I made a post over on v6z24.com after some searching. We'll see if anyone can turn up pics of the engine mounts for me.
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Quiklilcav wrote:
OK, the easiest thing to do for the tranny's is this:
For you, use the same one you have. For your buddy with the Z24, get the 2.2 5-speed.
The oldschool 3.1 will be difficult for you on a couple of levels. The most obvious is that your car is ODB II, and the 3.1 is ODB I. As for the 3500 parts, yes you can. I'm not sure this whole thing would be worth it, though, as you could get a newer 3100 or 3400 fairly cheap, and the mods needed for the 3500 upper swap would run you about the same. Secondly, you'll have to look into different ways of mounting that engine. I'm not sure if either of the GA mounts would work on that engine.
I decided to go with a 3100 instead like you said the OBD2 will be much easier to figure out.
It will be much easier to build it up to a 3500 than the old 3.1 would be.
My buddy got the upper mount from the grand am the other day, I went out last night to see it and he had to use part of the stock mount from the Z24 in order to mount it to the frame rail(no problems so far)
Now he is thinking about using the muncie tranny from the second gen and welding the frame side of the mount from the 2nd gen to the 3rd gen on the frame rail, he wants to use the muncie tranny due to the gearing of the transmission but it is going to be fun trying to use the cables to mate up with the third gen shifter!
He is also going to use the second gen turque strut trans mount that goes to the rad support but he is going to beef up the rad support so it will not twist the rad support since there is nothing to these third gens as in metal, more like these cars are made from recycled tin cans.
We run into another problem when he got the mount assembly from the Grand Am, we ran into clearance issues since it changes the configuation of the belt assembly on the motor to clear the mount on the engine, we tried a couple of different ways with the pulleys, he would like to try to delete the AC compressor all together since it will be a play toy rather than a convience car.
This is only the start of the swap!!!!!.
A few things I'd like to note:
The 3100 will not go out to 3500. Or 3400. The 3400 uses a different block casting that allows for the larger bore. The 3500 uses an offset bore so that it will go to 3.5L.
The muncie tranny. Why not the NVG T550? Doing the swap would be the same way the 2.4 guys do it when they use a trans from a 2.3. Cept your donor would come from a 3.1. I don't think that any welding is required that way. Might be something for you to look up in the transmission forum. It's a lot easier than what it sounds like you're going to be attempting.
For the engine mount assembly. I posted the diagram that Robert made. That shows how to make the lower engine mount. For re-routing the accessory belt. There's a way to do that i'm sure. I also know that the 99 Grand Am, 3400's timing cover has an idler pulley on it. You can use the timing cover from it. This will allow you to run the belt, and not have an A/C compressor.
Check out www.domesticcrew.com, and www.60degreev6.com, and even www.v6z24.com for info around that stuff.
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The 3100 will not go out to 3500. Or 3400. The 3400 uses a different block casting that allows for the larger bore. The 3500 uses an offset bore so that it will go to 3.5L.
Crap I guess I will have to go looking for a 3400 then, it would only be a waste of my time then putting in the 3100 and not being able to beef it up.
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The muncie tranny. Why not the NVG T550? Doing the swap would be the same way the 2.4 guys do it when they use a trans from a 2.3. Cept your donor would come from a 3.1. I don't think that any welding is required that way. Might be something for you to look up in the transmission forum. It's a lot easier than what it sounds like you're going to be attempting.
He has a bunch of these Muncie transmissions laying around( or he did) so he decided to go this way as it is the most cost effictive way to do it, instead of going looking to get a tranny (They run app between $400+ around here)
The OE bracket is totally different than what is used in the Third Gens, But I will go hunting and see if there is a easier way to do it using the Muncie with the Third gen mounts.
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Which style mount did you get? The T shaped one from the pre 99, or the small 99+ with the large rubber center piece? If you got the older style, you don't have to do anything to your Z24 mount, other than take the cap off and the top rubber piece. The T bracket bolts right in as your factory unit did. That's the beauty of using the older mount. Also, you can use the J-body poly insert still.
we used the pre 99 mount and used part of the Z24 mount it works perfect!
I was talking to him tonight and I think he is going to try to get a 2.2 Tranny instead of going with the 3.1 Tranny.
On the pre 99 mount, is there a belt clearance issue that I keep missing. If so what is the problem. I ended up getting mine just right but I used a 99+ mount on top, since I used an auto trans I used the front gam mount on the trans for my torque mount. Its not pretty but It works great. But thats not going to work on a stick tranny.
So If I were to do it all over as far as choosing the mounts
I wouldnt pick the 99+ mount if there is an alternative and still be able to use all of the accessories. What mods did you have to do to use the pre 99 mount. aside from the lower mount.
I was looking at the aztec lower mount again yesterday, and thought of this one. Use that lower mount, mount it to the cav subframe with some mods of course. Then mount a hefty torque mount on the top of the frame rail on the pass side. Get a heavier torque mount from a monte carlo or aztec.
I seem to have alot of ideas on the mounts since mine is done and I see what the problem with mine is.
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
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All of them will take the mount from the pre 99 GA. The idler pulley is just in a different spot.
That's where my problem is.... I have to have that idler pulley where it is on the 99, cuz I dont have an A/C compressor. If I move that idler, i cant route the belt.
For the highres pic of the accessories. I dont think i've ever seen anyone have the engine out of the car with all the accessories on it. The 2nd gen guys dont use the new CS130 style alternators, they use their old one and have to modify their brackets for use on the 3x00. So I dont know if I'd even be able to find exactly what you need.
I can see what I can do. I'll have to get access to the digital camera at my parents house first though.
After all the pages in this thread.... I'm sorta lost on the whole thing about the clearance issue with the belt and the pre-99 mount..
HI GUYS, I'M NEW HERE BUT I DID THIS SWAP ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO. BUT SOLD THE CAR ABOUT 6 MONTHS AGO.
HERES SOME INFO I CAN HELP WITH- I USED A 94-97 UPPER G/A 3100 ENGINE MOUNT MOUNTED TO A STOCK 2.2 CAVALIER FRAME MOUNT- HAD TO BE RAISED TO LEVEL THE ENGINE. A LOWER MOUNT- GM # ENDS WITH 0216970 FROM AN OLDER TRANSPORT? WITH A DOGBONE MOUNT WELDED TO IT -USED A STOCK CAVI DOGBONE. THE ENGINE I USED WAS A 3100 FROM A 01 GRANDPRIX, I ALSO ADDED 2 DOGBONES FROM THE ENGINE TO THE "ENFORCED" RADIATOR SUPPORT. DUAL FANS FROM A MALIBU. PIGGYBACKED BOTH THE G/P COMPUTER AND CAVI {TO RUN THE CLUSTER). HAD TO ENABLE THE VATS ON THE G/P WITH THE ORIGINAL KEYS AND SENSOR. CUT AND SPLICED CAVI P/S LINES WITH MALIBU?? SAME WITH THE A/C. USED A STOCK 2.2 CLUTCH-BUILT IN WEAKNESS- TO MAKE SURE NOTHING BROKE. RAN GREAT. TOOK IT TO THE TRACK AND DID A 10.07 WITH THE CLUTCH SLIPPING UNTIL 50MPH- 2.39 60 FOOT TIME.
OH YEAH- HAD TO CHANGE THE FUEL PUMP, CAR WAS A 98 WITH03 BODY MODS- NEWER 2000+ SHOULD NOT HAVE TO CHANGE PUMP. I AM CURRENTLY WORKING ON A 3800SC SWAP, AND A NEWER REAR DISC KIT- OLD ONE USED FIERO DISCS, THIS ONE USES CALIPERS AND STUFF FROM THE NEW G6. THANKS, I WILL CHECK BACK SOON- THEBONDOMAN
ALSO CUT OUT BATTERY BOX AND ROTATED IT 90 DEGREES
What did it run on a 1/4 mile track, or did you ever run there? I was able to pull 10.4 1/8 on my 2.2, so at 10.07 would be unacceptable.
USED A STOCK 2.2 CLUTCH-BUILT IN WEAKNESS- TO MAKE SURE NOTHING BROKE. RAN GREAT. TOOK IT TO THE TRACK AND DID A 10.07 WITH THE CLUTCH SLIPPING UNTIL 50MPH
because SHOoff did not like my time slip- if it had a stronger clutch it would have launched better, thus improving 60 ft and 1/8 mile et. thanks
Doubtful. If it was really slipping that bad to where you were helping your 60' time, the torque of the engine would have killed you on that time with the better clutch. 1st gear is worthless in my car.
I am curious as to the other questions that were asked, have you no answers?
Aditionally, I'm wondering what you did about automatic trans controls? The PCM would have been throwing a fit. Why did you have to change the fuel pump? All j-bodies have used the same pump for like.... over 10 years, v6 or 4cyl. The 2nd gen guys can run a 3400 on the stock pump. Additionally, I am able to 1) run the engine with the stock pump and 2) run the engine rich as hell with the stock pump, why did yours have to be changed?
OK,
---first , you can fool a computer to think it is in gear when it isn't ( (there are only
160 possible wire connections to the pcm))- oh yeah, I used 2 computers
---with the parts I USED, some new gm, others were salvage yard stuff, i needed
to raise the pass side mount 1 " to level my engine.
---i believe that gm has used at least 3 different fuel pump assemblies for 3rd
gen cavaliers, quads, 2.2( to 99), and 2000 and newer engines- my car
was a 98, i used the pump from the donor car, my gm guy told me the
pressure was something like 52-58 for the g/p and 48-52 for the cavi
---what year engine and pcm are you using?? , digital egr?? headers??
exhaust?
---my engine was a bone stock, 100K miles 2001 g/p motor, no fancy exhaust- i
even used a cavi stock airbox and air filter because i had a ramair hood
---push the "profile" button and you can see the engine in the car
i don't have the car anymore but will try to find more pics and answer any of your questions for you
