After having gone through the rear disk conversion now, I've come to a better understanding of how the whole thing fits together and why we can't just bolt on a kit from another car.
<a href="http://www.wildweasel.ca/images/cars/wm3/09292003RearBrakeInstall/IMG_2175.JPG"><img src="http://www.wildweasel.ca/images/cars/wm3/09292003RearBrakeInstall/IMG_2175_t.JPG"></a>
That bracket is the guts and glory of the Baer rear brake conversion. For anyone who says they're just Camaro or Corvette calipers, you're absolutely correct and that revelation is completely meaningless. Nobody makes a custom caliper for our cars. That would be stupid. They just engineer ways to get them onto the rear hub.
If you can make that bracket, you can fashion your own rear disks using off-the-shelf parts. It's that bracket, and the hole pattern in it, that make the whole thing work.
With that said, any question about systems from other cars must come down to how the caliper is attached. If there's a similar bracket (this one replaces the drum back plate) that could be drilled to match the 4 holes you see there and the hub circle then I don't see any reason it couldn't be adapted to fit. The question is whether or not stock setups are this simple. Somehow I doubt they are.
I just figured I'd show how it all works and why we can't just bolt up the stuff from another car. As you can see, it has nothing to do with the bolt pattern on the hub. You can easily buy 5x100 rear rotors. It's all about mounting the caliper.
This is old news for some but I thought it would be informative to others. I know I found it interesting seeing how it call went together.
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You're right however we would need to know what the plate material is. Just making it outta steel from the hardware store might not be a good idea. <br>
Blind Julius
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I made mine from Hot Rolled Steel & have had them on for 10 mos. & haven't had any problems. <br>
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Yeah, that's a good point.
I wasn't getting into making your own. I was addressing adapting a bracket from another car which I would then assume is made of strong enough steel.
You're absolutely right. If trying to make your own bracket it is absolutely critical that it be made of an automotive grade material that can handle the forces being put on it.
If it failed, your hub would then hang loose and probably snap the bolts and you'd lose your rear wheel. <br>
also the precision in drilling would be an issue as well. as eliot pointed out before, a mm could be the difference of good and bad.... <br>
what calipers are on the front? and isn't that one also the same thing, just another bracket that bolts into the stock hub, extending the height of the caliper? <br>
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Yeah, that's right, at least, what I think...
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98 Cavalier RS with a 2000 2.4 swap
No, the front is a bit different. The front uses the stock knuckle with a sort of adapter on it. The adapter really just widens the bolt pattern for the caliper to attach. The caliper itself is much bigger and fits around the larger rotors. The new caliper, like the rear one, has an integrated pad guide.
The stock pad guides are cut off the stock knuckle as is an area to allow the adapter to fit flush.
Take a look at these pics. The adapter is the black bar with the white sticker on it. The two inner bolts are in the holes for the stock caliper. The two outer holes are where the new caliper attaches. Note that it really doesn't attach any further from the center. It's just a lot bigger.
Click on it for the full sized pic.
<a href="http://www.wildweasel.ca/images/cars/wm3/baer/front_brake_back_view_1.jpg"><img src="http://www.wildweasel.ca/images/cars/wm3/baer/front_brake_back_view_1_t.jpg"></a> <a href="http://www.wildweasel.ca/images/cars/wm3/baer/front_brake_back_view_2.jpg"><img src="http://www.wildweasel.ca/images/cars/wm3/baer/front_brake_back_view_2_t.jpg"></a>
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ok ill bite, dumb question alert
why not take teh front hubs (?)( caliper/disk/ al teh mounting hardware) from a u-pull-it cavi and adapte that to the rear. the front might be too small to give you good stopping power i dunno anything about the brake system except how to inspect them i.e. check for wear. just an idea since the parts from teh front would have been made with our cars in mind
although not with the idea ofthem being on the back.
cinny
The only real thing stopping anyone from doing that is again the mounting plate, and by using front calipers, you'd have no provisions for the e-brake cable...
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ok , that make sense thanks
why doesn't some just get the specs from wild weasel mounting bracket and have a machine shop just make some up? <br>
Its not how fast your car goes....its how much nerve the driver has to push it that fast.
Just remember folks, If you can draw it with diemsions on a sheet of paper you can have it laser cut. There are some companies that will do it. If we all get together and decide on using X-X hardware we can design the bracket for it and mass order it!!
Get AutoCAD....and an engineering materials book. All that is left is to pick out the material for the bracket and fastening hardware. <br>
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I have AutoCad and all the books we will need. Just need the bracket to make the blueprint from. <br>
MTX 75x2 pro for sale.
Paul: When you say that the only thing stopping you is the mounting plate, you have to realize that mounting the caliper is the guts of the entire system. That was the point of my whole post here.
Cinny mentioned taking the mounting hardware from the front. There is NO mounting hardware in the front. the calipers bolt directly to the steering knuckle which is shaped in such a way as to accomodate the caliper and actually has the pad guide built into it.
Even if you had that bracket I show above for the rear, you couldn't mount the front calipers on it because there would be nothing to hold the pads in place.
Calipers are a dime a dozen. It's not like there's anything j-body specific about our front calipers. It's not like there's nothing j-body adverse about any off-the-shelf stock rear calipers from any other car. The key is in mounting everything up.
LittleBill and Ryan are exactly right. If you picked a caliper to use (with an integrated pad guide) then all you'd need is that bracket to be made. As Event mentioned though (and Eliot before him) it's going to be important to get the measurements exactly right or you could end up running into problems. Brakes aren't generally something you just want to experiment with.
Even more important is that you use a strong enough steel for the bracket and everything else. If it broke and the caliper came loose and snapped your lines you may find yourself entirely without brakes.
It looks as though RaceTech has been doing their homework and has come up with a rear disc conversion that's quite a bit smaller than the Baer kit and meant to match up nicely with the stock front brakes. This may be the best solution for those of you just looking to get rid of the ugly drums but not interested in spending a couple grand on a full conversion.
Here's the link, and remember that the prices are in Canadian dollars:
http://www.tomscomputers.com/jbodiesforum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11668
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I've been thinking about this some..
Correct me if I'm wrong but depending on both the caliper and rotor used the bracket would have to be different. Different placement of the bolts that hold the caliper on and different size rotors would mean that the caliper would have to sit either closer or further from the center..
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Absolutely. That's why I mention above that you first have to pick a caliper to use. You can copy the bracket so far as the hub bolt pattern goes but really, you could get that from the hub itself anyway. There's really nothing complicated about the whole thing. It's just a matter of measuring everything precisely and then putting it all together.
I wonder how much engineering is involved in deciding where to place the caliper? I've noticed that some cars have the rear caliper placed forward like mine while others have them toward the back of the car.
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someone one here did a swap using camaro brake parts
Friends, listen Wild Weasel, make a rear disc conversion or doing your own big brake upgrade is really not an easy task. It requieres a really good knowledge of our brakes system, knowledge of interchange parts compatibility and to make everything worst, every system is totally different from others and dependent from parts like: calipers, rotors and other suspension parts that our and other cars, have.
Personally, Baer system is great and the braking gains are awesome. Wild Weasel congratulations for you new brakes, looks really awesome. But those kits are not more than well designed systems based on sport car's reliable parts.
As always, if you know what are you doing.... you can achieve that really good things happends.
People I am not an expert, only a simple guy that like to investigate and read and many time researching, so after months studying the "Big Brake Upgrade" and "Rear Disc Conversion" topics, I have collected some good info, dimensions, measures..... ant other stuff.
Finally, I don't recommend to anyone start doing this type of mods, without having the knowledge, info and the parts. Remember, brakes are one of the most, maybe the most important, safety systems of any runing object with wheels (airplanes needs brakes, too), so be really careful.
Regards, <br>
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ELIOT. Now.....boosted.
That's why you do the rears first
If you mess up it doesn't matter as much.
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i was gonna say before eliot beat me to it, but to buy all the components and get them to work right and get the four plates manufactured would probably cost you around the same amount of money, so then spending 1700 on the brake systems already perfected isn't bad. =/ <br>
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Ryan: Note my comment above. If you botch up the rear system and the caliper somehow breaks loose and snaps the line, you'll have NO brakes. Not even an e-brake of any sort.
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Wild Weasel: It was a joke. Lighten up! <br>
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Ryan: Joke or not, I actually had the exact same thought earlier. I was thinking "Hey... most of the brake power is in the front so if you screw this up, it's not THAT bad."
Then it occurred to me that screwing it up could end up opening the line and THAT would be VERY bad.
It's best that it's mentioned up front so nobody thinks they can just start experimenting and not worry too much about failure. <br>
