Anton Miller (PPC) wrote:im glad that none of you understand this... we measure in aa PRESSURE thats converted to a decible. not an actual decible, if you take an hand held db reader it will barely pick up the noise coming from a subwoofer, trust me ive tried it... then i broke down and bought a term lab. you guys just dont understand... again, its a FEEL not a HEAR....

LOL and what is an actual decibel to you? the only reason why hand held reader won't pick up bass is because it's mic is not designed for it, that's all (although some more expensive ones do) and you compare human ear to a sound metering device? how stupid are you?
if what low notes are MORE damaging at such high volumes as 150 db because they carry a lot more energy.
the only exception where you might get away with loud bass is at subsonic frequencies, but i think even that is not 100% confirmed.

Oedwards wrote:Can you guys stop arguing with him.... You sound like a baby when you say you can't sit in 140 db.... I had a few people jump out of this truck because they couldn't breath... I'll admit it made my ears itch..

Said truck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4I7SsL2pM skip to 1 minute, and all the rattling is actually the rear window loose, and the welds on the hatch broken.

Keep up the work, btw. I'm thinking about a system in my ride some day soon.

i dont think anyone here said u couldnt sit in it. what we said is that you are damaging your ears. two completly diffrent things.




and again anton i posted up a bunch of links. post up your info. or just sit there and say we dont understand. id tend to side with audiologists who study your ears versus a guy on the internet telling me its a feeling not a hearing. \

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography

ok, i did about 2-3 hours of research on this, if you did your own you would see that the scale ot which those where OSHA guidlines where made from are on a different scale then those on SPL scales. there are numorous links (if you google it) of people talking about how when you damage your ears with sounds it only effects the range your listening to, example, low bass freq qill effect low bass freq and high freq will effect high freq. there are multiple parts of the ear that hear different things, there for im hurting my ears per say, but only the part of the ear that picks up the "low" freq, not the ones that allow you to hear what people say and other normal pitched sounds. before coming in here, research the opposing side and see the difference your self. i dont like explaining myself as it usually makes even more argument. but go ahead and do your own research and pull even more info out of context to come at us "bass heads"

and as far as you guys go i oculd care less WTF you think about what i do. im the most respectfull bass head out there. i WILL NOT play my music in any residential area. i only go to the deep woods or industrial zones to test. i simple do not anoy people other then my competition with my "noise" plus i allready explained i only use a portion of what this stereo is capable of on a dialy bassis cause i simple dont need/want 150+db all the time. no need for it.. 140 is plenty for me on a daily. and i usually only listen to talk radio in my car anyways... yea might sound stupid, but in all honestly i like a nice quiet ride, i just love the competition side of this and its really fun. maybe if you guys applied yourself in this hobby enough you would love the challenges as well.

kind of like you sndsgood i sure could bash you for making a sunfire into a show car like you did, but i dont i appreciate it even if it isnt for me, even if your car is rediculously over done. and done basically for show only... same here... but you dont see that do you... you look at my hobby as an annoyance, or a harm to people... its no more harmfull then driving on the road. sur ei might lose a little hearing on the low end, but ya know what, i had fun doing it... like your car, you might have lost a @!#$ ton of money for no real reason, but it was fun right?

so heres a thing from me to all of you on this forum. @!#$ YOU. THIS IS MY CAR AND MY LIFE. if you dont like it FINE! but dont come in here with things you dont know about...




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Anton Miller (PPC) wrote:ok, i did about 2-3 hours of research on this, if you did your own you would see that the scale ot which those where OSHA guidlines where made from are on a different scale then those on SPL scales. there are numorous links (if you google it) of people talking about how when you damage your ears with sounds it only effects the range your listening to, example, low bass freq qill effect low bass freq and high freq will effect high freq. there are multiple parts of the ear that hear different things, there for im hurting my ears per say, but only the part of the ear that picks up the "low" freq, not the ones that allow you to hear what people say and other normal pitched sounds. before coming in here, research the opposing side and see the difference your self. i dont like explaining myself as it usually makes even more argument. but go ahead and do your own research and pull even more info out of context to come at us "bass heads"


um did you bother to even read what i wrote. i basiclly said the exact same thing you just said about three posts ago. i said specifically that your damage the low end frequency that you are hearing and thats why you would have no issue hearing someone talking across the room because they wouldnt be in the frequencies you lost. so there was not information out of context at all. it took you 2-3 hours of research to say the same thing i did basically. great job




and as far as you guys go i oculd care less WTF you think about what i do. im the most respectfull bass head out there. i WILL NOT play my music in any residential area. i only go to the deep woods or industrial zones to test. i simple do not anoy people other then my competition with my "noise" plus i allready explained i only use a portion of what this stereo is capable of on a dialy bassis cause i simple dont need/want 150+db all the time. no need for it.. 140 is plenty for me on a daily. and i usually only listen to talk radio in my car anyways... yea might sound stupid, but in all honestly i like a nice quiet ride, i just love the competition side of this and its really fun. maybe if you guys applied yourself in this hobby enough you would love the challenges as well.

i never said anything about you bothering other people or that your disrespectful to other drivers or any of that mess. i was just pointing out if your listening at that level your damaging your ears. then you came back saying its not doing damage that its the highs that do damage. now 20 posts later you admit your doing damage to the low end freuqncies range of your hearing. so agin you just basically admitted to the entire point of my post. that you are damaging your ears. you said it yourself. as for applying myself to the hobby? i won enough sound quality events to get invited to the world finals in U.S,A.C. in kansas city when i competed. was one of the funnest trips ive went on. ive also judged for Steve Sten with M.E.C.A as a sound quality judge as well as judging S.P.L. all this before you were even out of diapers probalby. so i have been there done that.


kind of like you sndsgood i sure could bash you for making a sunfire into a show car like you did, but i dont i appreciate it even if it isnt for me, even if your car is rediculously over done. and done basically for show only... same here... but you dont see that do you... you look at my hobby as an annoyance, or a harm to people... its no more harmfull then driving on the road. sur ei might lose a little hearing on the low end, but ya know what, i had fun doing it... like your car, you might have lost a @!#$ ton of money for no real reason, but it was fun right?


again i dont have anything against the sport. ive been involved with it. my whole point was for you to protect your ears because if you love the sport so much you want to be able to hear and do it when your out of your teenage years. dont take someone trying to get you to protect your ears from irrevocable damage as me saying i hate what you do. thats just the image your putting in your own head because you dont like what i had to say.

so heres a thing from me to all of you on this forum. @!#$ YOU. THIS IS MY CAR AND MY LIFE. if you dont like it FINE! but dont come in here with things you dont know about...

so in a breakdown of this post. i told you your damaging your ears. ... you said you werent.... i posted up facts that low frequencies do damage your hearing.... you come back saying you are doing damage to the low end frequnices of your hearing (same thing i said) ... you try and say i took things out of context. then you claim i dont like the sport or hobby....you were wrong about that too so as far as me not coming in here and posting things i dont know about? id say i was complelty right and after your 2-3 hours of research you admitted you were doign damage to your ears. so try not to get so pissy just because you were wrong.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography

most of what i stated in that post was from previous encounters with you and the rest of the j-body goons....

also most of what i stated was aimed toward mr know it all might as well call him mr google cause i guess he can get real world experience from google....

if you continue to research it will say normal people dont have very good low freq hearing in the first place. so there for me going to a doctor for testing how well my hearing is is pointless... i can hear just fine, you guys can think i cant, but i can... i dont sit in 150 db all day, or even for more then 2 minutes at a time.... i just might @!#$ go to a doctor just to proove you all wrong. but again, unless your in my shoes you wont undersadn why not to wear hearing protection in these cars or situations... (mostly due to needing to hear the mechanical limits of subwoofers and other sounds in the sound system to be sure you dont damage anything)

but i will go back to my hibernationa nd let this palce turn into the toilet it is with people liek you guys helping others become more "sound quality" AKA quiet people....



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Not everyone competes anton, and by saying "let you guys turn everyone to sound quality aka quiet people" you are doing exactly what u accused jason of doing: sitting on one side of the fence trash talking the other side just because its not what you're into. Unlike you, jason never actually bashed you or your hobby of choice, yet you retaliate by saying people who are into sound quality or "quiet" people is a bad thing.... You've now contradcted yourself more than once in these arguments. We all just need to get along... Except andrey, he needs to just shut the @!#$ up.

(tabs) wrote:

z yaaaa wrote:its not much fun trying to argue with a wall.

oh, trust us, we know

Anton Miller (PPC) wrote:most of what i stated in that post was from previous encounters with you and the rest of the j-body goons....

also most of what i stated was aimed toward mr know it all might as well call him mr google cause i guess he can get real world experience from google....

if you continue to research it will say normal people dont have very good low freq hearing in the first place. so there for me going to a doctor for testing how well my hearing is is pointless... i can hear just fine, you guys can think i cant, but i can... i dont sit in 150 db all day, or even for more then 2 minutes at a time.... i just might @!#$ go to a doctor just to proove you all wrong. but again, unless your in my shoes you wont undersadn why not to wear hearing protection in these cars or situations... (mostly due to needing to hear the mechanical limits of subwoofers and other sounds in the sound system to be sure you dont damage anything)

but i will go back to my hibernationa nd let this palce turn into the toilet it is with people liek you guys helping others become more "sound quality" AKA quiet people....

ahhh were goons now. i basically proved you wrong and in responce to being corrected im now a goon. gotcha. now i see how yoru mind works.

and then you go on to say because most people can't hear very good in the low frequency range its okay to destroy what small bit of hearing you do have in that range. kinda just seems stupid for someone who is a bass head to say its not a big deal to damage the one thing he can hear bass with. kinda like saying a fat guy is cool with cutting his tounge off. that loosing taste won't be that big and issue. i mean im sorry you get so butt hurt about being wrong. but maybe next time research before you open your mouth and it wont happen. and sorry but you not posting in the audio forum won't do anything to this forum really.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography

Anton, go stare at an ultraviolet light source for a while.
You can't see it, so it won't affect your vision.

jl, as always - you need to shut the f)$%* up cause you're useless with your forum criticism ..
anton - seriously go audiologist and tell him all that b.s you posted here - he'll laugh at you, i guarantee it.
you feel bass but not hear it? where did you come up with that? if it's 20 hz and up you do HEAR it and mess up your hearing at high volumes
why is it so hard to get?

i wonder if it's possible to cause hearing damage at subsonic frequencies though...
i've listened to LOW bass many times before, like 10-15 hz notes, and even though your ears can't pick it up, you can still sense the air movement and the pressure...

Andrey B wrote:i wonder if it's possible to cause hearing damage at subsonic frequencies though...

It is.

The reason that low bass and sub bass can damage your ears is because, well, I'll try to do it in point form.

The inner ear has a series of millions of hairs in a liquid chamber. Each hair is literally tuned to a specific frequency due to each hair's unique length and thickness.
Say a hair has a resonant frequency of 2kHz (which is right in the vocal spectrum). That hair is also excited by frequencies of 2kHz and also all preceding octaves. So 1kHz will vibrate the hair, so will 500Hz, 250Hz, 125 Hz, 62.5Hz, 31.25Hz and 10.625Hz But since the full wavelength of a lower octave sound doesn't fully propagate through a medium of higher frequency, the brain doesn't perceive it.

The problem with bass is that it requires a great amount of energy to be audible in the first place.
Anton's point about how the ear doesn't perceive lower frequencies as well is true. Look into psychoacoustics and human hearing sensitivity and you will find this lovely graph. We all sort of know this.

(Keep in mind this is logarithmic, so the graph is sort of upside down. But not technically.)

Getting back to the problem with bass.
The lower you go in frequencies, the more hairs in the inner ear are affected.
Think about it.
Play a 200Hz tone and you affect the hairs responsible for hearing 400, 800, 1.6k, etc with the same amount of energy that was put into the 200Hz sound. This is less of a problem, because with only a little bit of energy, we perceive 200Hz to be loud enough to be unpleasant and will seek a way to avoid it.
Play a 20Hz tone, you affect the hairs responsible for 40, 80, 160, 320, 640, 1.28k, 2.56k, 5.12k, etc. Since it took so much energy to make the 20Hz tone audible in the first place, those other hairs are receiving a ridiculous amount of energy and since the hairs are subject to friction and strain they will eventually become 'soft' and lost their resonance.

To clarify what I mean: If you strike a steel tube against something it will ring at it's resonant frequency.
Bend that tube, and it won't.
If the hairs don't resonate, the brain doesn't register that there was a sound, and you are deaf for that frequency.

The actual mechanical parts of the ear (hammer and anvil) aren't actually affected by sound as easily as the inner ear because they a quite a bit tougher than the aforementioned hairs. The only times they fail to work is when they are a) un-lubricated because of some chemical imbalance in the body, or b) broken by a massive shock like and explosion.

Andrey B wrote:my record so far was 146 @ 35 and i couldn't stand being in the car for more than 5 seconds

sndsgood wrote:i dont think anyone here said u couldnt sit in it. what we said is that you are damaging your ears. two completly diffrent things.

- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs

Oedwards wrote:

Andrey B wrote:my record so far was 146 @ 35 and i couldn't stand being in the car for more than 5 seconds

sndsgood wrote:i dont think anyone here said u couldnt sit in it. what we said is that you are damaging your ears. two completly diffrent things.

what's your point? you do know who it was addressed to right?

Do you?


- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs

lol

Oedwards wrote:Do you?

are you jewish?

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