grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav - Third Generation Forum

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grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Saturday, April 19, 2014 9:32 PM
please help. will the 4t65-e fit? gauge hookups?

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."

Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Saturday, April 19, 2014 10:16 PM
Not without modification to the frame rails in the engine bay. It has been done, but only once that I can recall at the moment. There are gauge options, the one member that I'm thinking of completely rewired his car to that of the donor car, or you could use the 2000+ gauges and interior wiring with an Impala BCM; 2000-05 Impala I believe with a non-aspirated motor.

As far as the transmission, what most people do is swap to a Getrag 5-speed from a 2200 car and remove the auto tranny codes with HPTuners, as that is generally easier. It's far less worth it to try and make an auto transmission smaller than the 4T65E try to work.



Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Sunday, April 20, 2014 10:52 AM
That would be me but I used the L67, the supercharged version. Way more fun. If you're going to bother with the 3800 swap without the blower.. it's a lot of work. You're better off with an Eco swap and a bolt on GM supercharger kit for ease of swap.

I put an 00 Buick Park Ave Ultra drivetrain (L67 with 4T40E-HD) and all the wiring into my 00 Cavalier convertible. Had all sorts of issues with getting the Passkey3 to work and deleting everything else. It was a wiring nightmare, and it was really hard to try and track down some of my wiring issues. Plus, my ABS, airbags, and TC never worked. Nor did my fogs, DRLs (not that I wanted them), and a few other things. I ended up with four fuse panels scattered around the car. It was a mess!!! And the gauges out of the Park Avenue are very much 'grampa'-like.

I am currently in the process of swapping the entire electrical system to a 2004 Monte Carlo SS, including the boost gauge in the factory cluster.. looks much better than the Park Ave!
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Sunday, April 20, 2014 2:56 PM
heres where im at. my cav is at the mechanics, so is the gt. from what ive read one of these trannies will work. I understand the fab side of it and getting things to be held in right. its a matter of do i need something stuppid like a machined fly wheel. Im not buying a tranny and I work for an electronics company and have the brains of 3 EE's i can pick, I my self am also electrically apt. that being said we arent computer programmers and don't know obd signalling. I'm thinking i will just replace my gauges with ohmeters and voltmeters. for the speedometer(which i don't really care about) I have my avic-n2 and worst comes to worst my phone and an old garmin. odometer doesnt even need to be in the dash just somewhere i can check every so often. 3 obd ports is fine with me its more a matter of what my junkyard has for pcm's bcm's ecm's ....

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Sunday, April 20, 2014 3:41 PM
double checked, my fuel gauge should work.

I don't want to drill and tap my block for a temp sensor, is there another location?

tachometer I guess is the only thing i'm worried about as I do wish to have that working.

If I can swap the tranny as well couldn't i just use all the 3800 computers?

Does the fuel pump always run at the same rate or is it varied by the computer?

My worry with the tranny is will I need special length or different spline axles? I'm pretty sure that means lots of money.

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Monday, April 21, 2014 5:48 AM
You have an 02 Cavalier, so you're in luck electronically. It's the 95-99 guys that have the issues.

If you do this swap, you really shouldn't bother if you're not using the supercharged version. If you do the SC version, get the computer and wiring from an 02-04 Impala. Your factory gauge cluster, the engine, and the 4t65e tranny will all run properly. It's just a matter of fabbing mounts, and (highly recommended) a more solid subrame.

Lenko will probably know on the axles, but I don't think you'll need any custom ones. You might have to make your own hybrid, but I doubt you'll even need to do that.



I'm cleaning out my garage!
Billet upper mount for 3rd gen V6 swap!


Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Monday, April 21, 2014 9:54 AM
I used the axles from the Park Ave, just sent the inner shafts to Dutchman to get shorter ones made. Then I put the CV's together myself. It was a matter of measuring them once the engine & trans was mounted in the car, to figure out how long I needed them. Ended up being the exact same length (in the Park Ave, one side was longer). I guess the drivetrain is moved over in my car.. oh well. Works fine. It is much narrower than the C-body car.
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Monday, April 21, 2014 6:08 PM
@mr. quick

1 I have a non supercharged grand prix, I am not buying another engine.

2 my mechanic is the best around, good welder too. he will be re-enforceing the front a good deal as a big 3.8 isn't the only thing it's getting in the front.

3 if I swap over the computer and harness from a non sc impala will the compatibility be just as nice?

4 or because the non sc impala has no tach should I get one from an sc and have it tuned for lack of force induction?

@lenko

5 so axles are two part?

6 why do the inner shafts need to be shortened if the park ave had exactly the same length axles?

7 what year park ave?

8 I want to order them now if i can, mechanic should begin work by the 6th. can you point me in the right direction? he told me they shouldn't cost much.

9 I was under the impression that the tranny would bolt right in, this means the axles will be in a predetermined spot and not unique to my engine mounting correct?

10 What does CV stand for?



About myself:
"I'm still a crazy Canadian.. and I still like to do stuff that other people haven't thought of as being possible, just to prove them wrong (especially GM techs, ha ha!)."

Aside from the canadian bit (although I would like to move to canadia), I am similar. When my car has most of what I want on it, many people will call me crazy. At times I may sound like an ass or a know-it-all, I assure you I am not. I try to be thorough and am often times blunt. It is my mix of confidence and and bluntness that makes others dislike me when read. I try to be honest with everyone and If you ask me for help, I will no matter how I feel about you. I do what I can with what little time and money I have.

My cav suddenly started burning oil at an alarmingly fast rate, I think maybe a clogged blowby valve was the start of the issue. It being 180k I was going to buy a new cav when my wife said get a new engine because it has barely any rust and it has new wheel bearings, joints, some other things as well. 3500$ out of the tax return later.....I'm the luckiest guy around with a wife this great. our third child is coming the end of october, I want this car to be bulletproof. No supercharger, no overworked small engine, just add some luggage racks and bedliner. I'm taking out the carpeting and headliner, if I seal it right and make the malibu seats removable I could practically hose the child mess out of the inside. I don't expect most of you to like what I do with my car.

BTW my car currently has 3 batteries and I stick weld with them, this is how I fixed my trunk latch when it rusted off.

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Monday, April 21, 2014 7:55 PM
2. Sounds expensive

3. It should

5. Axles for our cars are a shaft with a CV joint on both sides

6. The axles were too long for the J-body, even with his wider N-body control arms

7. Wasn't it a 2000?

9. A 6T60E will not bolt right in, I believe the frame rails have to be modified to clearance the transmission (it's a much larger transmission than our 3T40E and 4T40E), and custom mounts will have to be made.

10. Constant Velocity

A 3800 swap and reliable car do not go hand in hand, I wouldn't even consider the swap for a daily driver. A supercharged eco swap would be more reliable, just not as fun.



Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Tuesday, April 22, 2014 5:53 AM
Mark Smith wrote:

@mr. quick

1 I have a non supercharged grand prix, I am not buying another engine.

2 my mechanic is the best around, good welder too. he will be re-enforceing the front a good deal as a big 3.8 isn't the only thing it's getting in the front.

3 if I swap over the computer and harness from a non sc impala will the compatibility be just as nice?

4 or because the non sc impala has no tach should I get one from an sc and have it tuned for lack of force induction?
If there is a non-SC 3800 Impala, that will work. However, I believe the only 3800 found in the 02-04 Impala is SC. The non-SC are 3400 or 3500 engines, and the tuning won't work. I could be wrong. You could probably flash the computer as a SC, and then have the engine maps copied over from a non-SC (someone with the credits for both on HPT could do this). The tach signal will be present in the data stream from the computer even if the cluster has no tach, so it will work fine.



I'm cleaning out my garage!
Billet upper mount for 3rd gen V6 swap!


Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Tuesday, April 22, 2014 9:27 AM
I thought the L36 was offered in the impala, as I thought the police version was a L36/4T65E HD




Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Tuesday, April 22, 2014 5:31 PM
there are l36 impalas, my wife has one.

@ lenko

9 its a 6t45-e not a 6t60

6 So only the inner had to be machined or outer too?

4 I figured it would still have a tach signal just wanted to check.

what issues are there that this can't be a daily driver? reliability? if I can swap the tranny too I see no reason why it wouldn't be just as if not more reliable as it will be pushing less weight.

I thought I hit the jackpot with years, why won't the gt bcm work fine?

parts list thus far: mechanic is buying shocks and mounts. I might need an impala bcm. sound right?

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Tuesday, April 22, 2014 5:52 PM
Just found this post of yours:

"Squisher, it's called doing something different. Some people actually like the look and/or feel of these cars, but want to build something more unique. Not everyone wants to have a "typical" performance car. Some people like the challenge of taking something ordinary and making it stand out. You're in the wrong place if you don't understand that."

so keep telling me my cav can't be a 3.8 and reliable, I'll keep throwing money at it until I'm right, lolz. I WILL work 60 hour weeks for my cav, and I have 4 Bikes worth 2-500$ a piece, when the bikes are sold I will walk until my cav runs. I love my cav, It Will be the car of my dreams. I always wanted an 03 gtr34 vspec, as I got older I realized it's much more fun to walk softly and carry a big stick where no one can see it.

No one will care if a skyline beats them, However this guy in a newer v-8 jag was torqued when my cav took the extreme curves better than he could, great night for sure. He was over shooting the stop lights by car lengths. http://www.web2carz.com/110925292/2010/jaguar/xf/used-cars/for-sale?w2caf=8be436a6a4e0a591
Same color but he had tinted the windows.

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Thursday, April 24, 2014 12:23 PM
As for my axles... the Park Avenue (yes, it was a 2000) is a wider car... technically a G-body, but GM called it a C-body. So the CV/axle shafts had to be shortened. I had new ones made up, equal length, by Dutchman. They are 34-spline axles, unlike all the other non-L67. Yours will probably be the 31 or 32 spline ones, which are more common and likely cheaper. But you will have to have shorter axles made, as the W-car is still wider than the J-car.

I used the stock inners, with custom (equal length) shafts, and the C-body outers with N-body knuckles and F-body brakes. My car is a cluster F.
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Thursday, April 24, 2014 1:37 PM
jeez! really sounds like a cluster!
why all the different parts, just what you had? I won't have to get more than different axles right?
from tranny out to a wheel what is the part order?(I.E., tranny, balljoint, axle, cv, bearing...or whatever.)
I don't know much about suspension/drivetrain.

Would it be unreasonable to think I could swap over the bigger front brakes and applicable hardware or is this just unneccessary?
I know I will have to get better pads at least and that I should get bigger rotors. My current rotors were brand new maybe 5-10k ago so could I just get more abrasive/tougher pads and just let them wear faster?
Obviously this creates more heat, is getting them slotted/drilled worth it or should I just get bigger rotors?


Sorry if I sounded like a butthole earlier, I'm just sick of people telling me to kiss my cav goodbye whether they are right or not I love my car and love isn't rational.
In all seriousness what are your worries with it being reliable?

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Thursday, April 24, 2014 4:18 PM
I plan on turning mine into a daily driver this summer... as long as it's done right, it can be reliable. The 3800's are some of GM's better "reliability" motors.
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Monday, April 28, 2014 6:58 AM
skoronesa Mark Smith wrote:

Just found this post of yours:

"Squisher, it's called doing something different. Some people actually like the look and/or feel of these cars, but want to build something more unique. Not everyone wants to have a "typical" performance car. Some people like the challenge of taking something ordinary and making it stand out. You're in the wrong place if you don't understand that."

so keep telling me my cav can't be a 3.8 and reliable, I'll keep throwing money at it until I'm right, lolz. I WILL work 60 hour weeks for my cav, and I have 4 Bikes worth 2-500$ a piece, when the bikes are sold I will walk until my cav runs. I love my cav, It Will be the car of my dreams. I always wanted an 03 gtr34 vspec, as I got older I realized it's much more fun to walk softly and carry a big stick where no one can see it.

No one will care if a skyline beats them, However this guy in a newer v-8 jag was torqued when my cav took the extreme curves better than he could, great night for sure. He was over shooting the stop lights by car lengths. http://www.web2carz.com/110925292/2010/jaguar/xf/used-cars/for-sale?w2caf=8be436a6a4e0a591
Same color but he had tinted the windows.
skoronesa Mark Smith wrote:

Sorry if I sounded like a butthole earlier, I'm just sick of people telling me to kiss my cav goodbye whether they are right or not I love my car and love isn't rational.
In all seriousness what are your worries with it being reliable?

I'm really lost as to why the above rant, but I don't see where anyone in this thread said your car wouldn't be reliable. The reason people said not to bother with the L36 is because you're adding a lot of weight without gaining a ton of performance. The L67 is much more powerful, so it offsets the weight added to the car to make it worth it. Most of us here support V6 swapping these cars, and if you look, everything I told you was about how to make it work. I wasn't aware that GM made an 02+ Impala with the L36, so I offered you another solution to still have everything work properly.




I'm cleaning out my garage!
Billet upper mount for 3rd gen V6 swap!


Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Monday, April 28, 2014 9:49 AM
yeah sorry, I was dealing with some stuff and took it out on here. Any way I can help others I am happy to do so, If you know any one in ct that could use it please let me know.

Thank you guys for all the help. It's looking like the only thing I have to worry about is the axles and my mechanic acts like its no problem so now its just a waiting game. its driving me nuts having to drive the truck for so long. the other day I took my wifes impala for a drive, boy I'm stoked.

So what are the reccomendations on 14" tires? I want something that is really knobby, preferably something that can take studs for winter, lots of dirt roads around here. For wet roads I want lots of sipes right?

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Monday, April 28, 2014 9:33 PM
I raced my 3800 once without the belt, it was such a dog, I put the belt right back on.

IMO, swap the engine, then do a top swap, you wont regret it.



Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Tuesday, April 29, 2014 7:13 PM
@BoostedJ

"My cav suddenly started burning oil at an alarmingly fast rate, I think maybe a clogged blowby valve was the start of the issue. It being 180k I was going to buy a new cav when my wife said get a new engine because it has barely any rust and it has new wheel bearings, joints, some other things as well. 3500$ out of the tax return later.....I'm the luckiest guy around with a wife this great. our third child is coming the end of october, I want this car to be bulletproof. No supercharger, no overworked small engine, just add some luggage racks and bedliner. I'm taking out the carpeting and headliner, if I seal it right and make the malibu seats removable I could practically hose the child mess out of the inside. I don't expect most of you to like what I do with my car."

That is one of my earlier posts. I don't have money for anything other than a swap and this engine needs to last. When I was looking ofr a donor I saw the gtp's and ls's, I drooled but money wise it wasn't possible.

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Wednesday, April 30, 2014 5:00 PM
Okay, swap the 3800.... top swap later.




Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:14 AM
Im not even going to put what i think of this since it would be a waste.... All this talk about this swap and it will never happen just like all the others who post how do i swap this or that.... do research... if your really going to do this swap you should put the work into it not others.................


Erik Packard
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Wednesday, May 14, 2014 5:01 PM
@Ricozero
From the sounds of it I don't want to hear what you think.
All this talk? Did you not read the part where my cav AND the car that the engine/tranny/cradle is coming from is already at the mechanics?
the only thing I didn't put is that the mechanic already has several grand of my money in advance.
I am probably not doing a top swap no matter how much boostedj wants me to.
And yes I have done research, unfortunately the bulk of the information on this is in jbo and the custom search doesn't work for me, I don't know why.
I would have to be a fool not ask what length axles I need instead of wasting time.
As for myself not doing the work, I have 2 kids, a pregnant wife, live in an apartment, and work 50 hours a week. I am sorry I don't have time or access to a mechanics shop.
I am however very electrically apt and will be doing a lot of the electrical work. You don't hire a plumber to fix your lawn mower why in the hell would I attempt the engine swap?

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:01 AM
skoronesa Mark Smith wrote:

As for myself not doing the work, I have 2 kids, a pregnant wife, live in an apartment, and work 50 hours a week...
Seems to me that your priorities might be a little off. If this is your reason for not having time to do all the legwork and research, maybe you should be putting this off until you have more time. If you can afford to have a daily driver while you build a car for fun, then take your time and enjoy the project. Enjoy learning new things. If you can't afford a daily driver, and this is your only form of transportation, you shouldn't be dumping money into modifying it as you are.

My car has taken me years to get where it is, precicely because I have kids and other responsibilities. They are not an excuse to cut corners and rush things IMO.
[/soapbox]



I'm cleaning out my garage!
Billet upper mount for 3rd gen V6 swap!


Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Thursday, May 15, 2014 10:21 AM
I have and am using another vehicle. My priorities are not my reason for not doing research, I have been doing a lot of research. I was saying I can't do much of the physical work on my car that is required for an engine swap. I have my priorities in order which is why my car is taking a backseat, nothing comes before my family. I don't cut corners on anything I do.

I dont want to be seen as the new guy who thinks he can pick fights with senior members. On the other hand this is my build thread and i dont appreciate some guy coming in here and basically calling it a pipe dream and me a leech. My priorities are of no consequence to anyone but me and my own.

I want to thank those you who have helped me again, I was really worried starting this. It wasnt even my idea, it was my wifes. She knows how much i love my cav and i was going to just get a work van and let the cav sit behind the barn.

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
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