BRAKE FAQ - Page 2 - Suspension and Brake Forum

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Re: BRAKE FAQ
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 3:34 PM
Quote:

#2 Everything you need to know about brake fluid.

DOT 3 and 4 fluids are classified as Hygroscopic..this means that they absorb water. This is a good thing. DOT 5 fluid is silicon based and does not absorb water. NEVER use DOT 5 fluid in an ABS system. The reason for this is that because is does not absorb water, the moisture that is introduced to the system ends up collecting in corner of the hydraulic system and corroding the hell out of whatever it touches. Hygroscopic fluids will absorb the moisture so that it is in very low concentration everywhere in the hydraulic system and will not cause any considerable corrosion if the system is properly maintained.


i would like to add to this...there is DOT 5.1 brake fluid....it has properties of DOT 3 and DOT 4 and has the higher boiling point of DOT 5, it is also made of the same base coponents of DOT 3 and DOT 4. so it can be mixed like DOT 3 and 4 can be. however if you purchase DOT 5.1 you need to make sure it is DOT 5.1 not DOT 5
also the silicone base in DOT 5 does not agree with rubber, so if you wanna do a DOT 5 upgrade not only do you have to flush the system with denatured alcohol but you have to replace all the rubber components with teflon components

that is all


(damn i'm a geek)

<br>



Re: BRAKE FAQ
Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:04 AM
Don't use DOT 5. <br>

rubbin' is racin'
Re: BRAKE FAQ
Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:51 PM
DAsminicamaro wrote:



also the silicone base in DOT 5 does not agree with rubber, so if you wanna do a DOT 5 upgrade not only do you have to flush the system with denatured alcohol but you have to replace all the rubber components with teflon components

that is all


(damn i'm a geek)


basically says that <br>


Re: BRAKE FAQ
Thursday, September 23, 2004 11:37 PM
Thats not the reason.....DOT 5 is a non-hygroscopic fluid, which means it will not absorb or mix with water like DOT 3 and DOT 4. Seems like a great idea right? WRONG! When brake fluid can absorb water, the moisture is uniformly diluted throughout the system, and if proper maintanence is adhered to, the moisture will never be in sufficient concentration to do any damage. DOT 5 on the other hand will not mix with moisture, so the result is small droplets of water in the system. These droplets usually collect in small orifices or corners, like in ABS units, and cause severe corrosion, rendering the component useless. Never use DOT 5 in ABS brake systems. There are plenty of performance DOT 3 & 4 fluids out there that will get the job done.

I found this as well:

DOT3
DOT3 brake fluid is the "conventional" brake fluid used in most vehicles. One of the most familiar brands is "Prestone."
Advantages:

DOT3 fluid is inexpensive, and available at most gas stations, department stores, and any auto parts store.
Disadvantages:
DOT3 will damage natural rubber brake seals and should not be used in any car suspected of having natural rubber seals (most Triumphs prior to 1968).
DOT3 fluid eats paint!
DOT3 fluid absorbs water very readily. (This is often referred to as being hydroscopic.) As such, once a container of DOT3 has been opened, it should not be stored for periods much longer than a week before use.
Since DOT3 fluid absorbs water, any moisture absorbed by the fluid can encourage corrosion in the brake lines and cylinders.
DOT4
DOT4 brake fluid is the brake fluid suggested for use in late model Triumphs. The most familiar brand is "Castrol GT-LMA"
Advantages:

DOT4 fluid is available at most auto parts stores, and at some (but not all) gas stations or department stores.
DOT4 fluid does not absorb water as readily as DOT3 fluid.
DOT4 fluid has a higher boiling point than DOT3 fluid, making it more suitable for high performance applications where the brake systems are expected to get hot.
Disadvantages:
DOT4 fluid eats paint! Small leaks around the master cylinder will eventually dissolve away the paint on your bodywork in the general vicinity of the leak, and then give rust a chance to attack the body of your car!
DOT4 fluid is generally about 50% more expensive than DOT3 fluid.
Since DOT4 fluid still absorbs some water, any moisture absorbed by the fluid can encourage corrosion in the brake lines and cylinders.
DOT5
DOT5 brake fluid is also known as "silicone" brake fluid.
Advantages:

DOT5 doesn't eat paint.
DOT5 does not absorb water and may be useful where water absorption is a problem.
DOT5 is compatible with all rubber formulations. (See more on this under disadvantages, below.)
Disadvantages:
DOT5 does NOT mix with DOT3 or DOT4. Most reported problems with DOT5 are probably due to some degree of mixing with other fluid types. The best way to convert to DOT5 is to totally rebuild the hydraulic system.
Reports of DOT5 causing premature failure of rubber brake parts were more common with early DOT5 formulations. This is thought to be due to improper addition of swelling agents and has been fixed in recent formulations.
Since DOT5 does not absorb water, any moisture in the hydraulic system will "puddle" in one place. This can cause localized corrosion in the hydraulics.
Careful bleeding is required to get all of the air out of the system. Small bubbles can form in the fluid that will form large bubbles over time. It may be necessary to do a series of bleeds.
DOT5 is slightly compressible (giving a very slightly soft pedal), and has a lower boiling point than DOT4.
DOT5 is about twice as expensive as DOT4 fluid. It is also difficult to find, generally only available at selected auto parts stores.
DOT5.1
DOT5.1 is a relatively new brake fluid that is causing no end of confusion amongst mechanics. The DOT could avoid a lot of confusion by giving this new fluid a different designation. The 5.1 designation could lead one to believe that it's a modification of silicone-based DOT 5 brake fluid. Calling it 4.1 or 6 might have been more appropriate since it's a glycol-based fluid like the DOT 3 and 4 types, not silicone-based like DOT 5 fluid. (In fact, Spectro is marketing a similar new fluid which they are calling Supreme DOT 4, which seems less confusing.)
As far as the basic behavior of 5.1 fluids, they are much like "high performance" DOT4 fluids, rather than traditional DOT5 brake fluids.

Advantages:

DOT5.1 provides superior performance over the other brake fluids discussed here. It has a higher boiling point, either dry or wet, than DOT 3 or 4. In fact, its dry boiling point (about 275 degrees C) is almost as high as racing fluid (about 300 degrees C) and 5.1's wet boiling point (about 175 to 200 degrees C) is naturally much higher than racing's (about 145 C).
DOT5.1 is said to be compatible with all rubber formulations.
Disadvantages:
DOT5.1 fluids (and Spectro's Supreme DOT4) are non-silicone fluids and will absorb water.
DOT5.1 fluids, like DOT3 & DOT4 will eat paint.
DOT 5.1 fluids are difficult to find for sale, typically at very few auto parts stores, mostly limited to "speed shops."
DOT 5.1 will be more expensive than DOT3 or DOT4, and more difficult to find.
<br>

rubbin' is racin'
Re: BRAKE FAQ
Saturday, October 16, 2004 5:36 PM
what is you phone number? <br>

see ya!

Re: BRAKE FAQ
Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:00 PM
cell: 310-947-7014
work: 310-218-1091 ext 133

Call me at work on monday, I'm leaving for Mexico Friday morning for a race this weekend, I'll be back Sunday night and at work on monday. <br>

rubbin' is racin'
Re: BRAKE FAQ
Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:13 PM
cool thanks! <br>

see ya!

Re: BRAKE FAQ
Tuesday, October 26, 2004 8:17 PM
Props on the info. I'm going to change out my rotors and pads soon,So I'm glad I checked out this thread.. Thanks again <br>



Re: BRAKE FAQ
Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:30 PM
Here is a question for everbody. Why does my car shake when I apply my brakes going 55mph and above?? It has been bothering me for a while. My front brakes are fine, I replaced them over this summer.

dan <br>


Re: BRAKE FAQ
Monday, December 13, 2004 9:29 PM
you need to have your rotors turned

<br>


Re: BRAKE FAQ
Tuesday, December 14, 2004 7:07 AM
^^ The back ones or the front ones?

dan <br>



Re: BRAKE FAQ
Wednesday, December 22, 2004 4:26 PM
dubduce18s wrote:

^^ The back ones or the front ones?

dan


unless youve converted the back to a disc brake setup itll be durms out back, its more than likely the front in that case. at which point if theyre just cheap rotors buy new ones, once you turn them i find they dont work quite as good as new ones will.



parting out my built and boosted 97 z24 so4x4.com/cavy.html for pics and a parts list
Re: BRAKE FAQ
Tuesday, December 28, 2004 7:29 AM
^^ cool .. thank you very much

dan <br>


Re: BRAKE FAQ
Thursday, December 30, 2004 6:18 PM
Happy new year to all.

One technical question. (How to adjust the E-Brake Handle?)

I just finish installing the baer rear disc conversion kit from RK and now the e-brake doesn't work. It goes all the way up and don't even move the parking brake cables. I quit working for today but tomorrow I will check the e-brake handle to verify if it got loose. Have any of you do this before? What is the easiest way to reach the handle adjustment mechanism? I will appreciate any help you can give me on this.

Thanks
Re: BRAKE FAQ
Sunday, January 02, 2005 7:39 PM
Similar question to that above...
How would I adjust the parking brake on a standard drum brake setup? I tried adjusting the pads themselves in the rear, and it made some difference, but could still use more. Is there a way to adjust the cable separately, or is there another adjustment? Thanks.
Re: BRAKE FAQ
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 4:41 PM
Well John the way to adjust the ebrake for the drum setup is easy. Jack up the rear of the vehicle and on the backing plate of the drum there should be an oval rubber piece, remove it. take a screwdriver or adjuster tool and turn the adjuster. Turn it a time or two then spin your wheel a bit if it dosn't move it is too tight,if it free spins too easily adjust it just a bit more.You want the shoes to just barely be making contact with the drums. Then repeat on the other side. When you get back in your car pull the e-brake handle now it should only take 3-4 clicks before it is tight. Hope that helps. To David I am not sure as I don't have the rear disc conversion.


Elkahosso <br>


Re: BRAKE FAQ
Thursday, January 13, 2005 5:11 AM
Thanks. Worked great!
Re: BRAKE FAQ
Saturday, January 22, 2005 2:22 PM
i have a question about rear brakes....when i go to buy rear brakes it shows two different sizes 200 x 45mm and 225 x 45mm which one woud i use for a 96 z24



Re: BRAKE FAQ
Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:01 AM
thanks for all the great info Pat
Re: BRAKE FAQ
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:09 PM
...On Caliper Rebuilding or buying rebuilt calipers:

Here are some reasons and answers about calipers:

The cavalier caliper is a very simple unit consisting of few parts:
Cast Iron caliper body, chrome plated steel piston, 2 slide pins, 2 rubber slide pin bushings, 1 square-cut seal, and one dust boot.

Calipers very rarely leak....so why does every auto parts store in the US and Canada usually have at least 2 rebuilt J-body calipers in stock? The square cut seal (the one that seals against the piston) can wear over time without leaking. This can cause the caliper to drag slightly. The groove in which the seal resides is slightly larger than the seal itself, allowing the seal to move a bit every time the brakes are applied. In a perfect world, the seal will be lightly "stuck" to the caliper piston. Every time the brakes are applied, the piston does not move inside the seal, but the seal actually flexes a little bit and moves with the piston. When you remove your foot from the pedal, the seal relaxes and pulls the piston back to its original position so that there is no pressure against the pads. We are only talking about maybe .010 of an inch, give or take. When the seal wears, the piston will move indepently of the seal and the seal will no longer be able to pull the piston back to its "idle" position, but instead, leave it resting against the pad. Dust boots tear over time, because they are exposed to the most amount of heat, as well as the elements. When boots tear, debris can enter the bore and accelerate the wear of the piston and seal.
On to slide pins....nothing goes wrong with the pins themselves, and little can go wrong with the rubber bushing. The most common cause of sticking sliders on J-body calipers is the corrosion or rust buildup on the inside of the hole in the casting where the slide pin goes. There is a rubber bushing here which has grooves inside to retain lubricant so that the pins are never dry. When cast iron rusts, it expands. When rust develops on the inside of a hole, the hole gets smaller. When a hole gets smaller, it squeezes the crap out of what ever is inside it. Now that I've got everyone all horny....nevermind. This is the common cause of slide pins sticking....even when you lube it up good, you still can't move it in and out with ease....(I'm having too much fun with this).
During the rebuilding process that professionally rebuilt calipers go through, the caliper is disassembled and then sandblasted or bead blasted to remove all the rust and crap from the casting. Generally a wire brush on a drill is put through all the slider pin bushing holes to ensure that there is no corrosion that will constrict the rubber bushing. The bushings are then lubed and installed, as well as a new square-cut seal and generally a new piston or a used one that has been cleaned and inspected, and then the boot.
So, If you decide to rebuild your calipers, these are some things to think about. The caliper is a little more complicated than it seems, and all these areas require attention if you want it to work right.


rubbin' is racin'
Re: BRAKE FAQ
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:21 PM
96Z24Colorado wrote:

i have a question about rear brakes....when i go to buy rear brakes it shows two different sizes 200 x 45mm and 225 x 45mm which one woud i use for a 96 z24


correct me if im wrong but one is for the primary pad and the other is for the secondary pad




Re: BRAKE FAQ
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 11:44 PM
As far as the different size rear shoes, the later models, (about 99 to 03 I think) came with either or. You can't have 2 different size shoes for a leading and trailing, the only difference on a leading or trailing shoe is the the location and/or thickness of the friction lining on the steel shoe backing. th 200mm or 225mm refers to the inside diameter of a new drum and obviously the arc of the shoe. To see which size rear drums you have, look through the wheel or remove the wheel and find the MAX DIAMETER spec thats cast or stamped into the drum. It will either be 201....mm or 227....mm


rubbin' is racin'
Re: BRAKE FAQ
Tuesday, October 18, 2005 8:45 AM
hey sdend me email on successful , cheap and easy do it yourself rear disc brake conversions. ive heard of the neon but requires fabbing which i cant do and ive heard of somthing of the corvette brakes? and all anyone says is i need a damn adapter plate for it. can anyone find me one?
Re: BRAKE FAQ
Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:55 PM
There is a group purchase going on for the stuff need for the rear brake conversion if you haven't found it yet. being it is well pass Oct 18. now for my question. If i was to do a rear disc brake conversion. I know ppl say to upgrade the front as well. Would upgrade pads, rotors and maybe calipers work? or would it be wise to go with a front brake conversion as well?



Re: BRAKE FAQ
Monday, November 21, 2005 10:32 AM
Anyone have any Ideals? Thanks in Advance



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