IRS How to - Page 7 - Suspension and Brake Forum

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Re: IRS How to
Tuesday, December 27, 2005 2:22 PM
Nope... no alignment until I start driving it again... which given the rain and the holes in my roof won't be for a while... maybe March.

It's parked in the garage for the winter... I'm driving my little Geo Metro beater right now.

I need a replacement arm before I align it. The driver's side front bar is bent from the accident (the donor car was totalled)






Re: IRS How to
Wednesday, December 28, 2005 5:49 AM
Yeah watch those control arms when you get your setup. Seems towing companies find them convenient to latch onto when pulling N-bodies. It bends the link when they do. Not like the fricking crossmember is 2" further away or something (CM wouldn't bend).

I'm in the middle of mine right now. The Koni's for the SHO work, but they're long, so the spring doesn't hold tight when the car is up in the air. We'll see if that becomes an issue.

Also the stock exhaust will not work. I think I might be able to chop out a 1' section and replace just that, make it work. But the stock exhaust pipe runs right where the crossmember bolts up to the frame.

Also I have a 97 Sunny Convertible and mine has a different gas filler pipe. Mine has two pipes, and the one is much larger than Lenko's or McMoney's. I'll post pictures later. I think I can bend the larger one up into it's bracket and make it work (the smaller really isn't in the way). Otherwise I might have to use some kind of spacer.

If I hold the crossmember up in place, the way it is right now, I can get it to 1/2" from the frame (without forcing anything). The pipes have 1/4" of space between them and the bracket, bend that up and I've only got another 1/4" to come up with.

I'll keep you guys posted as I go along.



Re: IRS How to
Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:02 AM
sweet deal. thanks man.


Desert Tuners

“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”


Re: IRS How to
Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:45 PM
Damn I really want to do this I'm just debating on it. I play around with my car but I'm not nuts in racing more show if anything. I'm just not sure if it's worth while for me. Especially with the rims being a different bolt pattern.



Re: IRS How to
Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:18 PM
The gas line bent up out of the way like I thought it would. But the sway bar hits the secondary smaller line. I can't find the cord for my camera right now, or I'd show a picture.

Lenko's is a 2000, so I'm thinking about taking a trip to the yard and trying to find the gas filler for a 2000 and swap it out. I'll see how badly it rubs when the suspension isn't at full extension, which is where it rubs the most.

Also the exhause pipe will definately have to be re-routed. There's no way to make the stock pipe work.

Almost everything is on my car now. I need to get the brake lines, and the e-brake intermediate cable. Put those on and it should be good to go....

My alignment looks damn close without as it sits now. Once I have the brake lines installed I'll take it in to get aligned.

The whole project is turning out to be slighly more work than I though, but nothing I can't handle. No snow for days now, and plenty of rain to wash the roads off, should be able to test it all out by this weekend if I'm lucky.



Re: IRS How to
Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:14 AM
What year Buick Park Avenue, Front or Rear, Left or Right????
I got the lines for a 2000 Rear and they are way too short. I'm trying to figure out what you guys used.



Re: IRS How to
Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:52 AM
I got the rear lines (the 12" or so you just got as well). I bent the hard lines on the body to make it work, but it's not bolted to anything right now.

I'm looking for longer (16" or so) braided steel lines... that would be better IMHO.





Re: IRS How to
Thursday, December 29, 2005 9:57 AM
C.T.S wrote:What year Buick Park Avenue, Front or Rear, Left or Right????
I got the lines for a 2000 Rear and they are way too short. I'm trying to figure out what you guys used.


is 1990 but im not sure and is the front line they have a metal braket in the middle that you remove



Location: Montreal, Quebec
Re: IRS How to
Thursday, December 29, 2005 1:40 PM
I ended up getting the front lines (both left and right) for an 01-05. Then removed the bracket in the middle. Works good, just the right length.



Re: IRS How to
Thursday, December 29, 2005 2:15 PM
Well I think I'm might just get this donor car anyways just in case I decide to do it, you cant beat free.



Re: IRS How to
Thursday, December 29, 2005 2:21 PM
Getting back to the how to nature of the thread (can't believe I read thru all that BS! Can we get some tech mods PLEASE for hte love of god.. ugh. That's the only reason i don't post on this site more.)

Anyways. Lenko: by not cutting anything, have you measured yet what your final increase in track width was? Do you have any idea how much camber adjustment you have left in the rear strut mounting tabs once it's set to zero? Can you pull negative two degrees out?

Also. With this setup and design and it being coil over strut based, do you know if you can use a camber/caster plate at the top of the strut for quick camber/caster adjustment (think front camber plates). I can't see why not, but would be curious.

Lastly.. "my style" j-body has the remote mount dampers. But GM often sticks with similar measurements for things. Do any of you know how close these instructions could be followed for use with a 1st/2nd gen J? our axles differ, a lot, but, what might not is mounting points etc...




Re: IRS How to
Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:09 PM
Track is widened 2.7" nominally. I put wider tires on, so even more in my case.

Camber: Plate, you'd have to totally custom fabricate it, but yeah it could be done. I very much doubt you could adapt anything existing. Where mine sits right now it has several degrees negative camber. Like the 4* to 6* range just eye-balling it; too much. We'll see after I get it aligned.

As for the 1st and 2nd gens, I don't know at all. You'd have to start measuring it up. Let us know if you do.



Re: IRS How to
Friday, December 30, 2005 10:57 AM
C.T.S wrote:Track is widened 2.7" nominally. I put wider tires on, so even more in my case.

Camber: Plate, you'd have to totally custom fabricate it, but yeah it could be done. I very much doubt you could adapt anything existing. Where mine sits right now it has several degrees negative camber. Like the 4* to 6* range just eye-balling it; too much. We'll see after I get it aligned.

As for the 1st and 2nd gens, I don't know at all. You'd have to start measuring it up. Let us know if you do.


Damn 2.7" is quite an increase. That's going to increase understeer a bit. you guys arent having fender rub issues? What size tires are ya'll running?

As for 1st/2nd gens, I know someone who is n the middle of a beretta axle swap among other things. I'll ask him to measure this up.



Re: IRS How to
Friday, December 30, 2005 3:37 PM
3rd gen axles are within 1/2" of ours between the mounting points IIRC. The biggest problem with using a coil on strut setup is the clearance between the inner fender and tire. When I was crawling around under the Neon I stripped, I contemplated its IRS. The dimensions are pretty similar (track width, travel, etc) to a 2nd gen, but you would need to modify the inner fender to work with the Neon struts. I really don't like the idea of a coil-over setup inthe rear of 1st/2nd gens. The fender just isn't designed to support the weight of the car. It would have to be braced if you wanted to.




Re: IRS How to
Thursday, January 12, 2006 10:17 PM
CTS... I was wondering how your IRS Project was coming along. Any updates/How-to's?

I would like to see this completed on more vehicle before I take the plunge.


Need to find me a Quote...

Re: IRS How to
Friday, January 13, 2006 7:15 AM
It's not done yet..... The only things left to do are build a new muffler pipe (with new muffler) and get it aligned. I got the new e-brake cable in, fits like a champ. I did drive it around my neighborhood though. With the exhaust disconnected just after the CC it sounds like a nascar.

I've been extremely busy with school and work lately though. So its been coming along slowly.


Looking good?



Re: IRS How to
Friday, January 13, 2006 8:32 AM
Im going to start saving for this now. I have got to thank you and Lenko for doing all this work to show us how easy it really is.



In Loving Memory of Phil Martin December 14 2005
Re: IRS How to
Friday, January 13, 2006 9:12 AM
Here's the start of the HOW-TO I'll post. It's not done yet! And missing quite a bit from what is there (like torque specs, parts list, some sizes are wrong, etc).

How To - Draft



Re: IRS How to
Friday, January 13, 2006 10:40 AM
Looks Good... Thanks for the update.

I have been mostly concerned about the bolts for the Frame to Cross-Member. How are you tightening them down? Is there room to get a wrench in there to tighten?

I know that Lenko had mentioned drilling holes in the cross-member to give some adjust-ability, but I was wondering if you had figured out what you will do for camber adjustment? I was thinking about building some custom trailing arms with Heim Joints. I have a feeling that the ride would suffer from it though. (Maybe Heim Joint on one end, Bushing on the other???)

Thanks again for the update.

Rob



Need to find me a Quote...

Re: IRS How to
Friday, January 13, 2006 12:13 PM
CM Bolts: Impact wrench. No way to get a wrench to hold the bolt end.

Toe: The Link Arms are adjustable as-is, but quite little.
Camber: That's controlled by the strut-to-knuckle bolts. The camber is naturally of because the N-Body strut towers are slightly farther apart than J-body. I'm thinking camber bolts at the moment. We'll see what happens. Lenko was slotting his struts last I knew.
Caster: Fixed at slightly positive.



Re: IRS How to
Saturday, January 28, 2006 9:45 PM
Woo Hoo! Got it fully aligned today. But it's raining.
Even in the rain it feels like someone superglued me to the road. It's the best handling car I've driven in a long time.
The FE3 rear bar off the N-Body with the FE2 stock front bar makes just a perfect neutral setup. With all four corners set on the lowest setting it controlls the springs beautifully, not too harsh, crisp handling.
I'll finish my How To tomorrow sometime for anybody waiting on it.




Re: IRS How to
Saturday, January 28, 2006 9:59 PM
Thats great to hear man cant wait to see the how to write up



In Loving Memory of Phil Martin December 14 2005
Re: IRS How to
Sunday, January 29, 2006 6:41 PM
C.T.S wrote:Marchi1: If your seriously thinking about doing this, you need to read this whole forum. Most of the questions you ask are answered in previous pages.

1. Yep, the crossmember doesn't get that much force, and it's almost all shearing force, which the frame is very strong against.

2. Track is an inch or two wider in Lenko's cause he didn't cut the links.

3. N-Body bolt pattern is 5x115, so yeah, unless you do a n-body front swap you'll have the stock 5x100 on the front.

4. "the J-body ones are too small a hole.. way too small" - Lenko

5. Not even remotely close at all. We have a single bolt (like a shock). N-Body is more of a traditional front wheel strut that attached to the spindle with two large bolts.


So lets say I cut the plates off the grand am strut and weld them onto the tube of the j-body strut...would that possibly work. Reason I'm asking is I have the gravana coilovers
Re: IRS How to
Sunday, January 29, 2006 7:22 PM
The Gravana rears will not work. It has to hold the spindle verticle, like the strut holds the front spindle. The only thing I can even think of, and I doubt it would work, is to use the gravana strut like a koni strut, cutting the stock strut open and somehow bolting the gravana strut into the stock strut.



Re: IRS How to
Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:06 PM
the gravana's are a complete threaded tube..the whole bottom part is just threaded on...meaning i can take the front piece that bolts up to the knuckle and thread it onthe the rear coilover.
I do understand what your saying, which is why i asked if i take the n-body rear strut..cut the plates on the strut that bolt to the knuckle..and weld them to the gravana outter tube..would that sound like it would fit
I know it's just a complete guess, but you've had more hands on than i have with the irs setup
i know it would prob be easier for me(if i decided to install the irs) to just buy the front piece(part that bolts to knuckle) for the gravana's..but i don't think Jim would start selling just that piece out
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