arms, would swapping the inner cv as opposed to the outer cv on the axels give us the extra .5 of an inch? If I remember everything right you could then just keep the ball joint in the new control arms. After that you just need to slot a strut bolt to adjust your camber. Clearance might be an issue with the fender, but in theory couldn't you also fit a wider rim if the fenders weren't in the way?
I have been thinking that if you leave the N-body control arms stock (long) you should be able to use the full N-body axles.
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
MadJack, I know about this and am subscribed to the proceedings there.
I'm anticipating to purchase a set once they come out.
I'm just going to tear out a set from a Cavy so I know what I'm doing when I replace mine with the new poly units.
If they don't make them, I'll then have a set to play with and maybe modify them to work with the windshield sealant rubber. Either way, I'm not going to lose.
Livid, that's a good idea but then how would the car look if you didn't do the IRS swap to compensate for the extra width of the front.
That's too much for me to do although there are others that want this information.
I'm actually enjoying reading all of the things that JBO is doing to make ultimate J-bodies.
I already have aftermarket axles planned that will handle 400+ hp so won't have an issue with them at all.
Misnblu
Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!
Quiklilcav wrote:I'm pretty sure that you can use the N axles with the unmodified N control arms, but I'm just not sure why you would bother doing this instead of getting rims with a smaller offset. By modifying the control arms, you keep the suspension geometry correct. Also, for this drastic of a change, you would be better off using camber plates instead of slotting the strut. Again, keeping the geometry correct.
The reason I am interested in the extra .5 is that there are a nice set of 17x9 rims I want. I'll roll/flare my fenders if I have to, my big concern is clearance behind the wheel with that wide of a rim.
LIVID wrote:Quiklilcav wrote:I'm pretty sure that you can use the N axles with the unmodified N control arms, but I'm just not sure why you would bother doing this instead of getting rims with a smaller offset. By modifying the control arms, you keep the suspension geometry correct. Also, for this drastic of a change, you would be better off using camber plates instead of slotting the strut. Again, keeping the geometry correct.
The reason I am interested in the extra .5 is that there are a nice set of 17x9 rims I want. I'll roll/flare my fenders if I have to, my big concern is clearance behind the wheel with that wide of a rim.
lengthening your control arm will only takw clearance away from the fender side, the strut mounting to the hub is what determines rear clearance, and that won't be changing...
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Quiklilcav wrote:You're never going to get a set of 17x9's to fit under the front fender of a J-Body without rubbing, unless you do an extreme wide body or something. 8's are tough to pull off, never mind 9's. The wheel well just doesn't have enough room for that wide of a wheel to turn, regardless of the track width.
Fine just crush all my hopes and dreams .... OK so I can't get the bigger wheels to fit, but If I'm still curious as to if using the nbody CV will take up the extra .5 of an inch. I plan on doing the brake swap so I'd rather not have to move the existing balljoint back half an inch, especially when all I need are camber plates.
Both control arms for comparison.
Close up view of the welded ends of the control arms.
This is the factory units that I'm doing too. I've predrilled the rivets for further drilling to remove the ball joints.
This picture shows both control arms lined up hole for hole. You can see the extra length of the aluminum units.
Just a picture of the complete control arm.
That's the progress so far with the control arms.
Remember I'm doing both sets of control arms and replacing the stock bushings of both with the Prothane bushings.
I know the pictures aren't the best but it's all I've got for a digi camera.
More work on it this weekend and will have more picture updates with it too.
Misnblu
Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!
LIVID wrote:[K so I can't get the bigger wheels to fit, but If I'm still curious as to if using the nbody CV will take up the extra .5 of an inch.
If by CV's you mean Axles..... or half shafts.... yes
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
speedracer, i think he thinks that the inner cv is longer.. its probably the half shaft is longer like you say.
also to all who want to run the n body arms at full width, what are you planning on doing to account for the camber change? a offset spacer which spaces the strut off the knuckle? this is probably not the ideal solution....
farmerz24
^ No the burfield CV head for the N-body is longer than the J's...thats where that .5inches comes from on the axles.
One way you can compensate for the width chage is using chamber plates for your struts, if you have Tein SS struts you can just slide the strut out on the chamber plate. But any chamber plate will do this for any strut.
The outter CV is longer from the N than the J. The inner tripod CV has enough give to compensate for the 1/2. Honestly I don't know why you guys are obesessing over it. When doing the NFW front swap I put the N outter CV on and that shoved the half-shaft 1/2 in at the tripod CV, no problems. Leaving the arms full length is not a good idea, your tires will hit the fenders....
Quiklilcav wrote:So, just out of curiosity, why did you take these pictures in the middle of the road?
Lol, it was in a parking lot and had to take those pictures at my lunch break.
I does look like I'm in the middle of the road though.
Misnblu
Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!
C.T.S wrote:The outter CV is longer from the N than the J. The inner tripod CV has enough give to compensate for the 1/2. Honestly I don't know why you guys are obesessing over it. When doing the NFW front swap I put the N outter CV on and that shoved the half-shaft 1/2 in at the tripod CV, no problems. Leaving the arms full length is not a good idea, your tires will hit the fenders....
For me it's just about bigger tires but thats out of the question, it would have been nice to save the work of drilling out the ball joints but meh. You are right about hitting the fender too. I was looking at my front tires today and the outer edge is flush with the outside edge of the fender, another .5 isn't even an option. I'm actually going to have to go with less offset so I can fit a 235 under there next year.
So another idea that was bouncing around in my head. I know most of you are having the factory holes tig welded shut. What about brazing? It's not as strong as welding due to lack of penatration, but it should serve the purpose of filling the hole nicely. I recently brazed an aluminium coupler for my intake pipe and nothing is ever getting it apart again (with the obvios exception of 700*F).
You'd be amazed at the difference in strength between brazing and tig. That ball joint gets about 40% of the force (per side) of turning the car. The last thing you would want is for that to snap when you're turning hard on the freeway and hit a bump.
farmerz24 wrote:interesting... so one last thing to confirm. is there a difference between the supercharged and non-supercharged CV's? i mean, maybe the splines on the outer CV are the same, but maybe the CV assembly itself is bigger, even if the outer splines are the same.
This would explain why there is only one set of hubs for sc and non sc cars, yet apparetnly the cv themselves are different, minus the spline count and diameter.
can someone please clarify. I CANT believe the G body hub is $380.!!!!!!!!!
Well.... there is the 4t65-E and the 4t65-E HD (supercharged) I thought the different parts between the 2 was the differential. Perhaps end of the axle that goes in the trans? When reading that post, I thought that maybe the diff. on the HD trans has a bigger hole?
It's kinda like comparing the 4T40E to the 4T45E. The axles, case, etc are all the same... but the innards change up a bit (clutches, bands, etc). I think the W and G body axles are all the same... except for 2000 for whatever reason. I've got all the parts numbers at home, I'll post 'em when I get there.. (I'm at work right now)
OK. Way too much speculation on the trannys going on here. Lets set some things straight.
The 4T65e is the exact same as the 4T65e-HD except the HD has the following:
Stronger Differential and Differential Housing
Output Shaft (this is inside the tranny for the uninitiated)
258mm TC opposed to the 245mm
The rest is the same. Gear ratios, input and diff-sun, vary per car it was put in. Applies to 97-03 only. 04+ are a whole new mess.
The axles for a L36 and L67 are the same, except the inner tripod CV. Axles are identical right to left.
Axles are different for 4T45e which came on the LA1 (3400) or LG8 (3100) engines. Left and right are different.
The stock 3800 axles are way strong. ZZ uses basically stock axles on their 11s car. The CVs have proven to be troublesome, but failure there usually doesn't damage anything (besides the cv and axle of course). The output shaft is also a weak point for 400+ hp when launching during drags.
Correction, the axles aren't identical right to left... one is slightly shorter than the other, about half an inch (I have them sitting side by side right here...). Also, one of the inners is male, the other is female... but otherwise, yes...
Damn, totally dropped the ball on that one. They are different, as Lenko said. Don't know what I was thinking.
boy, someone shure knows how to piss speedracer off,
i would like to do this, but....... things like this im not so good at, well see,
and my money is going to somthing else for now.
gooood info guys!
chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
