Nitrous thru GM supercharger - Page 2 - Nitrous Oxide Forum

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Re: Nitrous thru GM supercharger
Saturday, August 26, 2006 1:34 PM
Well, I asked several GTP owners about running a wet shot before the supercharger and they all told me the same thing. First, they have no clue about what you guys over here say about the fuel eating the teflon. Most of them think that was the silliest thing they've heard. But they also highly reccomend not doing it. The reason being that (at least with the SC 3.8 found in GTP's) they have fuel puddling issues when running a wet shot throught the charger. Now, granted, most of the guys who experienced puddling problems were trying to run huge shots without a controller or RPM window switch. But it's still something to ponder before slapping a wet kit on your SC'ed J. The best bet would be to run small enough of a shot that you can do a dry kit, and anything big enough to require a wet kit should be accompanied by at least an RPM window switch to avoid spraying at lower RPMs.

Just some food for thought there guys.

Re: Nitrous thru GM supercharger
Sunday, January 29, 2012 11:36 AM
I talked to a superchagerger engineer from Eaton and he did tell me that it would eat the coating off the charger blades.........



Re: Nitrous thru GM supercharger
Sunday, January 29, 2012 12:12 PM
jason norwood wrote:

I talked to a superchagerger engineer from Eaton and he did tell me that it would eat the coating off the charger blades.........


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NOS-16210NOS/
http://www.andysautosport.com/chevrolet/1967_1969_camaro/performance/nitrous_oxide/nitrous_accessories/edelbrock/edel00125427.html
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/mmfp_0912_ny_trex_triple_threat_nitrous_oxide_injection_system/photo_02.html
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FCC0620/Application/?prefilter=1


Nitrous Oxide
Nitrous Oxide, N2O, is a colorless, oxidizing, liquefied, high-pressure gas shipped at its vapor pressure of 745 psig (5,140 kg/cm2) at 70F (21C).

Applications
Oxygen source for Chemical Vapor Deposition (CVD) of silicon dioxide, SiO2.

Materials Compatibility
Metals: Stainless Steel; Carbon Steel; Zinc; Monel
Plastics: PTFE Polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon), FEP, and PFA Fluoropolymers resins; Tefzel; PVDF
Elastomers: Viton

Molecular Weight
44.01

Specific Gravity (Air=1)
1.53

MSDS Reference

Odor
Sweet

CAS Registry No
10024-97-2

Oh, and PTFE also resistant to alcohol up to 100*C, which is about 212*F

so.... really?




Re: Nitrous thru GM supercharger
Sunday, January 29, 2012 12:23 PM
http://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/Encyclopedia.asp?GasID=55

Yes, an actual MSDS

Quote:


Gas Properties

Molecular Weight
Molecular weight : 44.013 g/mol

Solid phase
Melting point : -91 C
Latent heat of fusion (1,013 bar, at triple point) : 148.53 kJ/kg

Liquid phase
Liquid density (1.013 bar at boiling point) : 1222.8 kg/m3
Liquid/gas equivalent (1.013 bar and 15 C (59 F)) : 662 vol/vol
Boiling point (1.013 bar) : -88.5 C
Latent heat of vaporization (1.013 bar at boiling point) : 376.14 kJ/kg
Vapor pressure (at 20 C or 68 F) : 58.5 bar
Critical pointCritical temperature : 36.4 C
Critical pressure : 72.45 bar

Gaseous phase
Gas density (1.013 bar at boiling point) : 3.16 kg/m3
Gas density (1.013 bar and 15 C (59 F)) : 1.872 kg/m3
Compressibility Factor (Z) (1.013 bar and 15 C (59 F)) : 0.9939
Specific gravity (air = 1) (1.013 bar and 21 C (70 F)) : 1.53
Specific volume (1.013 bar and 21 C (70 F)) : 0.543 m3/kg
Heat capacity at constant pressure (Cp) (1.013 bar and 15 C (59 F)) : 0.038 kJ/(mol.K)
Heat capacity at constant volume (Cv) (1.013 bar and 15 C (59 F)) : 0.029 kJ/(mol.K)
Ratio of specific heats (Gamma:Cp/Cv) (1.013 bar and 15 C (59 F)) : 1.302256
Viscosity (1.013 bar and 0 C (32 F)) : 0.000136 Poise
Thermal conductivity (1.013 bar and 0 C (32 F)) : 14.57 mW/(m.K)

Miscellaneous
Solubility in water (1.013 bar and 5 C (41 F)) : 1.14 vol/vol
Chemistry fun fact of the day - soluble in water due to Hydrogen bonding!

Material compatibility
Air Liquide has assembled data on the compatibility of gases with materials to assist you in evaluating which products to use for a gas system. Although the information has been compiled from what Air Liquide believes are reliable sources (International Standards: Compatibility of cylinder and valve materials with gas content; Part 1: ISO 11114-1 (Jul 1998), Part 2: ISO 11114-2 (Mar 2001)), it must be used with extreme caution. No raw data such as this can cover all conditions of concentration, temperature, humidity, impurities and aeration. It is therefore recommended that this table is used to choose possible materials and then more extensive investigation and testing is carried out under the specific conditions of use. The collected data mainly concern high pressure applications at ambiant temperature and the safety aspect of material compatibity rather than the quality aspect.


Metals
General Behavior : Equipment must be thoroughly degreased before use.
Risk of violent reaction particularly with the valves.

AluminiumSatisfactory
Brass-Satisfactory but corrosive in presence of moisture.
Copper-Satisfactory but corrosive in presence of moisture.
Ferritic Steels (e.g. Carbon steels)-Satisfactory but corrosive in presence of moisture.
Stainless Steel-Satisfactory

Plastics
Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE)-Satisfactory
Polychlorotrifluoroethylene (PCTFE)-Satisfactory
Vinylidene polyfluoride (PVDF) (KYNAR)-Acceptable but possible ignition under certain conditions
Polyamide (PA) (NYLON)-Acceptable but possible ignition under certain conditions
Polypropylene (PP)-Acceptable but possible ignition under certain conditionsElastomers
Buthyl (isobutene - isoprene) rubber (IIR)-Non recommended, possible ignition and significant swelling.
Nitrile rubber (NBR)-Non recommended, possible ignition and significant swelling.
Chloroprene (CR)-Non recommended, possible ignition and significant swelling.
Chlorofluorocarbons (FKM) (VITON)-Non recommended, significant swelling.
Silicon (Q)-Satisfactory
Ethylene - Propylene (EPDM)-Non recommended, possible ignition and significant swelling.

Lubricants
Hydrocarbon based lubricant-Non recommended, possible ignition.
Fluorocarbon based lubricant-Satisfactory






Re: Nitrous thru GM supercharger
Sunday, January 29, 2012 3:14 PM
Wow thread revival. Anyone here tried a wet shot in the past 6 years?
Re: Nitrous thru GM supercharger
Sunday, March 10, 2013 6:09 AM
1. I would say n2o after the blower. The reason for this is because of what is called "latent heat of vaporization". As your n2o goes from highly compressed liquid to a gas, the pressure drop dramatically decreases temperature, reducing your intake charge temps as well. Lower charge temps mean less chance of pre-ignition, which means you can run more advance, boost, compression, etc. It also simplifies your install since its just putting a nozzle in a hose, instead of disassembling your blower.

2. Eaton blowers are a screw-type supercharger. The famous Weiand Roots-type blower is exactly that, it creates boost by crudely pumping air at the engine at such a volume that positive pressure is made. Screw and centrifugal (including turbosuperchargers) blowers actually compress the air inside the blower themselves, and have higher adiabatic efficiency, in other words, they don't heat the air up as much as a Roots-type blower, but don't look as cool as a monstrous iron lung and dual carbs erupting out of the hood.
Re: Nitrous thru GM supercharger
Sunday, June 02, 2013 6:47 PM
Wow this thread is old but I have a question on page one they were talking about the FPR and running a wide band o2 and made it sound like if you ran a small dry shot let's say a 50 that the wide band would catch on and the FPR would self adjust and compansate for the slight lean condition caused by the dry shot? Or am I totally misunderstanding what was said?

I Love My J ♡
Re: Nitrous thru GM supercharger
Sunday, June 02, 2013 6:50 PM
No, the wideband reads your AFR and the fpr keeps pressure constant. You would need a tune ...
Re: Nitrous thru GM supercharger
Sunday, June 02, 2013 7:35 PM
ryan arbuckle wrote:

1. I would say n2o after the blower. The reason for this is because of what is called "latent heat of vaporization". As your n2o goes from highly compressed liquid to a gas, the pressure drop dramatically decreases temperature, reducing your intake charge temps as well. Lower charge temps mean less chance of pre-ignition, which means you can run more advance, boost, compression, etc. It also simplifies your install since its just putting a nozzle in a hose, instead of disassembling your blower.

2. Eaton blowers are a screw-type supercharger. The famous Weiand Roots-type blower is exactly that, it creates boost by crudely pumping air at the engine at such a volume that positive pressure is made. Screw and centrifugal (including turbosuperchargers) blowers actually compress the air inside the blower themselves, and have higher adiabatic efficiency, in other words, they don't heat the air up as much as a Roots-type blower, but don't look as cool as a monstrous iron lung and dual carbs erupting out of the hood.


sorry but this is incorrect. eaton blowers such as ours are roots type and heat up quite a bit, actually. especially the 2.4 LD9 eaton m45 supercharger as it has no heat exchanger or intercooler ability whatsoever. meth/water injection is it. our eaton m45 supercharger is just an air pump, it moves air faster than what the engine can take in creating boost. but it does not actually "compress" the air.

we do not have a "wideband" we have a narrowband... oxygen sensor. it can only read the oxygen content of the exhaust and sends signals to the pcm as such. it does this in what is called "lambda". the o2 sensor does not know exact air fuel ratio, it only knows if the exhaust is rich, lean, or stoich. so, i would think it might be able to bump up the fuel pressure if it actually worked at wide open throttle, but it doesnt. the PCM goes into a mode called (its either closed loop or open loop i cant ever seem to remember which is which) and only operates with the fixed perameters inside the coding. the o2 sensor basically shuts off if you will at wide open throttle so no it would not tell the pcm to add fuel for a lean condition if you sprayed nitrous at WOT. the only way to do it properly is to either use a wet kit or have the PCM tuned for the nitrous.



M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!
Re: Nitrous thru GM supercharger
Wednesday, June 12, 2013 6:49 PM
ryan arbuckle wrote:

1. I would say n2o after the blower. The reason for this is because of what is called "latent heat of vaporization". As your n2o goes from highly compressed liquid to a gas, the pressure drop dramatically decreases temperature, reducing your intake charge temps as well. Lower charge temps mean less chance of pre-ignition, which means you can run more advance, boost, compression, etc. It also simplifies your install since its just putting a nozzle in a hose, instead of disassembling your blower.


What does the Latent Heat of Vaporization have to do with a pressure drop?

The Latent Heat of Vaporization applies when your changing the state of matter, ie liquid NO to gaseous NO. The energy to change the states is taken from the air in the intake charge. That is what drops the temperature in the intake.

The cooling from the pressure change would actually occur in the NO bottle itself. Its similar to using a can of air duster and the can getting cold and frosty.







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