A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers. - Page 4 - Boost Forum

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Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Thursday, June 08, 2006 9:04 PM
The only reason you got 200 hits was cuz someone posted a link on here. We've been known to break down websites because of bandwidth.





Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Friday, June 09, 2006 1:21 AM
street freakz wrote:

you can find a q&a with cargodz about the e-turbo at cargodz site. there are alot of questions answered there. you can read that or get nothing. and i will not sit and debate the laws of physics or any other bs science crap with any of you here. it's an overated waste of time, like this forum has become. we showed dyno proof, we have respectfull names and companies backing this item up, we offered a unit and the g-tec with it already, and we still get that these are bildge pumps because there centifiqual shaped with a fan, ummm, a turbo is defined as a form of supercharger, cetrifiqual with a what? fan in it, a compressor fan or a blower fan is still a fan.hhhhmmmm. as i said before this forum is a bit of wasted time, but not all is lost, there were over 200 hits to the e-turbo today alone for only one vehicle. the cavalier. i also believe that alot of people will agree that dyno's are fact sheets, or nobody would use them. there is a saying that i like alot that holds alot of truth to it. QUOTE; if the theory doesn't match the facts, then the theory must change because the facts will always remain. END QUOTE. dyno's are facts nomatter what you may think. but i believe that i've had enough of this. thanks, and good luck with all of your debates.
Yeah, it's a damn shame when pesky things like physics get in the way of perfectly good scams. So sorry for your luck that you stumbled on a forum chock full of people smart enough to realize that.

You guys had your chance. You ignored warnings, you ignored requests for documentation for your "business" and you continued to try to convince us that your bilge pump kit was somehow the end-all be-all of performance parts even given overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You can't answer the simplest questions about the operation of the kit and it's interaction with the motor...or something simple like "why will it work with an 04 Ecotec but not an 05?". The OWNER of this site even said he'd give you FREE ADVERTISING if you'd send him a kit and he could prove that it actually did something. I guess that's too much of a risk to take though...imagine how many people HE would be able to tell about your scam!

Toolbags like you are what gives the entire aftermarket a bad name. You latch on to a flawed concept and promote it as fact, and when presented with facts and questions you try to say the people asking are "haters".

So yeah...it's been fun, but your run on this site has thankfully come to a close. Go scam someone else.







09:f9:11:02:9d:74:e3:5b:d8:41:56:c5:63

Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Friday, June 09, 2006 7:53 AM
Haha....Jimmy you're the man.




Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Friday, June 09, 2006 8:18 AM
Dammit, Joe! We weren't done with him yet!

street freakz wrote:

you can find a q&a with cargodz about the e-turbo at cargodz site. there are alot of questions answered there. you can read that or get nothing. and i will not sit and debate the laws of physics or any other bs science crap with any of you here. it's an overated waste of time, like this forum has become. we showed dyno proof, we have respectfull names and companies backing this item up, we offered a unit and the g-tec with it already, and we still get that these are bildge pumps because there centifiqual shaped with a fan, ummm, a turbo is defined as a form of supercharger, cetrifiqual with a what? fan in it, a compressor fan or a blower fan is still a fan.hhhhmmmm. as i said before this forum is a bit of wasted time, but not all is lost, there were over 200 hits to the e-turbo today alone for only one vehicle. the cavalier. i also believe that alot of people will agree that dyno's are fact sheets, or nobody would use them. there is a saying that i like alot that holds alot of truth to it. QUOTE; if the theory doesn't match the facts, then the theory must change because the facts will always remain. END QUOTE. dyno's are facts nomatter what you may think. but i believe that i've had enough of this. thanks, and good luck with all of your debates.


Just for anyone reading this and thinking "Hmm... he's got some points here..." I'll respond to this and clarify his points.

First off, you can't use a site that's selling the crap as a reference. Anything there will be geared towards selling you their crap and since they control the site, they control the spin they post there. So I won't even go there to see what's said.

Now then... about that science mumbo jumbo... that response just shows that they can't back their claims with anything resembling an actual fact.

He says they showed dyno proof. I asked in my last post how it was they could possibly get those gains and they didn't respond. With that in mind, I'm telling everyone here that the dyno is FRAUDULENT and does NOT indicate gains from this bilge blower kit. It is flat out IMPOSSIBLE.

There IS a difference between a fan and a compressor when talking about boost and the fact that this guy doesn't know that (actually, I believe he knows it but is avoiding the topic because it doesn't support his scam) shows that he knows nothing about boost and is just trying to make money perpetrating a scam.

Dyno sheets are only fact sheets when they're legit. His are not. They are completely fabricated.

So finally.. MY ADVICE TO ALL READERS, MEMBERS OR OTHERWISE, is that you do NOT buy one of these or any of the countless other electric blower schemes on the market because they are a WASTE OF MONEY and DO NOT WORK.

Don't be scammed! Take the advice of all the established tuners on this site and countless others.

Now then... after all that... if you still consider buying one... PLEASE JUST SEND ME YOUR MONEY and I'll send you a reasonable hand-drawn facsimile of one of these kits that will be just as effective.

Basically... if you buy one you're a complete idiot. Don't be a complete idiot!







Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Friday, June 09, 2006 8:30 AM
Hell a leafblower hooked into the intake manifold would probilly work better and i've seen it on a dyno tape before. guys at a shop were messing with a s10 took a leafblower and nitrious and hooked it in for the hell of it to see what would happen im sure the vids floating around on streetfire


Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Friday, June 09, 2006 8:43 AM
WW: if i sent you a drawing of money would you send me a drawing of the drawing? I might be able to use it as sound deadening material, be a better mod than a bilge pump intake


JBO Stickers! Get yours today!
Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Friday, June 09, 2006 8:49 AM
Rich Grayo Jr. wrote:

WW: if i sent you a drawing of money would you send me a drawing of the drawing? I might be able to use it as sound deadening material, be a better mod than a bilge pump intake

I shouldn't of been drinking Mt Dew and reading that. My keyboard hates you now.







Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Friday, June 09, 2006 10:30 AM
Ok... this was actually too good to pass up. I went and looked at their FAQ and it's just rife with complete bull@!#$.

So here we go... the JBO version of their FAQ. I'll give the question, their answer, and the truth.

Question: Why don't they work with my vehicle?

Answer: The computers map sensor will not adapt to the increased cfm flows that the E-turbo pushes out.

The Truth: Someone actually did tests on those cars and proved our product is garbage. When people test other cars, they too will be added to the list of cars not supported. MAP sensors read pressure, not CFM so our explanation doesn't actually make any sense.

Question: Why not call it the electric supercharger instead of the electric turbo?

Answer: The turbocharger is defined as a centrifugal blower, not the supercharger, and we use the centrifugal shape.

The Truth: The shape has nothing to do with the name. There are centrifugal superchargers, most famously from Vortech. The turbo is actually defined by the fact that the engine's exhaust gases provide the power to turn the compressor. A supercharger is traditionally belt-driven but other variants of compressors not driven by the exhaust are also referred to as superchargers. They're actually calling it a turbo because they think it sounds cooler and will scam more people into buying them.

Question: What is the difference between your electric turbo and the bildge pumps?

Answer: This is rather simple to answer, in order make a difference in the motors hp range, you must be able to give the motor a higher volume of air than it can normally take in (cfm), this is why a ram-air system will not function correctly unless your doing speeds of 155+ mph. the largest (bildge pump) or ventilation fan pushes 250 cfm, so after around 2500rpm's your now creating a (restriction) in your motors air flow. Our electric turbo pushes 803 cfm per unit, this lasts through the entire rpm range of your vehicle. Why? Because it pushes more cfm (volume of air) than the motor naturally draws in.(even at max rpm) but remember, even though it pushes more cfm than it takes in, a V8 will require 2 units to make a respectable difference.

The Truth: There is no difference. You can get bilge blowers that flow over 1000 CFM. CFM stands for "cubic feet per minute" and refers to the volume of air that the fan is capable of flowing through it in an unrestricted environment. This rating has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the capabilities of the blower in a restricted environment such as an engine. In this situation, the blower has to be able to push the air such that pressure is build (PSI) and these fans are not capable of such. Don't let their marketing spin confuse you. When it comes to boosting an engine, it's PSI that is important. Increased CFM for the engine is a byproduct of having an unrestricted intake and exhaust. It is not something you're looking for in a boost solution.

Question: What makes your units defy the laws of physics, claimed by others?

Answer: They do not defy the laws of physics because if the theory doesn't match the facts then the theory must change, because the facts will always remain. Our facts are the dyno sheets.

The Truth: They don't know anything about physics or theory when it comes to engines. They forged up some dyno sheets though to make it look like their product works so you'll buy it. They don't know that it would take over 10 psi of boost pressure with associated fuel mods to accomodate it to give a 60% increase in power to the 1995 Cavalier they tested. They only know what they made the chart say it does. Suggesting that basic engine theory and perhaps physics itself should be changed to support their forged dyno sheets is just plain ludicrous!

Question: If the electric turbo is so great, then why arent the bigger companies either making or using them?

Answer: Well, you must understand, that the electric turbo was never intended on replacing the higher psi turbo's or superchargers. the electric turbo was intended on being an economy turbo, with the on demand setup. but it became much bigger than that. it started getting better results on many vehicles than the base 4psi supercharger or turbo setups, even the factory option units. for example; the factory option supercharger for the 95-99 cavalier recieved a 40hp gain and costed over $2,500. then you have our electric turbo that recieved a 53.8hp gain for the same vehicles but only costed $460 for the entire kit. this is why the bigger companies don't use these or care too, it's a direct threat.

The Truth: They don't work and everyone who knows anything about engines and boost knows that. If a company could produce a solution for even $1000 that did what a $3000 system could do they wouldn't see it as a threat. They'd see it as an opportunity to make massive profits. The simple fact is that these don't work.

Question: Explain how yours differs from those axial flow units?

Answer: Well, axial flows were supposed to be designed to act like a jet engine, but they forget to add the other 5 fans like a jet engine has. There are alot of faults with the axial flow designs, the biggest being that their all using toy airplane motors and a plastic 6 bladed fan. and not to mention that the motor is mounted directly in the center of the air flow path. what do you think will happen to your motor if that axial flow motor fails? And the restriction that it causes when it's not in use. our units on the other hand do not pose any of these problems our faults mentioned, and we have what nobody else does, overheating protection. Every motor that we manufacture has an internal thermo switch imbedded in the motor, so if anything happens, it will shut itself down.

The Truth: First of all, an axial flow one is absolutely nothing at all like a jet engine no matter how many fans you add to them. These people don't know how boost works and clearly don't know how jet propulsion works either. The clear answer here is that there is no difference. Their piece of garbage is also in the intake path and if things break on it, they're still going into your engine. They chose this design because the shape looks similar to a turbo and people think turbos are cool.

Question: Why are you using a mild steel fan instead of the plastic or aluminum like the other units out there?

Answer: Our units spin at 22,000 rpm's, we don't want the fans to implode.

The Truth: This is a good time to mention that turbos spin upwards of 150,000 rpm to produce around 10 psi and do so while actually compressing air. These guys are using metal fans instead of plastic simply because that's what sort of fan comes on the ghetto bilge blower they decided to use.

Question: Why do you need to reboot the vehicles computer when adding the electric turbo?

Answer: A lot of computers simply have to be tought that the added air flows are there. Even when dealerships add the optional superchargers to their vehicles, they have to reboot or reflash the computer system. we give the buyer the instructions on how to do this, it's very simple and takes about 10 minutes to do.

The Truth: Resetting the ECU and reflashing the ECU are 100% different things. They talk about them as though the terms are interchangable. Reflashing means you're actually reprogramming the computer to change the fuel tables and other parameters. Resetting simply involves cutting power to it for a certain amount of time so it loses it's saved parameters. To suggest they are the same just shows the level of misinformation being spread by these people.

Question: Do you have any type of warranties or guarantees?

Answer: Yes to both, We have a 30 day money back guarantee, if you don't like the product return it in the original packaging, undamaged for full refund. We also guarantee a minimum 10 horsepower gain over stock with a dyno test proving under a 10 Hp gain (what we need is a copy of the dyno tests within 90 days) and we even refund the dyno test itself. Now as for the warranty, the Electric Turbo includes a warranty card that must be returned, and you get a Limited Lifetime warranty on the casings. Motor,fan, and wiring harness Limited 1 Year warranty. And a 1 time replacement for 1 year on the brushes.

The Truth: Most people won't have the time to install and test this crap within 30 days so they've got nothing to worry about. If someone actually tests it, they'll just add the car they tested it on to the list of cars it doesn't work on. Good luck actually getting compensated for the dyno time.

SO there you have it. Enjoy.




Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Friday, June 09, 2006 9:34 PM
Haha....Kevin you've got too much time on your hands sir. But it was well worth the read. I doubt he'll be back.




Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Friday, June 09, 2006 11:17 PM
@ WW



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:31 AM
He keeps e-mailing me saying that no one will test his unit.





Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Sunday, June 11, 2006 12:00 PM
Dave publicly volunteered to test it.






Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:03 PM
Red Alert wrote:

He keeps e-mailing me saying that no one will test his unit.
I value my engine too much...



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:59 PM
Remember in the Movie "little Nicky" When the Devil is shoving a Pineapple up Adolph Hitler's Butt?...... Now zip to the future, The owner of Speed Freakz Getting all those Electric Turbos returned "Special Delivery" courtesy of Ol' Lucifer! HeHe.




"Are you sure your A/F ratio is correct? That hole in your Block custom?"
Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:05 PM
notec....don't ever believe the fortune cookies. I wise man once told me short riddle. It went something a little like this: Ning nong ning nong ning nong nong, fortune cookie always wrong.

I love this site.




Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Monday, June 26, 2006 12:22 PM
lol, i just looked at this tread and then at his site, even emailed him about what specific car he got this dyno from, i want to contact the owner of the Cavy he got such great power from, no response yet.

Cavalier gained 53.6hp and 19.6lbs of torque







Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Monday, June 26, 2006 5:30 PM
Quote:

After using an absurd amount of crazy glue...


You can never use too much!



Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Monday, June 04, 2007 10:53 AM
I've been thinking about this for a while and was wondering if anyone could check i've got the numbers right.
Say you were to take a belt driven supercharger and drive it with an electric motor, you would get a result of somewhere near the best you could do with this type of setup, right?
Im sure all the top supercharging manufacturers have made them as efficient as is curently possible, being their all over racing etc.

So the question is how much would it take to push one of these superchargers, to the right speed and get enough pressure increase out of it.

I've found this,
"The most efficient type of supercharger, flowing 265 cfm and developing a boost of 11.5 psi, takes 14.5kW to drive it."
Thats more like what i would of thought it would be, so to drive a fan/motor to get that much pressure you'd need 14,500 Watts!

The motor/fan at the start of this thread is at most 12v at 6amps = 72 Watts!
Erm, from this i think you need 200 times more power!

Yes this might have a bit too much physics in it, but the claims are looking a bit out of proportion.
Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:50 AM
Sorry for reviving this old thread which is obviously collecting more enemies than supporters. It is understandable why, most (may be all but I don't have information) of these systems sold on fleabay or by ephemeral "companies" are proven scams, if it was to be proved because it's pretty obvious that they are defying the common sense and nature's laws.
What is confusing me is why people are saying "NO electrics" from the start, just because there are a lot of them not working or working but useless. Basically we are talking about an air pump and, for a free of prejudice mind, a pump is a pump, regardless what form of energy is used as long as it produces a mechanical work and serves to its purpose. Besides this I can also see a major advantage of an electric system for the very simple reason that it is not directly coupled to the engine, allowing an external command to decide when and what to do. All known and working systems are working in a closed loop - increasing the revs. more air is pumped that is increasing the revs that more....you know what I mean. You may argue that this happens in real time and it is not even noticeable, you may be right, I'm only trying to point out a question of principle.
An argument against electric would be the large volume of the motor and the power involved, just red here something about 14.5 Kw. Very true, but: (1)there are a lot of small and powerful electric motors today, obviously hard to find at people trying to sell hair driers as superchargers, and (2)how much of the working time that power is needed, assuming that we are talking about street cars and not dragsters. Just think about the 120Kw motor in a hybrid Lexus and 14.5 will not look that huge. There is rather another reason concerning me: the capability of this electric motor to accelerate fast (see the turbo lag, different system , same story), being a well known fact that a centrifugal "blower" needs high revs and not a large diameter. We need to take benefit from the square of revs and not the simple proportionality with the radius; another solvable problem, you only have to think at servomotors with extremely low inertia, add a very light rotor and you are ready to go. Axial fans are out of the question for reasons I will not try to detail here.

If you accept the above at least theoretically possible the question is: what, when and how much do we need from our hair dryer; you'll have too accept that having a machine working independently from the engine (unlike the existing systems) it will accept an external command according to our needs and not driven by the engine. Because the main problem is that all systems are restricting the air in a section of the intake to compress it in another section, excepting the situation of the full throttle (again, I'm not talking about dragsters). This is obviously generating heat and energy loss. So, if we only have either restriction or compression less energy is required for the compressor, only possible with a precise butterfly/compressor synchronisation, but this is one of the most simple things to do on this earth. This was a little about "what".
Going back to the kilowatts which are not 14.5 anymore( excepting the full throttle as mentioned) . When ? Certainly not when driving on motorways with a constant speed of 150 km per hour (less than 100 miles if you prefer, I'm european). Just when we need more torque.
Now about how much. 14.5 is still an impressive figure, but it only applies to those car tuned to squeeze as much power as possible from their engines. Let's take the average dummy (the potential customer of the hair driers which I would be if i was stupid). He (me) is buying those coloured silly toys knowing that the figures and graphs are fakes but hoping to gain at least 10 or maybe 15 HP (those who are really stupid are excepted from this). They had spend in the past much more for fancy exhausts or cold intakes (I don't give names) and with less results. And if they don't need that much as promised, let's only say 15 or 20 we can cut more from our 14.5. It is well known (I guess) that the pressure drop in a section with an air flow is proportional with the restriction of the section but also with the SQUARE flow. It means that half of the pressure means four times less power.
I don't know much about cars and engines (I like them, no question this is part of what I know) except that I am my own mechanic for a number of years, but I know and can learn more some theory. As a mining engineer I had designed a lot of air systems (no need to laugh, air flow is air flow and maths is maths), very true that on a "slightly" larger scale, I wonder if it is possible to use some modest knowledge to see some real needed values and not ebay fairytales.

Going practical: my daily drive is a Rover 75 with a 2 litre V6 engine, 150 HP. The measured pressure in the intake plenum is in the 200-400 mbar, jumping to 1000 when blipping the throtle (absolute and not relative pressure, but I don't think I had to specify). Take another comparable engine if you wish, I'm talking about what I know. Let's say a 10-12% more power with a charger (you may notice I avoid to say "super"), and why not electric, could be possible ? There are a few particularities with this engine, it has a variabile intake system with 6+1 valves in the plenum intake which are working depending on the resonant frequencies, but I think they are no more applicable if I "kill" the dynamics of the normally aspirated air flow. The mechanical supercharges (two available designs) are expensive and seems to be harmful to the engine, don't ask me why, it's a fact.
Honestly speaking, I don't know how much pressure and when. Nothing about fuel ratio, I hope that the ECU will manage fairly this job, there is an army of sensors helping it to do so.
Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:16 AM
One more thing about the hair dryers: a major condition for the efficiency of a centrifugal blower is a constant cross section to avoid compression/decompression cycles with obvious power loss which I didn't see at any of them.
And an argument in their support: it is well known that a humid air causes a power loss because the water vapours are displaciing a part of the oxygen; "hair dryers" are actually "air dryers", removing this inconvenience :-)
So if you don't drive in humid air don't try, otherwise you may expect to double the power of your engine :-)

BTW, came across this link:
http://www.gaprojects.com/supercharger/
Amateurish presentation baut at least they are talking about 1800W, not 70. Any idea about them ?
Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Thursday, May 21, 2009 7:05 AM
you really brang up a 3 year old thread to type that?

u suck hard







Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:18 AM
J03Y wrote:

you really brang up a 3 year old thread to type that?

u suck hard


No intention to open another discussion about perpetuum mobile (don't have time now to explain you what it is) or something similar, but I expected at least an articulated reply or nothing.
Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:25 AM
workaholic wrote:

Sorry for reviving this old thread which is obviously collecting more enemies than supporters. It is understandable why, most (may be all but I don't have information) of these systems sold on fleabay or by ephemeral "companies" are proven scams, if it was to be proved because it's pretty obvious that they are defying the common sense and nature's laws.
What is confusing me is why people are saying "NO electrics" from the start, just because there are a lot of them not working or working but useless. Basically we are talking about an air pump and, for a free of prejudice mind, a pump is a pump, regardless what form of energy is used as long as it produces a mechanical work and serves to its purpose. Besides this I can also see a major advantage of an electric system for the very simple reason that it is not directly coupled to the engine, allowing an external command to decide when and what to do. All known and working systems are working in a closed loop - increasing the revs. more air is pumped that is increasing the revs that more....you know what I mean. You may argue that this happens in real time and it is not even noticeable, you may be right, I'm only trying to point out a question of principle.
An argument against electric would be the large volume of the motor and the power involved, just red here something about 14.5 Kw. Very true, but: (1)there are a lot of small and powerful electric motors today, obviously hard to find at people trying to sell hair driers as superchargers, and (2)how much of the working time that power is needed, assuming that we are talking about street cars and not dragsters. Just think about the 120Kw motor in a hybrid Lexus and 14.5 will not look that huge. There is rather another reason concerning me: the capability of this electric motor to accelerate fast (see the turbo lag, different system , same story), being a well known fact that a centrifugal "blower" needs high revs and not a large diameter. We need to take benefit from the square of revs and not the simple proportionality with the radius; another solvable problem, you only have to think at servomotors with extremely low inertia, add a very light rotor and you are ready to go. Axial fans are out of the question for reasons I will not try to detail here.

If you accept the above at least theoretically possible the question is: what, when and how much do we need from our hair dryer; you'll have too accept that having a machine working independently from the engine (unlike the existing systems) it will accept an external command according to our needs and not driven by the engine. Because the main problem is that all systems are restricting the air in a section of the intake to compress it in another section, excepting the situation of the full throttle (again, I'm not talking about dragsters). This is obviously generating heat and energy loss. So, if we only have either restriction or compression less energy is required for the compressor, only possible with a precise butterfly/compressor synchronisation, but this is one of the most simple things to do on this earth. This was a little about "what".
Going back to the kilowatts which are not 14.5 anymore( excepting the full throttle as mentioned) . When ? Certainly not when driving on motorways with a constant speed of 150 km per hour (less than 100 miles if you prefer, I'm european). Just when we need more torque.
Now about how much. 14.5 is still an impressive figure, but it only applies to those car tuned to squeeze as much power as possible from their engines. Let's take the average dummy (the potential customer of the hair driers which I would be if i was stupid). He (me) is buying those coloured silly toys knowing that the figures and graphs are fakes but hoping to gain at least 10 or maybe 15 HP (those who are really stupid are excepted from this). They had spend in the past much more for fancy exhausts or cold intakes (I don't give names) and with less results. And if they don't need that much as promised, let's only say 15 or 20 we can cut more from our 14.5. It is well known (I guess) that the pressure drop in a section with an air flow is proportional with the restriction of the section but also with the SQUARE flow. It means that half of the pressure means four times less power.
I don't know much about cars and engines (I like them, no question this is part of what I know) except that I am my own mechanic for a number of years, but I know and can learn more some theory. As a mining engineer I had designed a lot of air systems (no need to laugh, air flow is air flow and maths is maths), very true that on a "slightly" larger scale, I wonder if it is possible to use some modest knowledge to see some real needed values and not ebay fairytales.

Going practical: my daily drive is a Rover 75 with a 2 litre V6 engine, 150 HP. The measured pressure in the intake plenum is in the 200-400 mbar, jumping to 1000 when blipping the throtle (absolute and not relative pressure, but I don't think I had to specify). Take another comparable engine if you wish, I'm talking about what I know. Let's say a 10-12% more power with a charger (you may notice I avoid to say "super"), and why not electric, could be possible ? There are a few particularities with this engine, it has a variabile intake system with 6+1 valves in the plenum intake which are working depending on the resonant frequencies, but I think they are no more applicable if I "kill" the dynamics of the normally aspirated air flow. The mechanical supercharges (two available designs) are expensive and seems to be harmful to the engine, don't ask me why, it's a fact.
Honestly speaking, I don't know how much pressure and when. Nothing about fuel ratio, I hope that the ECU will manage fairly this job, there is an army of sensors helping it to do so.


You are a F/CKING moron.

workaholic wrote:

air flow is air flow and maths is maths


Fluid dynamics(fluid systems and pressure drops) is NOTHING EVEN CLOSE to turbomachinery(energy transfer from a rotor to a fluid) ...don't flatter yourself...or insult me.

SQUARE FLOW - wtf?
pressure drop proportional - wtf?
servo motors have low inertia - wtf?
Mechanical superchrgers harmful to the engine - wtf?


To answer your question really simply and easily, yes, you can use an electric motor connected to AN ACTUAL COMPRESSOR AND HOUSING with say a PMW drive from an ECU or something to vary the pressure. You will need ALOT of power and if you ever saw how big of a electric motor you'd need you'd know it won't work. Go look at the a 15k Watt generator load cell and tell me if you can fit that bitch under your hood. The motor wont be much smaller than that, then lets not forget the transmission system to get the rotor to spin fast enough. The whole idea is retarded.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, May 21, 2009 10:41 AM

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:51 AM
workaholic wrote:

One more thing about the hair dryers: a major condition for the efficiency of a centrifugal blower is a constant cross section to avoid compression/decompression cycles with obvious power loss which I didn't see at any of them.
And an argument in their support: it is well known that a humid air causes a power loss because the water vapours are displaciing a part of the oxygen; "hair dryers" are actually "air dryers", removing this inconvenience :-)
So if you don't drive in humid air don't try, otherwise you may expect to double the power of your engine :-)

BTW, came across this link:
http://www.gaprojects.com/supercharger/
Amateurish presentation baut at least they are talking about 1800W, not 70. Any idea about them ?


Centrifugal blowers are anything BUT constant cross section. If it was constant it would be a fan. Have you ever seen and A/R rating on a centrifugal blower?
hair dryers are not air dryers. Air drying can only be achieved by bringing the air temperature down to the dew point and letting the condensation fall out, then heated back up. A hair dryer doesn't do this...it just heats everything up. Water vapor in, water vapor out....do you really think a simple $5 hair dryer can beat the laws of physics applied to the isobaric process? Why do you think you AC unit in your house collects and spits out water....and this isn't the same water that you see your car dripping from condensation on the condenser. The water from the AC unit in your house is from the de-humidifier used to lower the relative-humidity to make it more comfortable.

Dammit man.....your making my head hurt...just stop. PLEASE!!!

The shear ignorance makes me want to vomit.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Thursday, May 21, 2009 10:41 AM

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
Re: A Review and Test: Electric Superchargers.
Thursday, May 21, 2009 10:10 AM
Advice accepted. I will not. Never.
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