V6 swap info for 3rd Gens - Page 2 - Third Generation Forum

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Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Monday, November 19, 2007 5:15 PM
^^Depending on the mileage and maintenance history, I'd say that is a great price.

As for your question, don't quote me, but I believe the 3.1 Euro is a DOHC engine.










Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Monday, December 03, 2007 1:59 PM
Nope, Euro 3.1 is just that.... a 3.1. GenII motor. The easiest way to tell the difference is just read the intake. If it's a 2.8 or 3.1, it's crappy Gen II. 3100 or 3400 is the good, Gen III motor. if it's 3100 with lines on it though, it's the small port(not what you want). you want a motor that says just 3100 or 3400, nothing else, no lines, nothing. preferably 3400


14.84 @ 92.04mph

Outdated sig pic FTW!


Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Monday, December 03, 2007 7:09 PM
Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:53 PM
Some more info on the Auto 4t45e.
For any one wanting to know. the 00 and 01 gt transmissions are the same and take the cav axles with no problem. Verified today.

The axle shaft seals are dealer items only, they come in a kit with the seal and inner riding race. Dont bother at local parts stores, they dont have what you need. You will have to fab a tool to remove and install the race. contact me and Ill tell you how to make one if needed.
Be careful when installing because it is made of soft steel and will bend and wobble on the shaft causing the seal to go out .

And make sure your used gam trans has the passenger side stubb shaft in it, you will need that in order to use it with the cav axles. The stubb shaft is about 5 inches long, splines on both ends, it usually gets stuck on the axle when its removed.

In case no one knew, the 4t45e(gam) and 4t40e(cav) both 4spd, look almost Identicle. But the ratio's are different.
Since they are diff ratios, I wasnt going to take the chance of it not working so I went with the grand am trans.
If you want to take the leap and see what happens with the cav 4t40e and the 3400 pcm, you can have a spot in the sticky


01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Saturday, February 02, 2008 9:54 AM
Here's something about the 4T45E I found on grandamgt.com that would be helpful possibly. Looks like it would be good for a swapper to use the 4t45E, and additionally get one as new as possible if they plan on increasing power. I know the new LNF (2.0 Eco/Turbo) can come attached to a 4t45, and it's stock power is 260/260. That's more than the 4t65E-HD in my GTP takes stock (well... 20 less tq) So apparently the upgrades GM has done are working.


Since there seem to always be multiple requests and the information is a bit spread out... I think we should have info on beefing up the 4T45E transmission in here. Especially since at a certain point it is required to make these cars faster. I'll put as much info in here as I can. If I miss anything please add it.


First and most important is the clutch packs. Stockers don't hold much power and will burn up easily. Raybestos powertrain www.raybestospowertrain.com makes a blue plate special clutch pack kit for the 95+ 4T40E/45E, part number RCPBP-29.

Along with that, you can also have the steel plates which go between the clutch plates Koleen nitride coated, which increases their heat and wear resistance. Just for reference, I got both of these from Rossler transmissions in Ohio wwww.rosslertrans.com. The clutch pack kit was $198, the nitriding was $72.50, and new steel plates were $89.44. Those prices where in 2004.

Next up is the differential, which is known to be weak and possible to break, especially if doing one wheel burnouts. Engineered performance www.engineered.netmakes a limited slip unit out of a stock diff in two variations. Street and race. The street unit is softer and limits some wheel spin while still allowing the wheel to turn easily at different speed when going around corners. The race unit uses stiffer springs for more lock and less wheel spin. NOTE: since this is essentially a stock diff casing and gears, it is not inherently any stronger, but the extra resistance to single wheel spinning does reduce stress on the diff and the likeliness of a failure. Cryo treating the diff is always an option too. My race version LSD originally cost $865. I do not know the current pricing.

(EDIT: Mark at MP racing is currently offering the EP diff for $599. http://www.mpracing.org/store/index....&productId=272. I do know that this is the race version.)

Third is the accumulator pistons, which can sometimes crack under high fluid pressure or in high milage trannies. Superior transmission parts inc. www.superior-transmission.com makes aluminum accumulator pistons which are stronger than stock. They're listed for the 4T40E (part# K069) but will also work in the 4T45E. Tejohnson has them in his transmission.

Fourth is the torque converter. The stock one is fairly stout, but many people disagree on what the actual stall speed is. The general opinion is somewhere between 2200 and 3000rpm. There are many places that can and have made custom TC's, so finding and choosing one is up to you. Just look for one with a good reputation if you can. Prices are generally between $300-400. Keep in mind that changing the stall speed willl change how the car drives, and it will require pcm tuning to adjust the TC lock and unlocking or the car may seem to shift strangely.

In addition to those items, GM has made several series of improvements over the years, mostly for durability. Most of this info can be found on the GM powertrain website http://media.gm.com but here is a quick overview of some of the changes.

2002
Engineering Changes to the Valve Body, Pressure Regulator Valve, 2-3 Accumulator Valve and Bore were introduced for the 02 model year 4T45E. Some transmissions through the 03 model year production where affected. They switched from a cross drilled to a solid pressure regulator valve. The 2002-2003 also used a different valve body that eliminated the 2-3 accumulator valve and bore. When replacing the pressure regulator valve in a 95-01 tranny with the solid one, a special spacer plate and gasket set must be used to keep pressures correct. All these parts are included in the overhaul kit #24224525.

2003
-MORE ACCURATE LINE PRESSURE CONTROL SOLENOID
A solenoid is an electro-magnetically-operated valve. In this transaxle it controls fluid pressure to the clutches, affecting the smoothness of the shifts. This solenoid was replaced by a unit manufactured with more precision and the result is less variation in line pressure and more accurate operation.
-SEALED PRESSURE SWITCHES
There are six pressure switches and a temperature sensor on a manifold attached to the valve body inside the transaxle. These switches signal the control module when various shifting actions occur. The switches have been partially sealed to reduce the possibility of contaminants in the fluid impairing their operation. This results in greater reliability of operation.
-DRIVEN SPROCKET SUPPORT THRUST WASHER IMPROVED
A thrust washer is a flat, round bearing that axially locates the driven sprocket gear against the driven sprocket support of the transaxle. Tabs were added to the washer so that it will be positively located on the driven sprocket support during assembly. This results in easier assembly. The material was also revised to a high temperature nylon to increase its toughness.

2004
-HIGHER CAPACITY INPUT SUN GEAR THRUST BEARNG
The thrust bearing supports the sun gear thrust load. This needle bearing was upgraded through the use of more and larger needle elements, increasing its capacity. All applications of 4T40-E and 4T45-E receive this upgrade.
-QUICKER APPLY OF REVERSE CLUTCH
The clutch that engages reverse gear should be fully engaged before torque flows through the transaxle. The engagement of the reverse clutch was made more rapid via hydraulic tuning, preventing the clutch from slipping during rapid simultaneous engagement of reverse gear and application of throttle. The tuning is performed through orifices located inside the clutch, which control how quickly it engages. This change ultimately improves the reverse clutch durability.
HIGHER CAPACITY PUMP SHAFT BEARING
The capacity of the hydraulic pump shaft bearing, a radial needle bearing, was increased by adding to the number of internal needles. This allows the transaxle to handle more torque, as well as increasing its durability. (note: I found in the process of my rebuild that the newer pump shaft itself also has a beefier locating flange welded on, so it can also benefit from being replaced in earlier transmissions)

2005
-BOSSES ADDED FOR STIFFNESS
On the 4 cylinder applications, bosses are added to the case to allow fasteners to attach to stamped brackets connected to the engine oil pans. This increases driveline stiffness which results in reduced noise and vibration.
-DETENT LEVER MODIFIED FOR REDUCED SHIFT EFFORT
The detent lever profile is modified to provide lower shift effort when shifting out of Park position, and to create more uniform efforts in all of the quadrant positions of the shift lever.
-NEW PASS-THROUGH ELECTRICAL CONNECTOR
The transmission pass-through wiring connector is modified with a second locking tab to improve the connection integrity and reliability. This is a 20-way electrical connector.

(note:the '05 changes that are applicable to the GA are not critical for power handling)

2006
-New heat treatment process of final drive gearset for increased durability
The final drive gearset heat treatment process was changed to a broaching process to further increase durability.
-New heat treatment process of final drive gearset for increased durability
The final drive gearset heat treatment process was changed to a broaching process to further increase durability.
-New heat treatment process of final drive gearset for increased durability
The final drive gearset heat treatment process was changed to a broaching process to further increase durability.
-DEXRONŽ VI premium fluid validated to improve durability and shift stability
A new transmission fluid, DEXRONŽ VI, was developed to have a more consistent viscosity profile; a more consistent shift performance in extreme conditions; and less degredation over time. Internal GM tests have demonstrated DEXRONŽ VI to deliver more than twice the durability and stability in friction tests compared to existing fluids. This fluid is validated and required in all 2006 4T45-E transmissions.


Some of these improvements aren't necessarily vital to add to your transmission, while others like improved bearings and such can easily be incorporated if you are already doing a re-build anyway. There are various other things you can do like shot peening and/or cryo treating gears and other parts. The input and output sprockets in particular are known for pitting on the faces of the gear teeth in higher HP cars, and should be replaced if needed along with the drive chain.




Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Friday, February 15, 2008 8:28 AM
Wow very inpresive. There is hope for a 3-gen after all, hehe. I may have to find me a 3-gen Z24 now that there may be a home after all for my 3400 parts and custom gearbox. I remember asking the j-body brand mananger why they droped the V6, he said it would fit and they wanted to used. It was crash test they made them go with the 4cyl. Are there any good LSD for a the older transmissions these days, I have the old Quad 4 W-41 Achevia (wo/LSD) trans right now.



Dan Bettis, 92 Z24, Formerly owned 86 and 87 Z24.
http://www.zrracing.com
Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Saturday, February 16, 2008 7:53 PM
Your W41 trans won't bolt to the V6, different bolt pattern.

Your best bet is (if using a 3rd gen) is to find one with a 2.2l non-eco and go from there.









Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:44 PM
Vehicle sources for the 3400:

A:Alero '00 3.4L (VIN E, 6-207), Federal (NF2)
A:Alero '01-02 3.4L (VIN E, 6-207)
A:Aztek '01-02 (3.4L, VIN "E", 6-207), Federal (NF4, NF7)
A:Grand Am '00 3.4L (VIN E, 6-207), Fed
A:Grand Am '01-02 3.4L (VIN E, 6-207)
A:Montana '00 (3.4L, VIN "E", 6-207), Federal (NF2)
A:Montana '01-02 (3.4L, VIN "E", 6-207), Federal (NF4, NF7)
A:Rendezvous '02 (3.4L, VIN "E", 6-207), Federal (NF4, NF7)
A:Silhouette '00 (3.4L, VIN "E", 6-207), Federal (NF2)
A:Silhouette '01-02 (3.4L, VIN "E", 6-207), Federal (NF4, NF7)
A:Trans Sport '00 (Canada, 3.4L, VIN E, 6-207)
A:Venture '00 (3.4L, VIN "E", 6-207), Federal (NF2)
A:Venture '01-02 (3.4L, VIN "E", 6-207), Federal (NF4, NF7)
B:Impala '00 3.4L (VIN E, 6-207), Federal (NF2)
B:Impala '01-02 3.4L (VIN E, 6-207)
B:Monte Carlo '00 3.4L (VIN E, 6-207), Federal (NF2)
B:Monte Carlo '01-02 3.4L (VIN E, 6-207)









Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Monday, February 25, 2008 3:24 AM
I must point out about some peoples swaps and quests for extra power. I saw Nitrous Nate talking about decking the heads in one of his posts.

YOU CANNOT DO THIS ON THE 3400.

The pistons on this engine come proud of the block as they reach the top of their stroke.
Decking the head leaves you with not enough clearance and some damage to pistons.
Just thought I would note this before anyone wants to try it so I can hopefully save someone an engine.

Also, a recent post has led me to see something not in this thread that need specified.

You use the clutch and flywheel assembly for the particular transmission.

Example = me. I'm running the tranny for a 97 2.2 Cavalier. So, I use a clutch and flywheel for that.
Stage II minimum reccomended (i don't have any problems with mine holding power).
Also, all 3.1 and 2.2 OHV engines use the same flywheel, so it doesn't really matter what you get, all the PN's are the same for them.
The 3.1/2.2 flywheel bolts to the 3400's crankshaft.
Just thought i'd clear that up, since nobody reads the other V6 swap thread anymore.

Anyone wishing to run Megasquirt-II with their 3400 swap. I have a tune available if you would like it.
So send me a PM if you come to where you wish to have it. I will likely not see your request for several months if you try to send me email from the board .
I cannot guarantee that this is an excellent tune for you. I strongly suggest that you tweak it for yourself, or have it done at a shop with tuning capabilities as there are some differences in engines over the years.
It's not my fault if you use MY tune and blow YOUR engine. But it will at least be a starting point for you.





Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Monday, February 25, 2008 7:16 PM
Quote:

Also, a recent post has led me to see something not in this thread that need specified.


+1, be extra careful when pulling an engine from a "van" type vehicle. Due to intended usage, there are several differences than the cars which could cause you to not be able to run wiring/hoses properly. Best bet is to stick to the GAM/Alero/Monte/Impala









Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Tuesday, February 26, 2008 3:40 PM
Oil Cooler info:

Hayden #242, fits all 60*V6's for the sammich, or 291 for the remote mount (which you can then pipe through a cooler)

http://www.haydenauto.com/catalogs/hayden/2007-hayden-trans-oil-coolers.pdf

- Summit Racing Combination Fluid Coolers; Dual Circuit Unit; Two Independent Coolers, One for Engine Cooler and One for the Transmission Oil. Part# G4978

18 mm Oil Cooler Adapter from Glowshift - Product Number: GS-OC02, will need cooler seperately

Perma-cool oil filter sammich - also need seperate cooler
(I refuse to spell sandwich correctly )

Perma-cool kit (with cooler)

However, the Hayden appears to the be the best unit due to being a thermostatic design (think engine coolant). The oil filter specs are 18mm-1.5 if you are looking for one seperately. These are better for colder climates.










Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:43 PM
Don't want AC or can't find the right compressor at the right price?

Dorman Air Conditioning Bypass Pulley - 34217

There's also a method where one of the grooved pulleys is used as a bypass pulley, but this one will utilize the stock belt.









Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Friday, February 29, 2008 12:13 PM
I think you have to have the timing cover for the Grand Am in order for the bypass using the idler pulley for it to work. Either that you you need to drill/tap a hole for the other timing covers to hold the pulley. And that usually tends not to look as pretty.





Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:31 AM
The AC bypass pulley just replaces the compressor, which sits in the same place on both the 3400 and the 3100. It doesn't matter if the lower idler pulley is there or not. Check out the picture of the accessory belt routing differences in my first post, and you'll see what I mean.




Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:45 AM
Quiklilcav wrote:

The AC bypass pulley just replaces the compressor, which sits in the same place on both the 3400 and the 3100. It doesn't matter if the lower idler pulley is there or not. Check out the picture of the accessory belt routing differences in my first post, and you'll see what I mean.


Right, which is the one I have now. I remember seeing an alternate method, but don't remember how it worked.









Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Saturday, March 15, 2008 2:00 PM
FYI guys, if anyone is interested, here's the final version of the upper mount for using the factory J-body frame rail bracket with the 94-98 N-body accessory and upper mount setup:



Thought I'd post it up. These can be made to order, and can be anodized in any number of colors.
PM me if you want more info.

Disclaimer for the mods: I'm not a business, and I don't make money on them. I designed them and I have them made.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, March 15, 2008 2:09 PM


Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:06 PM
will a 3900 LZ9 fit too? bcuz its a 60-degree with varible cam timing...

also what about the LQ1 (dual cam)?



Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:52 PM
Quiklilcav wrote:

FYI guys, if anyone is interested, here's the final version of the upper mount for using the factory J-body frame rail bracket with the 94-98 N-body accessory and upper mount setup:



Although I was not able to get the right bolts today (so they are quite loose... 1 or 2 threads deep):





Here is where using the 94-98 mount has an issue... Aside from the front of the engine sitting 1" lower, circled below is where the alt presses into the AC part:



The redesign is definitely a good alternative to the other mounting options

(as a side note, my PS lines are being replaced)

Quote:

will a 3900 LZ9 fit too? bcuz its a 60-degree with varible cam timing...


http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=30&i=43941&t=43941









Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:44 PM
Since I forgot about this post:















Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Sunday, June 22, 2008 12:33 PM
Well, Well, Well...
Looks like I get to do a swap in my 98 GT automatic (2.4).
Car broke down on me, no one knew what it was. My uncle got to it and said something about the #2 valve overheated and "welded itsself to the rail". So, instead of replacing it with another 2.4, a friend of my dad's wants to do a swap. Hes going to sell me the engine, and do the swap for $600.
$300 labor, $300 engine.
I haven't gotten to talk to him about it very much, but what would be your guys' opinions, input, and questions? I don't know if he knows about all of the special tricks around the exhaust, mounts, and everything else.
Also, do you know if the starter and alternator would be bolt-ons or if I would have to sell my 1month old parts?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.



___________________________
I'm too poor to have a sig.
Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Sunday, June 22, 2008 12:42 PM
Mykro wrote:

Well, Well, Well...
Looks like I get to do a swap in my 98 GT automatic (2.4).
Car broke down on me, no one knew what it was. My uncle got to it and said something about the #2 valve overheated and "welded itsself to the rail". So, instead of replacing it with another 2.4, a friend of my dad's wants to do a swap. Hes going to sell me the engine, and do the swap for $600.
$300 labor, $300 engine.
I haven't gotten to talk to him about it very much, but what would be your guys' opinions, input, and questions? I don't know if he knows about all of the special tricks around the exhaust, mounts, and everything else.
Also, do you know if the starter and alternator would be bolt-ons or if I would have to sell my 1month old parts?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Sorry, Its a 98 Sunfire GT.

I know most of you guys have Cavs, but any help and input would be awesome.


___________________________
I'm too poor to have a sig.

Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Sunday, June 22, 2008 1:12 PM
Please start a new thread if you have questions. Stickies should not be question and answer threads. If new information comes out during someone's swap, or during discussions in other threads, it can be added, but to keep stickies clean, we need to keep the Q & A out of them.

Thanks.





Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:18 AM
nice read guys. now im def. not doin this swap LMAO!!


ECOtec DOHC

Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Tuesday, August 05, 2008 8:35 PM
well its not for everyone paul.

Guys make sure to change your oil pump drive shaft O-ring and the thermostat while the engine is out.




01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e

Re: V6 swap info for 3rd Gens
Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:58 PM
It would be awsome if a company or a person would make a whole "swap kit"
Complete with mounts, wiring harnesses. That would be sweet.



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