Neon disc swap how to - Page 11 - Suspension and Brake Forum

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Re: Neon disc swap how to
Wednesday, March 08, 2006 10:21 AM
what kind of material should I make the whole new neon bracket with? aluminum or steel?


Opening Soon Kustom J's


Re: Neon disc swap how to
Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:13 PM
If you don't plan on having an e-brake, all you need is a simple plate, which doesn't require ACAD to design. But you will need to find a caliper that will be in the correct position for the rotor. You can't use the Neon caliper if you want an e-brake, since it has nothing to do with the e-brake system (you could, but you would need to add a spot caliper somewhere else, which would require another bracket). Do you plan on copying the design of the Neon bracket and backing plate? By the time you got done drawing it all, and then having it machined, it would end up costing hundreds more than even a Wilwood or Bear kit.




Re: Neon disc swap how to
Wednesday, March 08, 2006 7:53 PM
anybody know what the size of the axle nut is on the neons?? so people can have the right size when they go to the junk yard




Re: Neon disc swap how to
Wednesday, March 08, 2006 7:58 PM
its a 30mm... i helped pull some this past weekend




-- MyZcar

Re: Neon disc swap how to
Wednesday, March 08, 2006 8:11 PM
well looking at the neon bracket, there's some mighty thin material between the center hole and the outer holes. how safe is it?



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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Wednesday, March 08, 2006 10:55 PM
There is a fortor of safety of 4.93 on the brackets I've machined. This isn't consistent but will be close. I bought a set of machined brackets a while back on ebay, when they arrived I was scraed so much I decided to machine my own brackets. I ran an FEA on there brackets and saw a fastor of safety of 1.75, which could easily be achievd by braking hard and hitting a pot-hole at the same time. **SNAP**
The webbing is plenty to hold up when its machined out properly.
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:03 AM
Joshua, check your PM's please


Desert Tuners

“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”


Re: Neon disc swap how to
Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:36 PM
what other cars use the same backing plate?

sofar i know 95-97 are the same caliper
98-99 are somewhat different, from what the wrecker told me

calipers from 96-2000 cirrus, and sebring convertable are the same out back

do intrepids with rear disc's have the same rear backing plate?

i've got my calipers, brackets, most of the ebrake hardware, missing a star wheel, and come caliper bolts.


1998 Chevrolet Cavalier
5-spd


Re: Neon disc swap how to
Friday, March 10, 2006 3:11 PM
All the Dodge part crossing info is somewhere in here. I got it all straight from the dealer. The Neon is the only car that uses this specific bracket/backing plate.




Re: Neon disc swap how to
Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:57 AM
89+ dodge/chrysler rear calipers are all the same part number at a local part store... might make it easier to find cores


1998 Chevrolet Cavalier
5-spd


Re: Neon disc swap how to
Tuesday, March 14, 2006 9:20 PM
seems like our cars dont need any sort of RPV for our system. Not only does the GAGT or the Alero's with rear disc's not have them anywhere in the system, but because the Master Cylinder is above where the calipers sit, there should be no issue with the fluid draining out of the lines.

Makes it a bit easier to do this swap, got most of my parts already, just need Daytona rubber hoses


1998 Chevrolet Cavalier
5-spd



Re: Neon disc swap how to
Tuesday, March 14, 2006 11:16 PM
Well.....the rear can actually very easily be above the MC, if you parked your car on a somewhat steep hill then your rear calipers will be higher than your MC. The front will never be higher or at least should never be higher....if you did get your front calipers over your MC, leaking brake fluid will be the last thing on your mind cause you will need a new car. Thats why our cars dont have any RPVs on the front lines. However from what I've read, theres a way around this if the manufacturer uses an air tight cap on the MC reservoir, which most are. I haven't looked recently but I don't remember there being a very tight rubber seal on our caps which would mean that there is a minimal seal thus allowing for air to leak past and fill the reservoir with air as the fluid gets sent down through your lines as your brake pads wear down. If this is the case then the reverse is true, when the pressure is in the reverse order our MC's will be likely to leak when the rear calipers are above the MC and without the RPVs inline. Not only that but with the stock 10psi RPVs and discs you'll have brake drag, and without RPVs you'll have less pedal performance than if you did have the 2psi valves, ie: more initial pedal travel till engagement. Again, I could be wrong about the whole leaking MC but thats the only reason I can figure why they would come equiped with rear RPVs stock. -Of course this could be for the exact same reason as stated above, less initial pedal travel. I'd have to do testing to be sure, like take the stock RPVs out while still running drums and see what the pedal feels like but theres no way I'm going back just to test that.....screw that.
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Wednesday, March 15, 2006 9:58 AM
good point, but what about the other N-body's with rear disc's? My friend was under both a GAGT and Alero with rear discs, followed both lines, and there was no RPV's inline?


1998 Chevrolet Cavalier
5-spd


Re: Neon disc swap how to
Wednesday, March 15, 2006 12:03 PM
I know my truck has a rubber MC seal on it which my car doesn't. I wonder if the alero and GAGT have a rubber sealed MC cap. That would keep the brake fluid from leaking out.
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Friday, April 07, 2006 9:58 PM
James Cahill wrote:

There are vented rotors that will work. They are from a Daytona, but you will need to use the Daytona caliper bracket (the caliper is the same though, as well as some of the other hardware). There are two different Daytona setups- 10" non vented, and 11" vented. Its been done on several cars now.


Pics and a thread on my Daytona rear setup and Dan and I's crazy suspension builds soon i promise...

For um, teasers till I make some threads... check out http://www.protonus.ws/gallery/v/thecar/

my car's gallery.. have a album for suspension and brakes.... work is in progress RIGHT NOW, ..

James Cahill wrote:

I guess they're just minuses to me, but the Neon stuff looks better, and having the caliper hang off the bottom rear of the rotor is kind of strange. Not really any lack of function, more of an appearance thing. From what I hear, finding the 11" caliper brackets is kind of tough. Most of the cars had 10" non vented setups.

If the Neon bracket had the interior dimensions of the Daytona piece, it would be great. I guess you could also use a Daytona or Neon e-brake cable and use the brackets on the correct sides to have the calipers on the front top, but IIRC, there was a clearance issue between the caliper and axle. That may not be a problem on the 3rd gen axle though.


As Dan noted on my car when the beretta axle gets narrowed gonna try flipping the wheel bearing mounting plate up side down and switch the brake back plates left to right to put the caliper back "up top" . This should fix your "appearence" problems with teh setup and allow me to use stock 1st gen ebrake cables I'm hopin.

Yes, finding the 11.2" vented is hella hard. I have a list of cars and such at work that come with the 11.2" vented brakes

And the Daytona setup definetly looks better then the neon one... it's more then an inch larger and the rotors are 3/4" thick at least due to venting, but I also have nice SRP Drill/slotted rotors that have radii machined rill holes etc.. . they match my wilwoods nice... look at the gallery for now



Re: Neon disc swap how to
Monday, April 17, 2006 4:16 PM
i <3 this thread



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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Friday, April 21, 2006 9:32 AM
has anyone done a sticky on this topic yet? i have tried to search and there is a lotta stuff. thanks


2004 Cavalier, 2.2 ecotec, 5spd getrag
do you ever notice that the ones who talk the loudest have the least to talk about?
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Friday, April 21, 2006 4:14 PM
What exactly are you looking for? This is the How-To and includes everything you need to know.




Re: Neon disc swap how to
Saturday, April 22, 2006 1:06 AM
Just my rant:::

Sticky or not its got all the info you need plus more. If another How-to on this topic was stickied what would happen to all the info here? repost? i dont think so. this thread would still be needed and therefore shouldn't be "replaced" by another.
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Monday, April 24, 2006 7:31 AM
I think once people see the Daytona IROC R/T aka 11.2" vented swap I have once it's mounted and done.. they're gonna want a new thread anyways. I owe it all to James for finding the dodge stuff "bolts up" and Dan for taking that further and finding the 11.2" vented setup, but, with the SP rotors l have like this that I painted up,, andDan figuring out that we could swap endplates on the axle to bring my calipers up "higher" then his and put the bleed bolts at the right spot.. it's gonna be a threadjack... people wanting to do this on 3rd gen's etc I'm sure. It's why I'm taking so many pictuers and not posting much till I'm done cause I'm sure there will be a lot of questions (especially since both Dan and I are using the beretta beam, who knows what it might take on a 3rd gen) Here's my rotors for the rear btw. These are SP Performance Drilled/slotted rotors, they are very nice, the drill's never hit a fin cause they are CNC and the drilling is radius'd not rouch or countersunk.. just like my wilwood SRF fronts. That's why I got these, cause they match the wilwoods nicely. They also make a version of these rotors that are SLOTTED ONLY... I have all the part numbers and when I make a thread on this, I'll post it all.









Re: Neon disc swap how to
Monday, April 24, 2006 2:44 PM
there is a lotta info and also a lotta b.s. to dig through in this thread. the post james made was great but a lotta other points have been brought up since.


2004 Cavalier, 2.2 ecotec, 5spd getrag
do you ever notice that the ones who talk the loudest have the least to talk about?

Re: Neon disc swap how to
Monday, April 24, 2006 3:07 PM
the discs I'll be using for my neon conversion are 10.6", only .6 inch of a difference. unfortunately, they aren't vented.


Desert Tuners

“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”


Re: Neon disc swap how to
Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:16 AM
I think the daytona swaps cool and all, but I think part availability will be a big issue.
Do the rears really need to be vented? - no
Fronts do way more than the front, if you brake hard enough to require vented rear then you already have purchased the big brake front kit, and if your gonna drop that kinda money for the front, then why would you do a DIY conversion on the back. Just buy a F+R kit since you can afford it anyway. The neon swap is for those people who hate drum and hate expensive brake kits. I really don't think the daytona offers any advantage over the neon, when you really think about it, but thats just me.
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:33 PM
The other thing that bothers me besides the much less availability of the parts in yards even compared to neon stuff is the caliper not being any larger. With the same sized caliper without changing the MC or anything you can't put any additional pressure on the rotor. So the bigger rotor and vented just means it will be cooler, so if heat isn't an issue on the neon stuff then why would you need the hassle of trying to find the parts for the daytona swap. Don't get me wrong it looks sweet.....perhaps I'm a little jealous...ha ha. But it still follows to basic logic that for the added hassle it's just not worth it.
Re: Neon disc swap how to
Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:01 PM
just an FYI 90's Daytona rubber rear lines thread into the stock jbody line, and work with the caliper

i'm just worried about the RPV's.... were thinking of cutting them out, and just putting in a piece of pipe and be done with it


1998 Chevrolet Cavalier
5-spd


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