some progress info on the V6 swap - Page 5 - Third Generation Forum

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Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:21 PM
joe malechowski wrote:

I just found out that the cav tranny is a 3.42 ratio and the gam gt is 3.29. Since the computer controls the shift points, do you guys think that it will be too much of a difference that the tranny shifts at the wrong rpm's. This could be at an advantage for fuel consumption though.

Does any one know how to rework the factory tach for the 6 cyl?

I don't know if the gear ratio change will affect the computer, but I'm guessing it could, since the RPM's will not correspond to the same MPH as it's supposed to. However, should it work, you will have more pick up than the Grand Am it came from because of the higher gear ratio. I'm sure it can be reprogrammed easy enough by someplace like DHP.

Your thought about it using less fuel because of it is off base. The lower gear ratio is better for fuel economy. The first number is how many times the engine needs to turn in 3rd gear (straight drive) to turn the axel 1 time. So in other words, on the GAGT, the engine only has to turn 3.29 time per axel rotaion, whereas the Cav engine needs to turn 3.42 times. They put the higher gear ratio into the 4 bangers to give more torque at the wheels from a smaller engine.

As far as the tach, you can get a Dakota Digital tach adapter. This should take care of it.






Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:56 PM
Where do I go to to get the tach adapter? Dakota digital web site?


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, May 20, 2006 9:11 PM
I think that it SHOULD be ok. The PCM will judge the proper shift points by using TPS vs. SPEED vs. MPH. So it should be able to figure itself out just fine. They might be a little weird on the V6 since there's a slight difference in FDR. But it's not a real huge gap that's being filled.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Sunday, May 21, 2006 5:39 PM
joe malechowski wrote:

Where do I go to to get the tach adapter? Dakota digital web site?

You can order it there, or try Jason at A-Plus. He's a DD dealer, and great to work with.




Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:44 AM
One more thing for now. Im still doing the research on my swap before I start cutting wiring. When I do the swap, can I splice into the busss lines with the 3.4 computer to the rest of the car. Will it work?


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:05 PM
Update from me:

No response from Milzy Motorsports. Sooooo, I went ahead and shot an email out to DHP. Lets see what they say.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:49 PM
Ok keep me posted if you find out anything about the buss lines.


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:41 PM
If I can get a place to do the custom programming, I'll have complete info for you once it's wired up.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:40 AM
Do you know if a GM dealer can do custom programming?


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:03 AM
A GM dealer can only reflash to a factory program. So no, not really.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:44 AM
joe malechowski wrote:

One more thing for now. Im still doing the research on my swap before I start cutting wiring. When I do the swap, can I splice into the busss lines with the 3.4 computer to the rest of the car. Will it work?

Well, I did on mine. I'm using a different computer, and I believe my setup is going to work. We'll see when I get the rest of the stuff done and try firing it up. I have more variables than some, but in other ways, I think my swap is simpler. It's all theory until it runs.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:28 PM
gm dealer can reflash it and you can ask the dealer to delete the options u dont want like auto tranny delete or something like that


Opening Soon Kustom J's

Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:55 PM
Yes in theory the buss lines getting connected should work. There is alot of thinking and trying doing off the wall engine combo's. I've been there. I have an 87 s-10 with a 406 small block, edelbrock fuel injection, 5-spd, and tons of body mods, that I built a few years back. What a screamer ! its collecting dust in my garage, thinking about selling.

any way if any one finds out if the buss lines connected will work, post it on here.
Thanks.


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:00 PM
Kustom 96 Sunfire GT wrote:

gm dealer can reflash it and you can ask the dealer to delete the options u dont want like auto tranny delete or something like that


INCORRECT

Dont be giving out wrong info, or info that you do not know. If the dealer could do this, why were you so up about doing a PowrTuner? The dealership CANNOT change very little. One example of what they can do is change the country select to Mexico with their Tech tool. What does that do for you? Turns off the DRL's.

Here's what happens. The dealership needs to flash a PCM for your car. They send your VIN to GM. GM's computers look up what that car needs, and sends the appropriate program to the dealership. The dealership flashes your car with that program. They cannot change options. They cannot take out auto tranny controls, just as much as they cannot change the OS to run a 2 bar MAP sensor. The only thing they MAY be able to do is get you a program for a 5spd car. But since none of the FWD V6 cars have a 5spd, they dont be doing any of that.

That topic had been discussed/talked over many times. From WAAAAAAYYYYYYY back in the day. Nothing has changed, ever.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:43 PM
well that was what i been told from the dealer and Charles From DHP


Opening Soon Kustom J's

Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:40 PM
Well, lets be honest. You've posted quite a few things that you've found out/been told. But you know what the fact is.... you still have absolutely 0 progress on this swap, and continue to day after day ask question after question when you dont like the answer that was given to your last one. I see that you've talked to the dealer, DHP, HP Tuners, and about everyone else on this swap. When my car enters the shop to have work done (last time was the exhaust) They open the hood and you hear the tech say... exact words. "WHAT THE @!#$!?"

Think about it, honestly. If the dealer COULD do custom programming. Then there would be no need for us to have DHP, and there would be no need for HPTuners to have to crack the PCM code in order for them to make their software, as the solution would always be a dealership away.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:09 PM
I didnt mean to start an arguement between you guys. For me this is my research department, if some one wants to say that a dealer can do it thats fine, if someone wants to say that a dealer cant do it thats fine too. The truth be told when I go to a dealer and ask. So arguements put aside, I realize there are differnce of opinions in most cases. Gee I have been on here only a week or two and I've seen advice written that is so stupid that I refuse to comment on.
In this day of computer controlled engines there is so much that is experiment only results to a question, especially for this type of swap. What Im looking for Is real advice from experimenters that have actually done the swap, encountered problems and have solved them. Namely meshing the engine computer with the body computer. So if you havent done the swap dont be giving us guesses, or my buddy's buddy said that......


This is supposed to be the facts on here, thats why this forum exhists right?
Maybe Im in the wrong place.


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Friday, May 26, 2006 2:44 PM
Anyone can use the search function and find out about people that's gone to the dealer wanting custom programming. It cant be done. Only exception is the GM S/C programs.

That was my point too, someone that hasnt done the swap, or even attempted it.... actually has done nothing more than ask a whole bunch of useless questions on other message boards, is now coming here and giving you advice on how to do it. Kinda pisses me off.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, May 27, 2006 4:20 AM
I emailed GM 's research and development department. You can guess what they told me. They cant help me because of safety purposes. They dont want to tell me anything at all, I guess they think Im going to get killed in it or something. This is frustrating.......

I have the 3.4 on the engine stand, the car sitting beside it. Every time I see them together I just want to rip that 4 banger out and half ass the 3.4 in. I stop my self because I want a real nice job, I want It done right, If i cant connect the rest of the car into the same diagnostic connectror as the engine im not doing it.
The car only has 56,000 miles on it, once I start cutting wires there is no way back, but to replace the wiring.

I thought of the possibility of wiring the engine with power, grounds etc.on the engine stand, then rolling it over to the car. Connect the data lines and grounds at the diag connector and Unplug the cavs pcm. i have a Snap-On scanner at work, i was going to input the vin from the grand am and see what I get.
Does that sound like a plan?

Funny story.
Years ago my dadand his buddy (my best friends dad) got this Idea. Hey since we got this v-8 out on the floor lets see what happens if we start it.
They started it and it began bouncing off the concrete, they ran from it, sat back and watched as it bounced before running out of gas.

I thought about starting the 3.4 on the engine stand but I thought of this story and didnt.





01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:35 AM
I would get wiring diagrams, for the Cav, and the Grand am. Take the wiring from the GA and cut maybe 6" back off of the PCM connector, then splice in. Match the wires to where they need to be. You'll have to add a few wires for the 24x crank sensor, and having 6 injectors instead of 4. And the 2nd cooling fan could be added.






Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, May 27, 2006 3:34 PM
I have the entire grand am harness, firewall forward. Rad, fans, a/c lines, condensorand the Fuse relay center .
Also got the wiring diagrams for both cars. Im just waiting to get a computer tuesday.

I checked and labled the wires going into the gam's firewall, mainly ignition wires, fuel pump, emissions stuff on the tank, data line connector. I have a diagnostic plug wired to the engine harness now, Just waiting for the computer.

Im going to plug my scanner into the engine harness, check out everythinig, If everything looks good Im going for the buss line jump.


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e


Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, May 27, 2006 7:06 PM
Joe..... do you have a diagram that shows the wiring for the firewall block on the Cav? If so, I am VERY interested in that, as I also have a complete (- some pigtails that I had to use on the current setup, but that's an easy fix) Grand Am wire harness. If it's possible for you to send them to me, that would be awesome.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, May 27, 2006 7:49 PM
The fire wall block meaning the big plug mounted on the frame rail?
or the fuse blocks either under the hood or in the dash. there isnt an exact diagram of th plug on the frame rail. I would have to look at several diagrams to find out what wire you need info on. If you give me the color and pin # in the plug Ill see what I can find.


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, May 27, 2006 8:15 PM
Actually, I was wondering what all of them went to. It's probably easier to figure out the GA harness that way. From the looks of it they're labled on the block. One way has letters (like A through K) and the other had numbers (1 thruogh 8 maybe)

This may be a good thing to figure out at some point either way. I really have nothing else to go on since my factory J-body harness is pretty much gone. Not much left of it.

BTW, after a little 'drive' tonight. I would reccmoend to anyone once they get their 3400 swap completed. Find some willing candidate that has a 5.0 Mustang. The look of astonishment on their face is priceless.





Re: some progress info on the V6 swap
Saturday, May 27, 2006 8:31 PM
I looked through all of the cav diag and cant find the plug anywhere Its like it doesnt exhist. Weird. The only way seems to be to look at them and distinguish which is the front half of the plug and what goes to the back half.
I havent figured that out for myself yet.

The gam harness is alot easier because they come from the fuse block and they are letter numbers on the back. Those are in the diagrams.

The only thing I can do is email you the cav's. What year was that again?
Oh I almost forgot they are also available at the library, or so I was told.
The ones That I have are from a Mitchell ssoftware program from work.
let me know what you want to do. 16 pages of the cav. there are more but they are stuff that I dont need.


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

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