grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav - Page 2 - Third Generation Forum

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Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Friday, May 16, 2014 12:57 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't calling you a leach, I'm saying you seem to be in a hurry to get the quick answers to things, in other threads besides this one. This leads me to believe you're not really trying to research the answers.

The level of mods you're doing are usually not something am inexperienced enthusiast gets into right away. You appear to be trying to leap over a huge amount of learning that most enthusiasts go through, and you're not really doing yourself a favor that respect.

My statement regarding your priorities is because you made it sound like this is your main vehicle, and want all this stuff done ASAP because you rely it.



I'm cleaning out my garage!
Billet upper mount for 3rd gen V6 swap!



Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Friday, May 16, 2014 2:10 PM
I wasn't saying you called me a leech. You seem to be one of the most knowledgable guys here, and very courteous to boot.

My cavalier attitude(if you'll excuse the pun), stems from my confidence in my mechanic. He is one of the best around. Had he been born later he would have had access to higher schooling and gone on to do much greater things than fix cars. This guy is damn near a genius. I know that my car is in good hands, any ideas I have get filtered through him. The racing culture here is well spread with many guys racing in lebanon valley on the weekends. I don't live too far from limerock park racetrack. There are a number of good mechanics around.

I don't want to race my car, I want the power of a sedan in the smaller package of a cavalier. Just about the only time I have to myself anymore is my short commute.

Unlike most people I try to overcome my ego and accept constructive criticism especially from those with experience. As far as leaping over certain things, well, I only have one chance to get this swap done, anything else can be fixed later.

From what I've gathered the lumina springs seem to be the simplest option. an off the shelf part that will carry the load for now and can be upgraded later. Are we relatively sure they can be used in both front and rear? I read both suspension lift threads and It wasn't clear to me.

As for the exhaust do they sell header flanges by themselves, no pipes attached so you can weld your own?

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Monday, May 19, 2014 4:37 AM
I haven't seen any bare flanges available for the 3800, but I haven't really looked, either. It's probably something you will have to make yourself. I would check out one of the forums that deal with that engine. Someone may have the dimensions, and if you're lucky, the DXF file for it may be posted.



I'm cleaning out my garage!
Billet upper mount for 3rd gen V6 swap!


Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Monday, May 19, 2014 1:16 PM
Just stopped by the mechanics. he says he can do the whole exhaust himsef no problem so that's cool. He says he plans to start by dropping the gt subframe/engine/tranny on wednesday. hes real busy as always so i dont know if he will actually get to start then but im hoping.

my mother in law says she wants to give my wife and I a day to ourselves before the next kid comes so im hoping he starts within 2 weeks or so, dont want it to be super hot if i dont have ac. pregnant women and 99* weather dont mix well for a pleasant day.

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Monday, May 19, 2014 2:36 PM
As for the flanges. I have seen his torch. 1/4" plate steel, or better yet old snow plow blades, is easy to come by. He said he can bend pipe. Only thing left is to cut a gasket.

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Tuesday, May 20, 2014 4:10 AM
Check out ZZP. I think they sell the flanges for the 3800, now that I think about it.



I'm cleaning out my garage!
Billet upper mount for 3rd gen V6 swap!


Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Tuesday, May 20, 2014 2:43 PM
Thanks for the tip. I searched zzp and found these: http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/350-Exhaust-Flanges.aspx
I have to ask my mechanic if he can weld stainless. If he can I would try to do a stainless header and down pipe for now and make the rest stainless later. the stainless flange seems to be the only one where the three holes are one piece versus individual flanges. My question is stainless or regular? I don't know how well stainless welds to mild though I think i heard it can be done.

a couple months after I got my cav the flexpipe blew. It may have been the original so I wasn't surprised, looked ike it had taken a beating. I lost the new flexpipe after a stick went through it. the third and current one I asked my mechanic to instead put at least a 10" truck flexpipe on. he found a 14" double wall tough-as-all-get-out flexpipe. on the first flexpipe my muffler strap had been broken a while. it was fixed for my next one but one of the rubber isolator mounts had rusted off by the time it got the stick. for the third all of this was fixed. I got a couple extra rubber isolators new from a buddy that match stock. he also gave me some that look like they came off a truck because they are fiber reenforced rubber strips with metal ends. Is there any flex method better than this that I could use on the new setup?

I will be adding skid plates so hopefully no more sticks. for now most of the "skid pates" will be scrap aluminum sheets from work just to stop pebbles, mud, small sticks. I do want a thick one right off the bat under the winch with some length wise tube sections to take the brunt of any serious nose dive impact. I was thinking leaf springs cut in half and only attached at one end would be good. this way they have some give and won't send the shock to the frame.

My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Wednesday, May 21, 2014 8:12 AM
skoronesa Mark Smith wrote:

Thanks for the tip. I searched zzp and found these: http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/350-Exhaust-Flanges.aspx
I have to ask my mechanic if he can weld stainless. If he can I would try to do a stainless header and down pipe for now and make the rest stainless later. the stainless flange seems to be the only one where the three holes are one piece versus individual flanges. My question is stainless or regular? I don't know how well stainless welds to mild though I think i heard it can be done..
Yes, those are the ones. I would personally go with stainless, and I would go stainless all the way, and not worry about welding it to mild steel. Why would you mix?




I'm cleaning out my garage!
Billet upper mount for 3rd gen V6 swap!


Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:10 AM
I would prefer not to mix. I dont know if he can weld stainless. But money wise stainless out the bottom and mild back. So later on the mild would be easy to replace. Basically custom stainless header and piece the rest together from the stock exhaust.


My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:02 AM
If the welding is TIG and you're mating stainless to carbon steel, the proper wire is 309 wire.

I have a stainless collector on a mild still header for my turbo header and its done with 309 and its solid. With the proper welding rod, there is no issue doing it.






"A car just isn't a car without a little blood, sweat, and beers." -- Shadowfire
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:43 AM
skoronesa wrote:

I would prefer not to mix. I dont know if he can weld stainless. But money wise stainless out the bottom and mild back. So later on the mild would be easy to replace. Basically custom stainless header and piece the rest together from the stock exhaust.
Then I would make each section out of the same...for example, header stainless to 3 bolt flange...if you're going mild back from there, start it with a mild 3 bolt flange. That way, you can upgrade it later by simply unbolting the section.

But that's just me. I prefer to keep everything clean like that.



I'm cleaning out my garage!
Billet upper mount for 3rd gen V6 swap!



Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Wednesday, May 21, 2014 7:47 PM
@Mr.quick you hit the nail on the head. I don't know if he has tig or mig or just stick. We have a great welder in town, it would cost a ot to have him come to the shop and do it but I could aways just have the mechanic tac it together and then I just bring it to the welders shop.

When I realized I was going to have dual exhaust I paused for a moment for 3 reasons,
I don't want it to look any different than stock
I don't want to cut my rear bumber
and I'm not even sure dual will fit under there
two mufflers? it seems ike the one barely fits. I figure the passenger side tip could be lower and more under the car so you don't see it at all. If all else fails I will do side exhaust, maybe full length skirt pipes.

BTW, This: http://www.carpictures.com/vehicle/03HMH361753062/Chevrolet-Cavalier-Z24-black-red-decals-1996#




My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Wednesday, May 21, 2014 7:50 PM
http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/pics/1/1/11109_2003~Chevrolet~Cavalier_3_1000.jpg

this is a great bottom pic. it shows almost the same amount of space in the x and z dimensions on the passenger side of the spare well, I don't remember if the y axis is the same clearance as the driver side. I want one of those hitches BTW, but I will probably get mine welded to the frame if I ever get/make a trailer.


My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Thursday, May 22, 2014 6:39 PM
should I spoil my car? http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/pts/4476273645.html


My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Thursday, May 22, 2014 7:16 PM
or this: http://hartford.craigslist.org/pts/4425943273.html

im thinking this


My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Friday, May 23, 2014 6:06 AM
skoronesa wrote:

BTW, This: http://www.carpictures.com/vehicle/03HMH361753062/Chevrolet-Cavalier-Z24-black-red-decals-1996#
That's CUBE's car from way back! I always loved that car.






Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Friday, May 23, 2014 6:32 AM

I'm cleaning out my garage!
Billet upper mount for 3rd gen V6 swap!


Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Friday, May 23, 2014 6:29 AM
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Friday, May 23, 2014 6:39 AM
skoronesa wrote:

When I realized I was going to have dual exhaust I paused for a moment for 3 reasons,
I don't want it to look any different than stock
I don't want to cut my rear bumber
and I'm not even sure dual will fit under there
two mufflers? it seems ike the one barely fits. I figure the passenger side tip could be lower and more under the car so you don't see it at all. If all else fails I will do side exhaust, maybe full length skirt pipes.
Back on topic, a dual will fit. For a more stock fit and apearance, get a Camaro crossflow muffler. It should give you a good factory appearance if done properly. Last, if you have a bumper with a cutout on the drivers side for the exhaust, the only way to make it look factory would be to match that cutout on the passenger side. IMO, even if you don't, a pipe coming out completely under the bumper never looks quite factory, even when that's how the factory did it. A slight cutout with a proper fitting tail pipe looks the best to me, but that's just my taste.



I'm cleaning out my garage!
Billet upper mount for 3rd gen V6 swap!


Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Friday, May 23, 2014 1:27 PM
I meant the pass. side would be completely under and just point down. I will look up tha camaro muffler.


My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Friday, May 23, 2014 9:45 PM
I looked at the crossflow mufflers and it looks like they are meant to go from one big one to two smaller ones, I don't want this.

thinking about it, don't both headers get combined into one? couldn't I just do one big pipe?

I don't know, maybe dual exhaust would be unassuming enough, I really don't like the idea of the power in my car being visible and I'm not to keen on it looking like some pos that a dumb kid did stupid stuff too. Although, I would rather look like an idiot than have people know about the performance.

I am looking at all these forum posts all over the web on do this do that and I have come to the conclusion I will do pretty much what stock was on the gt. all mild for now unless the budget looks good and he has to make a custom manifold to fit. if he has to do a custom one I will probably up the pipe diameter by a half or 3 quarter inch.

I guess I should get a new fuel pump too or at least swap it out with the one from the gt. the complete sender unit in the cav got replaced about 7k ago so if it can pump what the 3.8 needs I wont bother.








My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Friday, May 30, 2014 1:29 PM
Mechanic has the gt in the bay and has started work on dropping the engine/tranny/cradle


My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."

Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Tuesday, June 10, 2014 6:08 PM
stopped by again today, he said he is going to drop the gt innards tomorrow morning and will get the cav in that afternoon. told me by the end of next week he should have it almost ready to fire.

I take all of this with several grains of salt as he is known for being good but slow as all get out. if the engine roars in the next 21 days i will be happy.

I got second gen tails btw, I like them better than the third gen. though if i can get some envoy back up lights for in the bumper I will put the third gens back in.
if I get the envoy reverse lights i could also tint the regular reverse lights orange and wire them up for blinkers.
I would like a sunfire rear bumper if any one around ct has one.

a buddy of mine got me 4 wheels with practically brand new winter tires from a 96 grand am 205/65/r15. the steel rims are mint, youd think they were only a year old. traded him 35$ and a thinkpad i got from the dump for them. on top of those my father is giving me 4 all seasons from his car, 225/70/r16. the gt has 4 mags with summers, 225/70/r16.

I was looking up lumina springs and some sites listed them as fitting grand prixs as well. so perhaps the gt springs will fit the cav, at least in the front. the mechanic is going to try. if i can get the springs to fit the 205's shouldn't rub at all and will be my front wheels, the 225's will go in the back. i am going to remove my sub at first so i dont have to worry about the rear ride height.

If there is room up front to keep a battery there i will take out one of the two in the trunk to make room for the gt donut and a 205 spare. eventually i will drop the wheel pan enough for a full 205 spare and bolt the 225 donut to the trunk lid.

I also want to make a tail gate. I was recently reminded of flux core mig wire so i want to get a feeder and try that over the stick. If i just mount a spare on it i can get away with using the 1.75" antenna tube i have. eventually i would brace it more to hold a jerry can or two. I was thinking of pumping the great stuff foam in the tubing to make it a little less dent prone.


My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Friday, June 20, 2014 5:38 PM
the engine, fresh out of the bay. he was jacking it up right as i got there. took a couple bolts out and up on the lift the frame went while the engine stayed down. I am so stoked. he said the springs will swap to my cav but not the front struts. he suggested monroe self adjusting struts as a cheap but heavier duty alternative. now hes going to weld up a new cradle out of tube steel using this as a template for the holes.
Attachments
IMAG0277.jpg (1392k)


My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Friday, June 20, 2014 5:48 PM
the empty gt frame. quite a dent on the lower rad bar, he said its flimsy steel and he could just bend it back. granted that won't be done, this soon to be well picked carcass is going away. I'm taking out the seats, fuse blocks, shifter knob, just about anything i can. I hope the steering wheel can swap, it has buttons. at the very least I have some charges to play with .
Attachments
IMAG0278.jpg (1199k)


My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
Re: grand prix gt 3800 auto in a 4spd auto 2.2 02 cav
Friday, June 20, 2014 6:43 PM
oh btw, I put in the 2nd gen tail lights wednesday, here are two pics. a one and one comparison(excuse the sun), and both swapped.
Attachments
taillightboth.jpeg (382k)
taillightone.jpeg (351k)


My sig- "Doing what needs to be done, although satisfactory, is a far cry from what can be done."
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